Head Gasket toast- need advice

[Andrewsreef]

So, what you are saying is I have made all of this up as that is what "hypochondriacs" do.

"That makes you the 3rd bean counting hypochondriac that I've known. Is it contagious"

May I ask whay you do for a living???????

I had responed but I realize now it is not worth it. People like you get a rise out of ridiculing others. Not worth it to respond.

Truck should be fine now, I will post the results when I get it back.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Andrewsreef]

1. excellent summary B, but a lawyer would use paragraph numbers and would letter the indented subparagraphs so they would be easier to reference during oral submissions. Actually I think Andrew may be a lawyer. He sure worries like one... I really do not think I worry like a lawyer. Just do not like to drive a truck with only 79K that originally cost 50K and has problems like I have never seen before. I have done what I consider normal maintance on veichles and have got over 140K on them with little to no problems. I am new to all the problems with this truck.

2. landtank will be proud of him if it turns out this was the second preventative maintenance head gasket replacement. I do not think that will be the case. If oil and coolant leaks are normal for this truck, I will sell it.

3. A few questions for andrew

a. did you ever figure out if you had an airleak in the intake chamber from the crack causing you to run lean (and ping)? Yes, we looked at it closely and determined it was not leaking that we could tell. While it is appart, I replaced it just to make sure I am not in this thing again.

b. why are you running 93 octane? Did i miss a post where this is recommended? I run on 87. I thought it was a bad idea to run on anything else. I started running 87 and the knocking is worse. I have 87 in it now.

c. I seem to remember you were certain you saw red coolant on the head/block seam before. Did this go away? Was it the same placxe as the oil or elsewhere. Yes, it went away when the old mechanic put some sort of Chevy stop leak/anti- electrollisis stuff in the radiator.

d. the place where you describe the oil leak is also where oil might end up if it leaked out of the PCV grommit seal or PCV hose due to positive crankcase pressure. Have you replaced your PCV hoses? Mine were very dry and cracked and so I replaced them. I replaced this myself and it is not leaking at all. Definatley leaking from the head/block seam as I have seen it come out while under the truck.

e. have you tested your fuel pump and fuel pump regulator? My first mechanic did this early on and it was "normal". Not sure now but may need to look into it down the road.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Beowulf]

>> May I ask whay you do for a living??????? <<

Yes, you may. I slay dragons and bad guys.

I wasn't trying to ridicule you; just trying to get you to calm down and think logically about the issues with your truck, the repairs that you've made, the recommendations from professionals, and your plan of attack. It will help if you'll loosen up and look at life and vehicle ownership with a little levity.

I believe Robbie and C-Dan advised you that the oil leaks you described (valve cover, timing chain cover, and head/block) were likely symptoms of positive pressure in the crankcase. At some point you're going to need to diagnose this problem if, in fact, you have excessive pressure.

I believe several have advised you that the pinging is a fuel delivery issue. You're going to need to diagnose this problem as it is unlikely a new head gasket is going to resolve this issue.


>> I started running 87 and the knocking is worse. I have 87 in it now. <<

I hope this was a typo or you're really going to confuse everyone.

I also updated the original list to include the pixie dust in the radiator.

-B-

 

[cruiserdan]

I heard that the Wulf was some kind of computer greek or something..



You have aparently not spend too much time on the board or you would have recognized the group's collective sick humour some time ago.......


The board is equal opportunity, everyone gets light hearted darts tossed at them.

 

[NorCalDoug]

Andrew...dude...take a deep breath...
You're gonna get MUCH more useful information here than you will on either of those playskool Lexus boards where you had been hanging out in -- you should know that by now.

Work through the issues with your rig, one thing at a time. Take the good advice you're getting from Christo, Robbie, C-Dan, Beowulf and others -- hopefully you can get your rig running the way you want.

Sucks for you, but I think you ended up with a very neglected rig. The "mechanic"/sales guy you got it from really did you a disservice.

I hope Frances doesn't beat on you too much in FL.

 

[Beowulf]

>> I heard that the Wulf was some kind of computer greek or something.. <<

I taught Babbage everything he knew.

-B-

 

[Andrewsreef]

Well, we closed early today so I got a chance to see the truck taken apart. I got the gasket so that is cool. One thing I did notice looking at the engine. The cams and lifters all looked clean. No sign of sludge. The head was not back yet so I did not get to see it.

I did look at the block and tops of the pistons. There was a lot of carbon on the tops of the pistons. Black powder and some flaky. To my uneducated eye, it did not look to good. All of the pistons seemed to have it evenly. They said they would clean it before assembly. The old intake had some carbon looking stuff in it also. This makes me wonder if I caused the buildup of carbon running the the 93 octane gas or if like others have said, I have a fuel delivery problem?

Anyway, we will see how it goes.

Andrew

 

[Beowulf]

>> Black powder and some flaky. To my uneducated eye, it did not look to good. <<

I'm guessing your mechanic told you the carbon was normal for any engine with 80k miles?

What are you having done to the head?

-B-

 

[Andrewsreef]

He said most look like that when they pull them down. He did not say it was good or bad. I thought it looked bad but not sure what they are supposed to look like.

The head is being pressure tested and checked to see if it needs surfacing.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[semlin]

OK Andrew, even if you are a hypochondriac your truck is also sick (unless you have Munchhausen by Proxy). To summarize, you have had the following symptoms on your supposedly low mileage truck:

-a completely blocked EGR system at 70k miles
-cracked intake manifold (likely indicating someone (prob not a Lexus dealer) has had it off meaning either your manifold needed cleaning at before 70k (unlikely), there was a prior problem with your EGR requiring access to the VSV (fairly unlikely), or someone needed to pull the head)
-wiring harness problem (possibly indicating someone has had the head off and disturbed the harness)
-persistent pinging
-new rad at 70k miles
-leaking valve cover
-leaking timing chain cover gasket
-fluid leak at rear of head fixed by radgunk
-oil leak at side of head
-sludge in valve cover

That is ten different symptoms that are all fairly uncommon for a truck with your mileage and some very unusual. It is hard to see a common denominator in there. I think l have commented before that your problems sound pretty normal for 170k. If I haven't already suggested this before, here are my next suggestions:

1. Check the engine serial number and make sure it belongs to this truck.
2. I think a 97 has the vin# stickers on body parts. See if they match.
3. Take it to a body shop and get an opinion on whether its been painted/repaired or worse.
4. Get the Lexus service history for this truck pulled. Look for mileage discrepencies. Also see if your state can give you records about whether the vehicle was unregistered/uninsured for a period of time.

 

[Beowulf]

>> (unless you have Munchhausen by Proxy) <<

I guess you know which one gets *my* vote.

MBP Situational Suspicion Indicators
Difference between reported history and what is seen, or what makes sense physically.
Problem does not respond to treatment as expected.
Problem appears to originate only in association with suspected perpetrator’s presence.
Problem disappears or begins to improve when suspected victim is separated from suspected perpetrator.
Problem resumes after suspected perpetrator is told suspected victim has recovered, is improving, or is soon to be released from the facility, program, course of treatment, etc. - OR problem resumes shortly after suspected victim goes home, treatment is discontinued, etc.
Unexplained symptoms, illness, or death of other nuclear or extended family members.
A pattern of "Usual MBP Perpetrator Characteristics".
Suspected MBP perpetrator behavior that appears to be consistent with exaggeration and/or fabrication and/or induction of physical and/or psychological-behavioral problems in the suspected victim.



Relax Andy, we're just having a little fun at your expense.

-B-

 

[Andrewsreef]

Good point on the engine serial #. I will check that out!!!!

The Carfax showed nothing unusual. However, that does not mean it did not get a different engine. Car fax showed one owner that purchased the truck at lease end. Then shortly after sold it. I will have to read it again to be sure of all details. I have always felt it was odd that they sold it not to long after lease purchase. Very good point on the engine #s. I will look.

The Lexus dealer was of little help. I had them pull a history when I first started having problems. They said they had record of it only until 35k. The timing of that was reasonable with the mileage at the time I got it. Not able to tell for sure.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[cruiserdan]

The cylinder head should have a VIN-tag riveted to the RH front corner. That tag should match the VIN of the truck. The engine block serial number will not match to the VIN. A Lexus dealer will be able to go to Dealer Daily and pull up the vehicle record. That record will show the engine serial number that was originally installed in the truck. I can do it for Cruisers but not 450's.



D-

 

[firetruck41]

He said most look like that when they pull them down. He did not say it was good or bad. I thought it looked bad but not sure what they are supposed to look like.

The head is being pressure tested and checked to see if it needs surfacing.

Thanks

Andrew

I don't know that it's bad to have the head resurfaced, but IIRC according to Toyota if the head is warped it should be pressed (?) straight, hydraulically. This is according to an old post I'm recalling, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[cruiserdan]

The factory's position on cylinder head warpage is that it should be less than a number that I can't pull out of me arse at the moment and if the warpage exceedes that ammount the head is to be replaced. There is NO recommendation of any kind regarding surfacing the head. Either it is within limits or it gets replaced. Under no conditions is resurfacing allowed.


On the other hand, practical experience indicates that a modest ammount (chime in here Robbie) can be removed to clean things up.

 

[landtank]

.010 if I remember Robbies post is ideally the most

 

[Beowulf]

From a prior post by C-Dan


I realise that I am chiming in a bit late here, but I have been out of town. Toyota does not endorse surfacing of the cylinder head on a 1FZ in any case.

The book states:
Maximum warpage cylinder block side .15mm, manifold side .10mm
"If warpage is greater than maximum, replace the cylinder head "

Dan


.10mm = .00394" (Intake manifold side)
.15mm = .00590" (Engine block side)

Robbie has stated several times that he milled the head on his 4.7L 1FZ-FE. He said .025" (once he posted .020" but that may have been a typo.)

I couldn't find any post by Robbie stating the factory recommendations. I believe the above quote by Dan was the only time we've seen that informaton.

Scamper (Tom) had his head milled by the Toyota dealership when he blew a head gasket a while back.

-B-

 

[Rich]

Heat straightening would be my first choice if I had to deal with a warp 1fze aluminum head. The head is bolted to a rigid fixture, shimmed as necessary, and cooked in an oven in order to eliminate all or as much of the warp as possible. This will minimize any further required machining.

 

[Andrewsreef]

The cylinder head should have a VIN-tag riveted to the RH front corner. That tag should match the VIN of the truck. The engine block serial number will not match to the VIN. A Lexus dealer will be able to go to Dealer Daily and pull up the vehicle record. That record will show the engine serial number that was originally installed in the truck. I can do it for Cruisers but not 450's.

Thank you CDAN and others. I will check this out and see. I will also call Lexus next week after this Hurricane leaves us alone!!

Thanks

Andrew

 

[robbie]

Andrew I think you need to get another Mcechanic or maybe he is just a Tech. Your mechanic should be able to determine if the head needs work or not just by cleaning it up and using a true bar. He also stated he did not want to do this job but is. I personally would be scared that all will go OK. Is your person that is working on your truck able to determine if the bores are OK or does he need a second opinion, If so you are in trouble. I have seen no need on any head to pressure test. If you are the only cruiser in town then It would take a speical plate to pressure test the head, which I am betting the Mechanist will not have(usually it will take a plate designed for the head). The machine shop at best is going to clean it up and use a true bar on it and charge a easy 100 bucks, good luck.
Yes in previous thread I believe I have stated that the head should be replaced as if you mill the surface you will change the mechanical timeing of the valves opeing and closing. That is why toyota says to replace the head if it is out of specs. If the block is out of specs you will have to have the engine removed and striped so the machine shop can mill the deck. Heating and pressing the head to flaten the head takes special tools(high dollar stuff)Most small town machine shops will not have the equipment.
So cam timing stuff, by milling the head you will decrease the distance between the head and block, which causes the mechanical timing to retard sightly(open later). By retarding timeing you will increase horse power and loose torque (I believe this is how it goes). If you advance timeing you will gain torque and loose HP. I do not have my notes on this with me so it may be the other way. So why is toyota against this milling the head, you will change the specs and may change emissions. what are the benifits of Milling the head, increase compression, which increases Hp and Torque. I believe the little bit that can be done is OK, .010 is not giong to change a whole lot in the timeing of the engine, It will increase compression from 9 to maybe 9.25 or so. Not much but you will notice the difference, expecially if the combustion chamber is cleaned up of the carbon, off the clyinder wall and piston.
I personally have two engines that I have rebuilt, both with milled heads one with .020 and the other 025. I returned the mechanical timeing to stock on the one (the .025) and the other I left alone. I feel (but have not dynoed) the one with .020 has more HP where the .025 one (which has the ported and polished head) has more torque and hp. both give excelent fuel milage until I have my foot on the skinny pedal too much. I do wish there was a adjustable cam gear and then this head milling would be OK and you could set the Mech time to what you wanted . I have not seen any bad stuff to date (both over 25k miles), both run strong and work great. I would do this in a hearbeat if I was rebuilding for customers that wanted this combo. later robbie