Getting my butt kicked trying to CA smog my 60!

[Gadjeep]

Bought this truck 2years ago with it newly smogged, I have driven it as a weekend rig after putting a lift, tires, knuckles and a tune up into it and now it repays me by GROSSLY failing smog twice.

The first test I took without touching the engine because it seemingly runs fine. 160# across all cylinders, starts right up and idles well, etc and these are the numbers we got:

Idle 725 rpm
Co2 11.20
O2 .50
HC 434 max is 150
CO 5.36 max is 1.20

2500rpm
CO2 1230
O2 .10
HC 129 (actually a passing #) max 180
CO 4.37 max 120
The guy is only doing a two speed idle test so no nox reading.

He said its probably the cat and it looked a little old so I replaced that, then I did the lean drop adjustment for the idle mixture, THEN I tested and found that my egr is working but both of the vsv that control the air injection are not working so it has been in bypass the entire time. My buddy let me borrow his vsv for the test after we verified operation and Now I'm thinking I'm golden but look at these numbers:

Idle 587
Co2 11.70
O2 .80
HC 1135 !!!!!!!!!
CO 4.57

2500 rpm
Co2 12.70
O2 .10
HC 127 again passing wtf?
CO 3.89

So I head home dejected and while removing the vsvs I notice that the air rail hose looks odd. Come to find out, the check valve rusted to hell, not working and now the air was still not getting into the rail. Upon further exam I find there is a significant crack in the head pipe but thankfully not the manifold.

So I'm slowly working through these issues but the astronomical HC number is blowing me away. It doesn't seem like I could be that far out in the woods with my idle mixture adjustment. It was something like 4 turns out when I started and its more like 2 and change now.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading this manifesto of a damn post!

 

[TahoeFJ60]

How about having a cruiser pro look at it, like Gary at Mudrak in Sonoma or Georg at Valley Hybrids in Stockton. Georg got my 82 to pass

 

[Fj moneypit]

Sounds like you checked most of this already but what the heck.

http://www.smogtips.com/failed-high-hydrocarbons-HC.cfm

 

[amauri]

Have u checked ign timing?

 

[Pin_Head]

HC comes commonly from misfiring and misfiring at idle is often due to a lean condition caused by a manifold vacuum leak. The fact that there is low HC at 2,500 is consistent with this.

Co comes from running rich. Check the easy stuff first, like stuck choke and clogged air cleaner.

 

[Gadjeep]

HC comes commonly from misfiring and misfiring at idle is often due to a lean condition caused by a manifold vacuum leak. The fact that there is low HC at 2,500 is consistent with this.

Co comes from running rich. Check the easy stuff first, like stuck choke and clogged air cleaner.

Thanks! I'll be sure to check after I get the other things buttoned up. I always though the hc came from unburned hydrocarbons meaning a rich condition.

 

[TobyB]

It does come from hydrocarbons, but, counterintuitively, a lean miss will do it too- that unfired fuel, too
lean to ignite, is pumped out the tailpipe too. And unlike the too- rich mixture, it hasn't had ANY
chance to get burned up...

t

 

[Pin_Head]

HC is hydrocarbons which are not yet oxidized (burned). They usually come from misfiring; either electrical or lean mixture. Ignition problems usually are more problematic at high RPM than at idle. Since you only have HC problems at idle, this is most commonly due to a lean conditions, which for a 2F is often due to a manifold vacuum leak. If the catalyst was bad, you would expect this to show up at 2,500 RPM where the cat has to deal with much more gas Extremely elevated HC can also cause high CO as it gets partially burned in the catalyst. Your HC isn't that high that you would expect to also exceed the CO specs, so you may have more than 1 problem: a misfire at idle and a rich mixture. This isn't all written in stone and there are other possibilities. HC can also come from a burned exhaust valve or a valve that isn't seating properly, so if you don't find a manifold leak, check the compression. It is just based on my experience as a former CA smog tech and mechanic.

 

[Gadjeep]

HC is hydrocarbons which are not yet oxidized (burned). They usually come from misfiring; either electrical or lean mixture. Ignition problems usually are more problematic at high RPM than at idle. Since you only have HC problems at idle, this is most commonly due to a lean conditions, which for a 2F is often due to a manifold vacuum leak. If the catalyst was bad, you would expect this to show up at 2,500 RPM where the cat has to deal with much more gas Extremely elevated HC can also cause high CO as it gets partially burned in the catalyst. Your HC isn't that high that you would expect to also exceed the CO specs, so you may have more than 1 problem: a misfire at idle and a rich mixture. This isn't all written in stone and there are other possibilities. HC can also come from a burned exhaust valve or a valve that isn't seating properly, so if you don't find a manifold leak, check the compression. It is just based on my experience as a former CA smog tech and mechanic.

Thanks very much for sharing your wisdom! Georg spoke very highly about you when I asked him about this issue. I'm going to work on it again Saturday and hopefully I'll have some more info foot you about it by then.

 

[Pin_Head]

Georg can fix it and he is close to you. I wouldn't take it to a shop in the north bay as my son in law took his 60 in to a cruiser shop up there and they really "fixed" his smog. I guess it passed once, but the VSVs were wired wrong and the vacuum hoses were connected incorrectly and it wouldn't pass the next time it came up. It took a long time to figure it out and straighten it out so it would pass again.

 

[Gadjeep]

Georg can fix it and he is close to you. I wouldn't take it to a shop in the north bay as my son in law took his 60 in to a cruiser shop up there and they really "fixed" his smog. I guess it passed once, but the VSVs were wired wrong and the vacuum hoses were connected incorrectly and it wouldn't pass the next time it came up. It took a long time to figure it out and straighten it out so it would pass again.

Funny you should mention that. This truck came from the north bay (Napa actually) and that's exactly my situation. I told the PO I wouldn't buy it without it passing and somehow it happened. God knows what that guy did. I've found so many things wrong that I've fixed over the last two years it's baffling gotta he could have got it passed previously. I'm calling shenanigans.

 

[Pin_Head]

That is curiously coincidental. Maybe they have the same "friend" that runs a smog station. CARB runs stings on shops that are always on the take, but it is hard to sting a shop that only does the special services for friends.

PS. It cost my SIL a lot of money for the "fix" that wasn't.

 

[vipergrhd]

How did you end up having a two speed test when my 60 got smog last year it was on a dyno? Maybe the Smog guy think it's a full time 4wd? Have you check online how many times did you car failed smog? it will give you an idea if they cheated on the last smog.let me find the website so you can check your own vehicles history.

 

[vipergrhd]

I found it,here you go.http://www.bar.ca.gov/index.aspx

Just click on vehicle smog history

 

[Gadjeep]

How did you end up having a two speed test when my 60 got smog last year it was on a dyno? Maybe the Smog guy think it's a full time 4wd? Have you check online how many times did you car failed smog? it will give you an idea if they cheated on the last smog.let me find the website so you can check your own vehicles history.

As far as the two speed idle test goes, I believe that's just the ignorance of techs at the smog shop but I wasn't going to argue with them.

I checked the smog history and yeah, it ain't pretty and definitely points to shenanigans IMO.

 

[Pin_Head]

I checked the smog history and yeah, it ain't pretty and definitely points to shenanigans IMO.

Interesting. My SILs 60 was failing NOx, but there was no way that his EGR was functional after it was "fixed" and passed the smog check. The vacuum lines were not hooked up properly and the VSV that drives the EGR modulator was not hooked up either. After paying many hundreds of $$$ to "fix" it, it passed NOx at the repair shop easily, but two years later when it was up for a check again, it was back to being a gross polluter because of high NOx.

After finding that there was no vacuum at the modulator, it took me a couple of hours to figure out why because even after wiring up the VSV, the vacuum lines were misrouted. After fixing, it, the EGR was sticking open because it hadn't run in a long time, so I had to clean and lube it. It easily passed smog and then passed again when he sold it two years ago. Shenanigans is a good possibility. Bastids!

 

[Toadhopper]

FSM

Do you have the Smog FSM?
Also,
I had a smog guy mention that 80s Toyotas have issues with dirty exhaust getting into the air cleaner element and clogging it up. Mine passed after replacing the element (and VSVs.)
I went V8, but I still have the FSM if you need to look at one.
Toad

 

[vipergrhd]

I knew it.

As far as the two speed idle test goes, I believe that's just the ignorance of techs at the smog shop but I wasn't going to argue with them.

I checked the smog history and yeah, it ain't pretty and definitely points to shenanigans IMO.

My gut tells me he paid someone to get the smog done if you get my drift,i always check any car i buy before handing out the cash to someone.this can be avoided easily if we do our homework specially with these old beast.my smog failed too on my last trip to the station due to an EGR valve opening too soon and causing the vehicle to buck while on the dyno the test was aborted several times and i had to find a way to stop it. I know that my EGR valve needs replacement but just don't have the cash for a new one ($170) so i manage to find an old delay valve out of a Ford just enough to delay vacuum to the EGR in the end it pass with flying colors.

 

[Live to Ski]

Pin_Head,

How did you clean your EGR valve?

 

[Pin_Head]

If it is not too bad, you can just use a small dental scraper and a wire brush. For more stubborn deposits, soak the valve end but not the actuator diaphragm in Berryman's chem tool carb dip. Lube with teflon or graphite lube used for motorcycle cables.