GX550 & LC250 Tracking Thread

[carboncycles]

I think corporate Toyota takes these situations a bit more seriously than the domestic 3...still saw some dealers trying to flip TRD PROS for 10-15k over msrp.

I told them to pound sand, and I still get calls asking if I'm interested...I politely remind them that customers have long memories.

The 30k markup is encroaching BRaptor and RaptorR markups...saw one Raptor R with over a 70+k markup, and it sold within the day to some dude out in California.

 

[M1911]

As far as I understand, the 5th gen 4Runner is a western hemisphere and LHD-only product. Wouldn't that make sense to move to the Americas?

Certainly not during the 5th gen. The 5th gen shares its frame with the Prado and GX450, so it made sense to keep it on the same production line.

We don’t know what will happen with the 6th gen. If the 6th gen shares its frame with the GX550, Prado, and 250, then it may well make sense to keep the 6th gen on that same line.

Time will tell.

 

[TheLCProject]

Certainly not during the 5th gen. The 5th gen shares its frame with the Prado and GX450, so it made sense to keep it on the same production line.

We don’t know what will happen with the 6th gen. If the 6th gen shares its frame with the GX550, Prado, and 250, then it may well make sense to keep the 6th gen on that same line.

Time will tell.

Regarding the 6th gen..perhaps it's like how the Sequoia was dead until the North American guys suggested that they could basically just enclose the rear of the TNGA-F Tundra and make an SUV. They'll take the Tacoma and SUV-ize it for the US and LatAm market?

You said "shares the frame with the..." Maybe I need to try and find and lay out more details on that but everything I have read on TNGA-F points to the similarity being mostly the fabrication/welding technique and other design and manufacturing principles and less about actual common frames between models. The GC550 Chief Engineer admitted the GX550 and LC Prado/250 frame rails were similar but stopped there and send everything else was mostly unique to the model.

I'm sure others might understand more or differently.

We need a photo after all this talk. Anything new @cruiseroutfit ?

We saw the Underground color on a 2024 4Runner and thought it would look good on the LC Prado/250. Perhaps one day with that off-white roof.

 

[Phillyd2]

Certainly not during the 5th gen. The 5th gen shares its frame with the Prado and GX450, so it made sense to keep it on the same production line.

We don’t know what will happen with the 6th gen. If the 6th gen shares its frame with the GX550, Prado, and 250, then it may well make sense to keep the 6th gen on that same line.

Time will tell.

But if it's based on the Toco as rumor then Japan makes even less sense.

 

[krice118]

Sub $30k LX570 are pretty attractive during the next few years as the craziness ofthe GX550 and new LC (Prado) come to market

 

[M1911]

Regarding the 6th gen..perhaps it's like how the Sequoia was dead until the North American guys suggested that they could basically just enclose the rear of the TNGA-F Tundra and make an SUV.

Um, no. There is no such parallel.

Sequoia sales during the 2020 to 2022 model years ranged from 5,000 to 8,000 vehicle. Those are tiny amounts which made it completely understandable why Toyota considered killing off the model.

In contrast, 4Runner sales for the same period were about 140,000 vehicles per year. Those are very healthy numbers, easily able to make the 4Runner profitable.

You said "shares the frame with the..." Maybe I need to try and find and lay out more details on that but everything I have read on TNGA-F points to the similarity being mostly the fabrication/welding technique and other design and manufacturing principles and less about actual common frames between models.

The frames are similar. They can be adjusted in terms of wheelbase length and strength. The Tundra crew cab has the longest wheelbase. The 250/GX550/Prado probably has the shortest wheelbase.

The GC550 Chief Engineer admitted the GX550 and LC Prado/250 frame rails were similar but stopped there and send everything else was mostly unique to the model.

I find that very, very hard to believe. The 250 and GX550 have the same wheelbase and almost identical overall length. They also have very similar weights and both are SUVs. The GX has higher towing, so the GX frame likely has thicker and/or stronger steel in some places. I suspect that they also share the same track width and probably identical suspension hard points. I suspect the frames of the 250 and GX are very, very similar.

We don’t yet know what the 4Runner will be like. Will it be smaller than the 250? Or more like a low-trim 250? The currently released dimensions show that the 250 and GX 550 are nearly identical in size to the 200. That would be a size increase for the 4Runner. Can the TNGA-F be sized down in wheelbase and track width to make the 6th gen 4Runner closer in size to the 5th gen? All we can do is speculate.

At this point, however, if Toyota was planning to build the 6th gen in the Americas, they would already be building the factory for it in the US or Mexico.

 

[TheLCProject]

I find that very, very hard to believe. The 250 and GX550 have the same wheelbase and almost identical overall length. They also have very similar weights and both are SUVs. The GX has higher towing, so the GX frame likely has thicker and/or stronger steel in some places. I suspect that they also share the same track width and probably identical suspension hard points. I suspect the frames of the 250 and GX are very, very similar.

Good discussion points @M1911

Here's the quote from the GX550 transcribed myself. The paraphrasing earlier was mine but this is the direct quote from Koji's Toyota/Lexus translator.

From a recent interview at the GX550 launch event
Lexus GX550 Chief Engineer: Koji Tsukasaki

Question: When we say the same GA-F platform, does that mean there are carryover components from other vehicles that make their way onto the GX or is it all tweaked for this model?
Answer: So, the main side rails and the major components of the platform itself are obviously shared but there are many unique items exclusively for the GX within the platform.

 

[M1911]

Good discussion points @M1911

Here's the quote from the GX550 transcribed myself. The paraphrasing earlier was mine but this is the direct quote from Koji's Toyota/Lexus translator.

From a recent interview at the GX550 launch event
Lexus GX550 Chief Engineer: Koji Tsukasaki

Question: When we say the same GA-F platform, does that mean there are carryover components from other vehicles that make their way onto the GX or is it all tweaked for this model?
Answer: So, the main side rails and the major components of the platform itself are obviously shared but there are many unique items exclusively for the GX within the platform.

You have to remember that the TNGA-F platform is used for the Tundra, Sequoia, Tacoma, GX 550, and 250. Compared to the Tundra, Sequoia, and Tacoma, I’m sure the GX 550 frame is significantly different. The Tundra and Sequoia are both much longer and heavier than the GX and they have higher tow ratings. The Tacoma is closer in weight and towing, but still has a much longer wheelbase (in crew cab configuration). So of course the GX frame is significantly different from those models.

But the 250 is dimensionally nearly identical to the GX 550 and has very similar suspension design. So I would expect the 250 and GX frames to be very similar.

 

[TheLCProject]

It would take years to setup a new assembly line elsewhere for transfer of model production. And we would have heard about it already in industry documentation.

Is the investment at Guanajuato in 2023 and ongoing construction there adequate to bring in a new line or capacity for 4Runner production? I know you said that 4Runner wouldn't leave Japan production - full stop. Just reading and learning more and came across this.

Obviously the investment is tagged as being for "hybrid Tacoma production" because Toyota surely wouldn't telegraph that the additional $323 million on a $1+ billion plant is for the next generation 4Runner to be produced alongside the Tacoma at Guanajuato. But it could also just be for more Tacoma hybrids as they said. I don't know how far $323 million goes in auto manufacturing.

Toyota announces production of the hybrid Tacoma in Guanajuato - MEXICONOW

The president of Toyota Motor Manufacturing Guanajuato, Francisco Garcia, announced the production of the Tacoma model

mexico-now.com

 

[M1911]

Is the investment at Guanajuato in 2023 and ongoing construction there adequate to bring in a new line or capacity for 4Runner production? I know you said that 4Runner wouldn't leave Japan production - full stop. Just reading and learning more and came across this.

Obviously the investment is tagged as being for "hybrid Tacoma production" because Toyota surely wouldn't telegraph that the additional $323 million on a $1+ billion plant is for the next generation 4Runner to be produced alongside the Tacoma at Guanajuato. But it could also just be for more Tacoma hybrids as they said. I don't know how far $323 million goes in auto manufacturing.

Toyota announces production of the hybrid Tacoma in Guanajuato - MEXICONOW

The president of Toyota Motor Manufacturing Guanajuato, Francisco Garcia, announced the production of the Tacoma model

mexico-now.com

I doubt it. The article said that Taco production will be something like 130k per year. Toyota sells over 100k 4Runners per year in the US, so to transfer 4Runner production that plant would likely need a huge increase in size.

 

[TheLCProject]

Right, so like another nearly billion dollar plant and like Beno said, that'd take several years to build, and the development prototypes are already hitting the roads.

 

[Phillyd2]

I doubt it too, at least in the short term but it would be a very smart move - assuming the logistics works.

 

[tacoshawn]

Update from my discussions with dealers this week. I have a place in line for both GX550 and LC with Longo Lexus & Longo Toyota.

GX550’s are expected to start shipping from Japan in March and arrive for customer deliveries April / early May timeframe.

LC dates are not being shared, yet. But they expect to get target build/ship dates from Toyota in their next round of updates so more information might be coming soon.

For the GX I still had an unfilled Bronco Wildtrak order. So, I didn’t get in the GX550 line as quick as I should have. For GX their best guess (and I’ll respect it is a guess) was a late 2023 model year.

For the LC I had cancelled the Bronco (got tired of waiting and hand wringing about quality and noise level) and was very timely in calling and getting a deposit sent in. Here they think I might just be able to snag a First Edition.

 

[Phillyd2]

Update from my discussions with dealers this week. I have a place in line for both GX550 and LC with Longo Lexus & Longo Toyota.

GX550’s are expected to start shipping from Japan in March and arrive for customer deliveries April / early May timeframe.

LC dates are not being shared, yet. But they expect to get target build/ship dates from Toyota in their next round of updates so more information might be coming soon.

For the GX I still had an unfilled Bronco Wildtrak order. So, I didn’t get in the GX550 line as quick as I should have. For GX their best guess (and I’ll respect it is a guess) was a late 2023 model year.

For the LC I had cancelled the Bronco (got tired of waiting) and was very timely in calling and getting a deposit sent in. Here they think I might just be able to snag a First Edition.

Are you buying both?

 

[tacoshawn]

Fair question, I’ll be buying only one. I was transparent with them I had a foot in both camps. Which ever I don’t get will transition to the next person in line.

I like the GX for towing (a mythical travel trailer I don’t have). We sold our large TT 10 years ago and I would like to have a smaller one again at some point in the future.

I like the LC for my 400-mile round trip to my favorite trout fishing streams in the Sierra Nevada range.

Either will get me where I want to go, with the in-truck gear I carry and handle the conditions I need.

If the LC is noisy my decision will be easy, go with the GX and burn gas. We have a 2023 RX and I love how quiet it is.

 

[tacoshawn]

As we await more information on the LC and for the GX to get into owners hands I’ll share my thought pattern.

GX OT looks very usable off the showroom floor, aggressive tires, E-KDSS, full skids (I believe). Throw on sliders and it will go most anywhere that you can manage with the limited approach/departure angles. Most people will never hit the front or the belly or the rear. The tow rating is fantastic. Lifting it likely is more complicated as some type of Body Control Module (or function) is likely needed to keep the e-shocks and the e-KDSS working in synch. So, keeping the BCM happy may (again MAY) be a challenge. The base models don’t have e-shocks or e-KDSS so maybe a BCM can be swapped out or easily configured to ‘standard’.

The LC, on the other hand, has a better approach angle as-built, looks to have normal shocks, no E-KDSS. Lifting it should be easy, rear springs, coil over/shocks or your choice, adjust the panhard bar and throw some bigger more aggressive tires. Sway bar disconnect should not care about a lift (since you are staying within the original suspension travel anyway on an IFS).

So, will see what happens when people who actually modify get ahold of them. I’m guessing the GX may be ‘use it as is’ for most/many and the LC is the one for people who need more approach/breakover/departure and are gonna mod the truck anyway.

I could make either work for my immediate 95%+ (even 98%+) needs. In my most agressive off roading I managed to hit every skid and my frame sliders on my Tacoma. Ultimately I found that my Tacoma’s limiting factor was break over angle. I found that the next reality was I would consistently drag the rear end entering a steep climb or coming out of a steep decline or going down steps. I dragged the rear even after installing a lift and an aftermarket steel bumper with a relocated hitch. I learned to just let it drag down. So, IF I go the same places as I historically have gone it seems a lift, bigger tires and a rear bumper (that I can drag down obstacles) will be required.

Will be interesting to see if a theme emerges once people can direct compare - GX for turn key, LC for modding.

 

[TWILLY]

As we await more information on the LC and for the GX to get into owners hands I’ll share my thought pattern.

GX OT looks very usable off the showroom floor, aggressive tires, E-KDSS, full skids (I believe). Throw on sliders and it will go most anywhere that you can manage with the limited approach/departure angles. Most people will never hit the front or the belly or the rear. The tow rating is fantastic. Lifting it likely is more complicated as some type of Body Control Module (or function) is likely needed to keep the e-shocks and the e-KDSS working in synch. So, keeping the BCM happy may (again MAY) be a challenge. The base models don’t have e-shocks or e-KDSS so maybe a BCM can be swapped out or easily configured to ‘standard’.

The LC, on the other had, has a better approach angle as-built, looks to have normal shocks, no E-KDSS. Lifting it should be easy, rear springs, coil over/shocks or your choice, adjust the panhard bar and throw some bigger more aggressive tires. Sway bar disconnect should not care about a lift (since you are staying within the original suspension travel anyway on an IFS).

So, will see what happens when people who actually modify get ahold of them. I’m guessing the GX may be ‘use it as is’ for most/many and the LC is the one for people who need more approach/breakover/departure and are gonna mod the truck anyway.

I could make either work for my immediate 95%+ (even 98%+) needs. In my most agressive off roading I managed to hit every skid and my frame sliders on my Tacoma. Ultimately I found that my Tacoma’s limiting factor was break over angle. I found that the next reality was I would consistently drag the rear end entering a steep climbs or coming out of a steep decline or down steps. I’d drag the rear even after installing a lift and an aftermarket steel bumper with a relocated hitch. I learned to just let it drag down. So, IF I go the same places as I historically have gone it seems a lift, bigger tires and a rear bumper (that I can drag down obstacles) will be required.

Will be interesting to see if a theme emerges once people can direct compare - GX for turn key, LC for modding.

I’m hoping that, as a remote tourer, the 250 can receive and stow taller tires, 33s or so, and require no other modification. No lift, no heavy bumpers to carry taller spare tires or extra fuel, no auxiliary fuel tanks displacing spare tires, etc.

 

[krice118]

As we await more information on the LC and for the GX to get into owners hands I’ll share my thought pattern.

GX OT looks very usable off the showroom floor, aggressive tires, E-KDSS, full skids (I believe). Throw on sliders and it will go most anywhere that you can manage with the limited approach/departure angles. Most people will never hit the front or the belly or the rear. The tow rating is fantastic. Lifting it likely is more complicated as some type of Body Control Module (or function) is likely needed to keep the e-shocks and the e-KDSS working in synch. So, keeping the BCM happy may (again MAY) be a challenge. The base models don’t have e-shocks or e-KDSS so maybe a BCM can be swapped out or easily configured to ‘standard’.

The LC, on the other hand, has a better approach angle as-built, looks to have normal shocks, no E-KDSS. Lifting it should be easy, rear springs, coil over/shocks or your choice, adjust the panhard bar and throw some bigger more aggressive tires. Sway bar disconnect should not care about a lift (since you are staying within the original suspension travel anyway on an IFS).

So, will see what happens when people who actually modify get ahold of them. I’m guessing the GX may be ‘use it as is’ for most/many and the LC is the one for people who need more approach/breakover/departure and are gonna mod the truck anyway.

I could make either work for my immediate 95%+ (even 98%+) needs. In my most agressive off roading I managed to hit every skid and my frame sliders on my Tacoma. Ultimately I found that my Tacoma’s limiting factor was break over angle. I found that the next reality was I would consistently drag the rear end entering a steep climb or coming out of a steep decline or going down steps. I dragged the rear even after installing a lift and an aftermarket steel bumper with a relocated hitch. I learned to just let it drag down. So, IF I go the same places as I historically have gone it seems a lift, bigger tires and a rear bumper (that I can drag down obstacles) will be required.

Will be interesting to see if a theme emerges once people can direct compare - GX for turn key, LC for modding.

What are e-shocks? To my knowledge the E- KDSS is not related to the shocks directly.

Are you talking about the AVS?

 

[VWEeplusa]

Got to check out the GX Premium+ at a local Lexus dealer this past weekend, after having locked in my deposit earlier in the week. Not allowed to drive, as it was a prototype model although it had around 4500 mi on it already.

I've been told the first GX's are to be on the next allocation list for the dealer coming 2/21/24, and phone calls will start to those deposits who have model / color / set-ups to match. I'm on the list for an Overtrail+ in either white or atomic silver.

Impressions:

• It's pretty big. There was a used '23 LX600 30 feet away in same atomic silver color and they felt identical in size, w the GX sitting higher. Sitting in both of them back to back, the GX is a bit more sparse but that makes for more roominess than the LX.
• Even with only 8.7 and 8.9 inch clearance on the various models, still feels like it really sits high. Felt the same height as getting into my Rivian R1S while its set on high. That's good.
• It's a little more minimalist inside than I expected, acknowledging it's the base model +. The two tone seat finish goes a long way to making it seem more sophisticated and worthy of its price tag and fit and finish.
• Sight lines are good. Comfortable to sit in. Roomy. Everything laid out intuitively.
• Feels identical to my 200 series in terms of 'trunk' capacity, but w no more side fold 3rd row seats, its probably a bit bigger.
• Overall, it held no surprises as it's been documented thoroughly online the past few months, but it certainly ratcheted up my anticipation to get mine.

 

[M1911]

It's pretty big. There was a used '23 LX600 30 feet away in same atomic silver color and they felt identical in size, w the GX sitting higher. Sitting in both of them back to back, the GX is a bit more sparse but that makes for more roominess than the LX.

A lot of people here keep on claiming that the GX550 and LC250 are the perfect size because they are smaller than the 200. But they’re not — they are just about the exact same size as the 200. They aren’t GX460/Prado sized.