Builds GXOR or Bust! GX470 w KDSS Build

[OffRte66]

What is this kdss manual droop switch you speak of?

I was researching some more in regards to a KDSS switch and found this:

I did find something interesting in my search to see if the AVS was connected to KDSS. Apparently KDSS is disabled at low speeds (less than 12-15mph, not clear), but active above this. This creates a stiffer ride on uneven surfaces, think fast but rocky trails or uneven washboards. This effect gets amplified by a lift because of the KDSS sawybar preload with the lift. One of the members disconnected the harness from the KDSS accumulator and this softened up the ride above 12-15 mph.

I lifted my truck with coilovers this past weekend and can confirm that I notice more harshness on the potholes around here. This was not the case with my old 4runner with a very similar setup.

Toyota-4Runner.org

The Largest 4Runner Community in the World

www.toyota-4runner.org

Seems like they're on to something simple and DIY when it comes to regulating what KDSS does manually.

Now I am confused as to what KDSS is doing.. Before reading this, I thought KDSS went into "stiff" mode post 12mph. Can anyone clarify?

--<OffRte66>--

 

[rommelrommel]

I was researching some more in regards to a KDSS switch and found this:



Seems like they're on to something simple and DIY when it comes to regulating what KDSS does manually.

Now I am confused as to what KDSS is doing.. Before reading this, I thought KDSS went into "stiff" mode post 12mph. Can anyone clarify?

--<OffRte66>--

Maybe if you think of it the other way, KDSS enables over 12mph and unplugging the module stops it from doing so?
if it’s that simple I wonder why blackgate customs has been promising this thing for so long. Maybe it’s just access to the factory connectors like some posts suggest.

 

[OffRte66]

Maybe if you think of it the other way, KDSS enables over 12mph and unplugging the module stops it from doing so?
if it’s that simple I wonder why blackgate customs has been promising this thing for so long. Maybe it’s just access to the factory connectors like some posts suggest.

Good question.. Blackgate customs has been on this for a while. A simple harness and switch doesnt seem that complicated.

Hey, big Thanks for that! Looks like theres a whole bunch more reading to do..

 

[rommelrommel]

well, you are not the only one. thanks for letting me know my other one out there.

2011 fj rear, oem elocked and modify with kdss.

I was wondering, what did you do for airbag perches?

 

[rommelrommel]

Good question.. Blackgate customs has been on this for a while. A simple harness and switch doesnt seem that complicated.

Hey, big Thanks for that! Looks like theres a whole bunch more reading to do..

i talked to the guy that was originally doing this for blackgate, he’s dr_kdss on Instagram. All the blackgate switch will do is interrupt the ground to the KDSS module. He’s working on a better switched relay system that will interrupt the signal to the accumulators. However, he’s so far only doing 5th gen 4runner and presumably the 460 is the same. 470 he needs wiring diagrams and probably a test truck.

 

[blackice00]

Just to update you I got all my lift parts installed, notably the PCK, all three Treaty Oak KDSS spacers, and the Ironman KDSS Panhard bar with no fitment issues. Check out my build thread for a pic!

 

[OffRte66]

Soo... Got the lift installed, the panhard bar, UCA's, took off the side steps, mounted the snorkel(had to trim the passenger side ditch light mount), put the switch pod in, put in a Midland mxt275, upgraded the oem lights, and now Im stuck.

I've got a set of Doug Thorley long tube headers and RB-U due to a cracked passenger side manifold that's typical on the 2UZ-FE. If its broke, UPGRADE! But with that I shot myself in the foot($$) on this build, here's why.

I had ordered KDSS spacers from Treaty Oak afternthe ironman4x4 spacer didn't fit, but it turns out there was an inventory error on the site. But I got a VERY quick refund, great service there.

Talked to Kyle and it looks like bad news for KDSS equipped Gx470's. "It took over a year to sell 15 sets, and with that small of volume the price to build new sets right now would necessitate a huge price increase.". So that's that..

I'm in the middle of this build and cant go forward. If anyone knows a solution I am open to suggestions on how to get some spacers, all ears.

I'll give it until Feb. to find some spacers. After that, this rig is for sale if nothing comes up.. I dont have the time to fiddle around and build me some spacers, although I do have friends with cnc.

It is what it is, another dead project.

 

[OffRte66]

I was wondering, what did you do for airbag perches?

I put in the metaltech coil conversion kit with the isolators, my airbags went out after about 4mi offroad..

 

[Jstawgn]

Talked to Kyle and it looks like bad news for KDSS equipped Gx470's. "It took over a year to sell 15 sets, and with that small of volume the price to build new sets right now would necessitate a huge price increase.". So that's that..

I'm in the middle of this build and cant go forward. If anyone knows a solution I am open to suggestions on how to get some spacers, all ears.

I'll give it until Feb. to find some spacers. After that, this rig is for sale if nothing comes up.. I dont have the time to fiddle around and build me some spacers, although I do have friends with cnc.

I run no spacer with 3" lift. The shock still limit the travel. It's not a deal breaker. Even with spacer you should not run long travel rear shock anyway.

Someone at GXOR

run long travel radflo rear shock with KDSS. He claimed to 3D printed something to make it work.

Also somebody else claim they can make the spacer. They been making one for 5th gen. Probably same as black gate custom

 

[OffRte66]

I run no spacer with 3" lift. The shock still limit the travel. It's not a deal breaker. Even with spacer you should not run long travel rear shock anyway.

Someone at GXOR View attachment 2849529View attachment 2849530run long travel radflo rear shock with KDSS. He claimed to 3D printed something to make it work.

Also somebody else claim they can make the spacer. They been making one for 5th gen. Probably same as black gate custom

Wow.. Thank you

I run no spacer with 3" lift. The shock still limit the travel. It's not a deal breaker. Even with spacer you should not run long travel rear shock anyway.

Someone at GXOR View attachment 2849529View attachment 2849530run long travel radflo rear shock with KDSS. He claimed to 3D printed something to make it work.

Also somebody else claim they can make the spacer. They been making one for 5th gen. Probably same as black gate

Holy moly.. Thanks for that, puts a new perspective on things. I was thinking that trailing the KDSS without the spacers on a 3in lift would tax the system into oblivion. Guess I was wrong.

The reason for my doubts were that I'm getting some minor clunking action in the KDSS, before the lift everything was butter. Any idea what I can do to smooth that over, stock bash plates maybe?

Jstawgn, you just saved my build!!

 

[Jstawgn]

The reason for my doubts were that I'm getting some minor clunking action in the KDSS, before the lift everything was butter. Any idea what I can do to smooth that over, stock bash plates maybe?

The skid should not touch that as long it has not been damaged.

I would think its the rubber bushing that goes around the cylinder and also the one that connect to the LCA is worn.
I got mine replaced every other year. Even rockauto carry that bushing.

 

[OffRte66]

The skid should not touch that as long it has not been damaged.

I would think its the rubber bushing that goes around the cylinder and also the one that connect to the LCA is worn.
I got mine replaced every other year. Even rockauto carry that bushing.

That was the fix.. She is as smooth as can be again, no more knocking when I roll by on hardpack dirt and rock. No more left/right clunking either.

You rock! Thank you.

 

[OffRte66]

I had a chance to flex a little after getting everything aligned at a local shop. It ain't much but it's what I got for now.

Seems like my bash plate might have a scratch or two on it.. Might be time for some protection.

Entertaining rock sliders, skid plates.. OH, squirrel!! I also got an email from Treaty Oak, seems like he is thinking about doing another run on spacers.

I'll probably see if I can get in on that batch to see how far we can get into the flex arena on my rig before I have to limit things because of KDSS(limit straps?).

With the Adjustable KDSS friendly Panhard bar from ironman4x4, I dont seem to have much trouble at all without them. Although this is 'just' the biggest rock that will fit under the front bumper w/o damaging it. It's probably not maxed.

Here I'm sitting on the Timbren bumpstop in the passenger rear and all 4 are still on the ground. Btw 3 wheels are hovering over they're respective stops.. No Panhard bar contact.

Hmm.. I might need a front bumper too!

 

[OffRte66]

Well, it snowed last night and she was looking pretty sweet. So here are some pics.

And these 10ply rated "skinnies" (235/80/17) ride great on our N. Az backroads... But I noticed less lateral traction today in the snow on a left hand pitched downhill stretch leading into the canyon I live in.

I was really, really wishing for about another inch worth of tread width on each tire when I was slowly drifting left towards a pretty long and deep ditch. Mind you I went up that same spot earlier on my way out today with zero issues.

Turns out, when it comes to offroad in the snow, downhill is very different!

 

[OffRte66]

I picked up the KDSS control harness from Blackgate Customs..

Everytime I'm doing the 8mi trek back to the ranch, coming in from the rte66 area, I wish silently to myself that the sway bars would just up and disappear. But I dont want to lose the ability to hit the roads and corner nicely.

Did some research, got lots of good info from fellow members(thanks!), and finally found a wiring harness over at Blackgate Customs that might just give me time to think about something else on my way home.

Haven't installed it yet though.. Theres a bunch of clay and mud stuck all over the underbody, I really have to hose that off before I could even access the KDSS "brain" (for lack of a better word).

From SMK Fabrication, I picked up:

GX470 Side Shooter Brackets (Zombie Lights)
SmartTap Lexus Harness - Modified
Diode Dynamics SmartTap LED Flasher Module
Front Turn Signals - 7440/7443 - HP48 (280 lumens)
Rear Turn Signals - 7440/7443 - HP48 (280 lumens)

And the ARB twin Air Compressor got here, suuuper late; Scary late. But that's what I got for opting for the lowest priced unit. I should have just paid the extra $60 and picked it up at a local store.

After all that, the dang thing(for the price..) doesn't come with any air port related goodies at all. Just a threaded hole with a red plastic cap that was wedged into there at the factory. And the description said exactly that.. I must have missed it.

So now I have to look for fittings and options for the air. Consider an onboard air tank for air tool use, new bag of worms.

Too bad that I do not like that the "wifey system" kit manifold hovers over the fuse box on some gx470 specific ARB Air Compressor mounts.

But I do love the idea! I'm gonna have to do some thinking on how to remedy things.. And where to put what so that everything remains accessible.

 

[OffRte66]

White out conditions. Hella yellow high beams on a GX470, pretty good.

Also:
Spot/Flood Ditch Lights
5000k Low Beam
DRL deleted

Looks like it works. Might have to consider dual color ditch lights out here though, maybe some amber switchback low beams too to reduce reflection.

The to-do list never ends.

 

[OffRte66]

After seeing what a beast the ARB CKMTA12 is, I'm not so sure the tray from Apex Overland is going to suffice. Guess we are gonna find out.

Btw, theres the Odessey 24f that I'm running out here on these trails. So far, so good. Even in freezing weather conditions.

I did have to put in a new positive clamp, the original negative is hanging in there pretty good though.

 

[OffRte66]

Update: The KDSS control harness from Blackgate Customs doesn't fit our GX470's.. I already cringed when I saw that the KDSS bash plate was different than in the manual for install. We have 4 pin plugs, the control harness has 6 pins. Yay me..

The website was a little scant regarding the product description, the text mentions a GX but I believe now that it's for the 460's..

Heads up! I got there through a search engine, I should have went through the process from start to finish. Then I would have seen their collections that doesn't include our 470's. Oops.

I did contact them directly to see if we can find a remedy that might work for our 4 pin KDSS systems. Time will tell.

Still figuring out the air compressor install too, just haven't gotten to it yet.

Anyways, keep that rubber side down folks!

 

[OffRte66]

I ended up pulling the trigger and grabbed the Treaty Oak kit so I am covered between that, the Ironman bar (if it works?) and the PCK.
I'm curious to compare the Ironman spacers to the Treaty Oaks.

I'm waiting on the Eibach Pro-Truck kit w/rear adjusters, SPC UCA, KYB strut top hats, and Metaltech extended brake lines to complete the setup.

I also grabbed some of the Firestone bags to try rigging up to the stock air system.
I'm hoping I can get the height sensor dialed in to level out the rear when I load up with gear or tow my 240SX project money-pit.

I'll be watching to see what other KDSS compatible parts you go with. I grabbed some BBG4x4 recovery points and determined they have fitment issues beyond drilling out an extra hole in the frame. Debating if I even want to deal with them or just send it with a fancy front bumper.

So hows the Firestone Air Bags working out for ya?

On the fence over here between the height control delete(stiffer springs, progressives?) or grabbing a pair of air bags and setting them up like you mentioned..

Im a little worried about pinching bags(heard rumors) that go inside the rear could spring, but I did see a nylon/cordoba cover for those helper bags to help things slip. Cant for the life of me find them again.

The other option is to replace the rear bumpstops with an air spring bellow and weld on a perch but I am not sure about the internal bumpstop on these things..

Although the big rigs, when not running sit on their internal stops.. But sitting and no-roading have completely different dynamics.

Anyways, I broke the bottom bolt that keeps the stock compressor from rattling so either way Im half way there!

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[OffRte66]

So.. After waiting a week for Safelite AutoGlass to come out to get the cracked windshield taken care of, I was refused service.

Mind you I mentioned the snorkel/ditch light brackets before hand and they were happy to take my moneys(prepaid $423.15).

Dude came out today in insanely clean and cute little red sneakers.. Think racing shoes? Meaning not dressed for working, at all.

He saw the snorkel/ditch lights, maybe the mud and made up excuses from "I dont want to take the snorkel off." to "My boss doesn't want me doing it.".. Of course all of this after saying he can get someone out in another week because "We still would like your business..".

When I asked for my refund, he told me to take a picture of his phones Safelite App. Because "The authorization number is on there.." so I could "..get it back through your credit card company." Yup! I'm supposed to cancel, instead I asked for a refund from corporate.

What started it was a fix it ticket I got in Williams by some nervous rook at DPS.. I do encounter Sheriffs and Police out here with no problem, had it like this for 2 years!..

Anyways, he said he'd give me a 'warning'. I was all about it, even said "Thank you.".

Turns out you cannot operate the vehicle immediately and you have 5 days before they pull your registration and make you jump through other hoops proving that the vehicle is road worthy. Surprise, surprise.

On top of that,the ticket says I was on the highway which isnt quite true either.. Twas the on ramp(pic). Grr..

Another HAPPY customer over here, all around. Looks like I caught all of the luck on St.Pattys this year..lol

The officer also lied to me about what constitutes a violation in Az after I said it's not in my view. Of course he didnt have a bodycam on either, so there goes that.

Be careful out there, especially in Williams Az. Kothe I believe was his name.. A real stickler that one.

Looks like I am installing cameras for next time so I can fight it. Right now it's my word against his and we all know how that works out. A waste of time.

Long story short, snorkel and ditch lights a no-no at Safelite AutoGlass. And stay out of Williams Az unless everything is perfect on your vehicle. Save yourself some trouble and keep on rolling on the i40.

There are other opportunities in the area.