Grounding a Battery

[LandCruiserPhil]

LiFePo4 is not the same as the other Lithium batteries. Completely safe.

Any issues or concerns with heat? Not uncommon to see 150°+ inside the cabs in Arizona

 

[RFB]

Any issues or concerns with heat? Not uncommon to see 150°+ inside the cabs in Arizona

I know you not asking me, BUT I spoke to several of my "friends" over in australia and they are running the relion no problem or no worries as of yet. which Is why I got one. now 2 batteries or 3 thats my main issue today with 2 AGMs running through a ML-ACR taking care of the LC and the winch and the bussman 100amp box under the hood, all the lithium would be doing is USB,dometic 65 ARB twin and a 700watt PSW inverter overkill? or why not.

 

[Shoredreamer]

Has a lot to do with the BMS in the battery. There have been people for sure dropping LiFePo4 in the engine bay here and in other countries. ReLIon is spec’d for charging up to 140 and discharge to 180. @RFB has the battery I want, low temp. You for sure cannot charge below the bms cutoff, which on his is 4*. High temps have more to do with lifespan. All of this completely safe temp range.

 

[Bambusiero]

Do these batteries live in an insulated case and automatically turn on a low wattage heater to stay above the minimum operational temperature?

 

[RFB]

Do these batteries live in an insulated case and automatically turn on a low wattage heater to stay above the minimum operational temperature?

YES THATS WHAT THE TECH TELLS ME, i SPOKE WITH RELION BEFORE BUYING my bad for a ll caps, no glasses on

 

[RFB]

So where and what size battery do you put in the back? I’m thinking about doing the same thing

I searched and researched lithium (for the weight savings) and the Batllebornborn Battery guysoffered me an Ambassadorship, But I was worried about cold and heat, this reLIon 100AHLT is a low temp(internal heater,runs off battery itself) and can take the type of heat(not arizona) I deal with so I ponied up (as i do) . Now Im so on the fence about keeping 2 odyessey extremes (what I have now) But with the lithium in the mix, I wouldnt NEED 2 AGMs up front at all. and I could lose 80 lbs getting rid of the odyessey 100AH. If I do that I will have a 70AH as starter/winch Battery and the ltihum would would deal with all the rest running off a redarc1225D and monitored thru a victron AND I already upgraded my alterntor to a 150 sequoia alternaotr last year or year before BUT then went ahead and bought a SBS 270amp american made (denso internal) alternator SO I have gone way overbound and Im trying to figure out what exactly I need and will be doing. Im doing that as I speak. or type.

 

[Bambusiero]

Dual battery location - "out of the box".

There's an unused volume of space on the Landcruiser that has always bugged me as a possible 2nd battery location, but the rectangular size / shape of standard lead acid batteries prevents it.
Lithium batteries, on the other hand, are made up of lots and lots of little round cells anyway, and might be configured to fit into an odd shaped space.

2 spaces, actually. Enough for significant Ah storage.
1) Under vehicle, between fame and rocker panel, driver side.
2) Under vehicle, between crossmember and gastank, fame and transfer case, center.

Pro:
- Free space, unused for anything else (except maybe rock slider braces).
- Does not block any normal maintenance access.
- No engine compartment taken.
- Not subject to engine compartment heat.
- No interior space taken.
- Not subject to interior summer greenhouse heat.
- Ideal weight / balance / center of gravity situation - low and centered.
- Good airflow available.
- Strong frame for mounting.

Con:
- Custom mounting bracketry / shielding / container needed.
- Custom cabling needed.
- Worst case heating - summer re-radiated from roadway. (maybe 130F 55C worst case?)
- Secondary heating - diluted engine compartment airflow.

What do you think?

 

[RFB]

Dual battery location - "out of the box".

There's an unused volume of space on the Landcruiser that has always bugged me as a possible 2nd battery location, but the rectangular size / shape of standard lead acid batteries prevents it.
Lithium batteries, on the other hand, are made up of lots and lots of little round cells anyway, and might be configured to fit into an odd shaped space.

2 spaces, actually. Enough for significant Ah storage.
1) Under vehicle, between fame and rocker panel, driver side.
2) Under vehicle, between crossmember and gastank, fame and transfer case, center.

Pro:
- Free space, unused for anything else (except maybe rock slider braces).
- Does not block any normal maintenance access.
- No engine compartment taken.
- Not subject to engine compartment heat.
- No interior space taken.
- Not subject to interior summer greenhouse heat.
- Ideal weight / balance / center of gravity situation - low and centered.
- Good airflow available.
- Strong frame for mounting.

Con:
- Custom mounting bracketry / shielding / container needed.
- Custom cabling needed.
- Worst case heating - summer re-radiated from roadway. (maybe 130F 55C worst case?)
- Secondary heating - diluted engine compartment airflow.

What do you think?

When you say "custom shielding" what do you mean? and custom cabling, I think anyone that works on thier cruiser, specifically the wiring should have a roll of welding wire made in Meria on hand and a hydraulic crimper form HF they work and you can make the wiring perfecto

 

[RFB]

@LandCruiserPhil they are telling me it will shut itslef down for charging at 140F and will take a charge again at 125F

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

@LandCruiserPhil they are telling me it will shut itslef down for charging at 140F and will take a charge again at 125F

Not a battery for AZ. You park in the sun to grab some solar and it will be difficult to stay below that.

 

[Shoredreamer]

@Hyup has been doing some engine bay temp testing on his setup maybe he’ll chime in.

 

[Bambusiero]

When you say "custom shielding" what do you mean?

Only that stuff down there needs protection from rocks, mud, snow, etc., so that would have to be built in.

 

[Bambusiero]

Dual battery location - "out of the box".

There's an unused volume of space on the Landcruiser...

Unfortunately, this idea remains an un-realizable dream. Too bad.

LiFePo4 batteries from companies like ReLiON and Battle Born are only making car battery sized units.
Very nice, but won't work.
Just doesn't fit the odd shaped space down there.
Marketed to directly replace lead-acid deep cycle batteries at about 1/3 the weight and 10x usable life.

You can't just run smaller batteries in parallel - all the cells inside have to be managed together.
ReLiON is coming out with a great new BMS technology that communicates across many batteries in a larger system to handle that need, but the basic unit is still 120Ah - car battery sized.

Now - if they were to make something like a 1/4 battery "slice" unit, 30Ah and about 2 1/2" thick each - then you could really do it.
Pack 'em in odd unused places around the vehicle - keep adding until you have enough capacity.

 

[Bambusiero]

Regarding upper temperature limit -
From Why Battery Management Systems are Important in Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries

Lead-acid hates high temperatures too, BTW.

 

[Lx470 forever]

Unfortunately, this idea remains an un-realizable dream. Too bad.

LiFePo4 batteries from companies like ReLiON and Battle Born are only making car battery sized units.
Very nice, but won't work.
Just doesn't fit the odd shaped space down there.
Marketed to directly replace lead-acid deep cycle batteries at about 1/3 the weight and 10x usable life.

You can't just run smaller batteries in parallel - all the cells inside have to be managed together.
ReLiON is coming out with a great new BMS technology that communicates across many batteries in a larger system to handle that need, but the basic unit is still 120Ah - car battery sized.

Now - if they were to make something like a 1/4 battery "slice" unit, 30Ah and about 2 1/2" thick each - then you could really do it.
Pack 'em in odd unused places around the vehicle - keep adding until you have enough capacity.

I know its an old discussion. But you can easy fill every space in your car.

I use ultrabatt cells. They are 11.5cm x 3cm x 9cm. And 0.4kg. And 6ah (14ah compared to lead accid)

I use them for years already and never got a problem with them.

You can stick them everywhere and connect them together to get as much AH as you like.

 

[Bambusiero]

I know its an old discussion. But you can easy fill every space in your car.

I use ultrabatt cells. They are 11.5cm x 3cm x 9cm. And 0.4kg. And 6ah (14ah compared to lead accid)

I use them for years already and never got a problem with them.

You can stick them everywhere and connect them together to get as much AH as you like.

Very interesting. I wonder how they take care of the cell balancing problem. I'll have to read up on this.

 

[Lx470 forever]

I have 0 problem with that. You just connect them together and all is fine. They last around 10 years. So much more than a normal battery. Also different cells in different locations in the car work fine.

I can start the entire car with 5 cells without a problem.


I have 10 cells. But tested how much was needed to actually start the car.

 

[Bambusiero]

Do you connect the Ultrabatt bank straight to the charging system in parallel with a regular starting battery?
Or - some kind of battery management system to separate them?

 

[Lx470 forever]

And about grounding. When i connected these batteries in my car as extra on top of my normal battery something weird happened.

I grounded all to chassis and back to the main battery and also some to the engine.

And as of magic my engine started to run much smoother.

 

[Lx470 forever]

Do you connect the Ultrabatt bank straight to the charging system in parallel with a regular starting battery?
Or - some kind of battery management system to separate them?

Just straight to the regular starting/ charging system.