I have 14 used bolts from my HG jobber. PM me and we can work out where to send a few.
Head is off, need initial diagnosis
- Thread starter jcardona1
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Interesting gasket condition. I'd guess your head has been off, and that may not be a Toyota gasket. That blob of sealant is literally about 40 times the amount that is supposed to be there in the block/timing cover seam area so it seems like amateur hour some time in its past. The excess overlap of the gasket into the timing opening, the bad fit of the bolt reinforcing metal at that bolt in the rear, the number of fire rings that failed (usually only 1 is actually broken).
Glad you're fixing it! On the bolts, the actual paper manual shows a diagram where to measure if my memory serves - the online one may not. I had the machine shop that did my head work measure them for me because they do it all day long every single day of the week. They pronounced them all in spec - left the manual for them to see measurements.
Take the advice to clean out the bolt holes to heart. A shop vac with a straw taped into one end of the crevice tool is a trick I've used many times to get loose crud out and after you run a tap through them.
DougM
Glad you're fixing it! On the bolts, the actual paper manual shows a diagram where to measure if my memory serves - the online one may not. I had the machine shop that did my head work measure them for me because they do it all day long every single day of the week. They pronounced them all in spec - left the manual for them to see measurements.
Take the advice to clean out the bolt holes to heart. A shop vac with a straw taped into one end of the crevice tool is a trick I've used many times to get loose crud out and after you run a tap through them.
DougM
So am I a big dummy?
I bought beck/arnley bolts for my head gasket job in January? 1/4 the cost.
I bet you guys think I'm asking for trouble eh?
I bought beck/arnley bolts for my head gasket job in January? 1/4 the cost.
I bet you guys think I'm asking for trouble eh?
- Thread starter
- #45
Thanks for the info folks. And thanks Doug, interesting observations. I'm hoping the head is in good shape if that's the case.
I bit the bullet and ordered the ARP studs. $168 shipped from clutchflywheel.com. Now I just need to know what to do about re-torquing, and if it's truly necessary. Pulling the cams two more times doesn't seem like fun.
I started cleaning the block tonight. Back-breaking work, literally. Block looks pretty good, minor pitting. It doesn't look nice and shiny but it feels smooth to the touch. Still need to check for warping.
Also cleaned one of the pistons, five more to go!
I bit the bullet and ordered the ARP studs. $168 shipped from clutchflywheel.com. Now I just need to know what to do about re-torquing, and if it's truly necessary. Pulling the cams two more times doesn't seem like fun.
I started cleaning the block tonight. Back-breaking work, literally. Block looks pretty good, minor pitting. It doesn't look nice and shiny but it feels smooth to the touch. Still need to check for warping.
Also cleaned one of the pistons, five more to go!
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head bolt inspection
My version of the FSM states where to inspect the bolts... a little late but maybe good for someone else.
Eric
My version of the FSM states where to inspect the bolts... a little late but maybe good for someone else.
Eric
- Thread starter
- #47
Good stuff, thanks for posting that! The 'Birfmark' PDF version I have doesn't show this diagram...at least not in sections EM or SS.
Hey Man any updates? How are the ARP bolts working?
- Thread starter
- #49
Not much progress made lately. I hope to finish cleaning the pistons and the block the next couple days. Then I need to check the block for warping. The ARP studs haven't even arrived yet, still waiting on those. Once I know the block is good I'll order everything I need. And once those parts arrive I'll take the head in to get checked and serviced.
alia176
SILVER Star
Jose,
Keep up the good work. Since your block experienced some coolant exposure, take a very close look at that area to see if there are any tracks created by corrosion. Use your finger nail to find the tracks.
My '97 had these tracks and a new HG didn't solve the issue of coolant loss. So, the block had to come out and get decked.
Keep up the good work. Since your block experienced some coolant exposure, take a very close look at that area to see if there are any tracks created by corrosion. Use your finger nail to find the tracks.
My '97 had these tracks and a new HG didn't solve the issue of coolant loss. So, the block had to come out and get decked.
- Thread starter
- #51
Just wanted to follow-up on the retorquing of ARP studs. I asked the techs at ARP and this is the email reply I received this morning:
So. ARP says it's not dependent on the studs but on what's required for the head gasket. Since I'm using an OEM Toyota head gasket, I'm assuming a retorque is not necessary right? Because as we know, the FSM does not make any mention of the OEM head gasket needing a retorque.
Now what???
You'll notice I didn't say the re-torque was dependant on the studs, I said the torque was dependent on the studs. Stonger material requires higher torque specs.
The retorque is based off of compression of the head gasket like the ARP tech says. If you are using a metal headgasket that doesn't compress but very minutely than I would say no retorque, I would retorque a stock gasket. But I would have used the stock headstuds too.
The retorque is based off of compression of the head gasket like the ARP tech says. If you are using a metal headgasket that doesn't compress but very minutely than I would say no retorque, I would retorque a stock gasket. But I would have used the stock headstuds too.
- Thread starter
- #54
Yeah, that's what I gather from his information, and scott's post below...
Gotcha. Too many differing opinions on this subject. Torque for the ARP #209-4702 studs I already know is 80ft lbs in 3 steps following Toyota's tightening sequence.
So you'd retorque a stock gasket with stock head bolts? Interesting, I know the FSM doesn't call for this. And how would you do it in that case? The FSM doesn't give you a torque value and instead calls for two 90º sweeps of the stock head bolts....?
I know it won't hurt to do a reqtorque after it's been driven a few miles but man that's a lot of work. Need to remove the intake, throttle body cables, throttle body, spark plugs wires, valve cover, distributor, and both camshafts. That's hours of work
No I wouldn't retorque with stock gasket and stock bolts, I would retorque with stock gasket and "some" ARP bolts especially if I was going FI.
The thought behind needing to retorque is:
As a block and head heat up and expand they will compress a headgasket between them and if the headgasket is made of a material like the stock gasket, this expansion compresses the headgasket more than the force of the initial head bolt torque you now have loose bolts/studs. If you pick a bolt or stud that goes for ultimate hardness it will be stronger, it will produce a higher clamping force, but it will not have the elasticity like a stock bolt to account for the change in thickness. So you need to retorque it.
Rule of thumb - Metal headgasket, decked block and head, high strength fasteners, because the metal headgasket won't compress like a fiber gasket
- Stock like headgasket, better at sealing slight imperfections in block or head, but need a "stretchier" bolt
Hope that makes sense.
I am sure you will be fine, just torque it down to 80ft/lbs and drive it. These trucks aren't producing a lot of cylinder pressure the timing advance isn't super high you aren't adding a bunch of boost, it looks like the ARP studs you picked are not some of the super hard studs like their L19 so I don't think it will be as big of an issue.
The thought behind needing to retorque is:
As a block and head heat up and expand they will compress a headgasket between them and if the headgasket is made of a material like the stock gasket, this expansion compresses the headgasket more than the force of the initial head bolt torque you now have loose bolts/studs. If you pick a bolt or stud that goes for ultimate hardness it will be stronger, it will produce a higher clamping force, but it will not have the elasticity like a stock bolt to account for the change in thickness. So you need to retorque it.
Rule of thumb - Metal headgasket, decked block and head, high strength fasteners, because the metal headgasket won't compress like a fiber gasket
- Stock like headgasket, better at sealing slight imperfections in block or head, but need a "stretchier" bolt
Hope that makes sense.
I am sure you will be fine, just torque it down to 80ft/lbs and drive it. These trucks aren't producing a lot of cylinder pressure the timing advance isn't super high you aren't adding a bunch of boost, it looks like the ARP studs you picked are not some of the super hard studs like their L19 so I don't think it will be as big of an issue.
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