Also interested in the intake setup Graeme.. what material did you use for the piping? Looks sprayed or powdercoated? Also what size pipe did you use, 2.5inch?
gbentink Turbo Upgrade Users Thread (3 Viewers)
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Also interested in the intake setup Graeme.. what material did you use for the piping? Looks sprayed or powdercoated? Also what size pipe did you use, 2.5inch?
My H55F is holding up fine, though the clutch slips when pushed harder shifting into low range 3rd under boost, or side stepping the clutch into low 3rd. Aftermarket 4 terrain clutch
Ah i can't wait for mine to come in!
Even with stock turbo, if you fuel it up like you have and dont get the valve body modified your transmission will die, its really that simple unfortunately. This happenend to me in 2006.
I am not sure who else does them, but wholesale automatics in melbourne probbaly gets 90% of the worlds work on these.... Not bad business for $850/ea
I have an A750F in my 100 series (5spd auto) which is a baby compared to the A442F you have. In stock trim though the clutch pressures and control means that they can handle more torque than a stock A442F. A valve body upgrade kit costs ~ $120 for an A750F and I have done that on mine. It made a massive difference. Unfortunately, with the chip I have being laptop programmable, my turbo and intercooler, I have found the limits and my gearbox is having some issues on lockup - I think my lockup clutch has died/dying. I have also discovered that one unijoint has failed (all needles fallen out) and my rear diff is broken.... That was after towing a 4 tonne van accross Australia and back over Christmas. Fuel economy was good for a big van - 18L/100km.
Your A442F if pre 92 is fully hydraulic. This is good and bad. Good because its reliable, bad because you cant have it run smooth and also tough when you want it. It will tend to be a bit nasty most of the time. Its the price you pay but I would still own a fully hydraulic A442F. Of the folk who have fitted an extreme stage 2 with 3rd lockup on their A442F (including myself), you get a reliable truck.
There is always some boost delay hence if there is a gear change before the boost/torque has built up but throttle is depressed (drivers wish for torque), it will be a bit of a nasty tough change if you want reliability.
If you fit a modified turbo, the much quicker boost response will make this torque delay issue less pronounced. Apart from the increased low end torque improvement, the ability to tune out the torque delay really helps make the kickdown cable "torque reference" more effective and results in a smoother vehicle to drive once the extreme valve body has been installed.
AdamB has an extreme valve body in his - Adam, are you around?
Enigma; I actually thought you bought one of my turbos last year some time?
I reccomend everyone upgrades their valve body whether they use one of my turbos or not. They are a big gearbox but have very poor (for life) clucth control - Toyota like it to be oh so smooth, which in an 80 isnt sooo important.
Hope that helps.
G
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Hi VT, I just noticed that you are only running 8psi. If the boost is even 0.5psi less with mine than the other, you will see it on the EGT gauge.
I should have mentioned that months ago.
I would suggest raising it to at least 11psi. you watch the EGT's plummet. You may even gain a kW or 2 while haveing a safer engine.
Cheers, G
I should have mentioned that months ago.
I would suggest raising it to at least 11psi. you watch the EGT's plummet. You may even gain a kW or 2 while haveing a safer engine.
Cheers, G
Hi Trock,
Actually it is iso free 2 pak. Awesome paint that wont kill you as quickly if you breath some in compared to the isocyanate containing variety
Its almost as hard as powdercoating too.
I'm an apple mac computer user. Just like "once youve gone Mac, you'll never go bakc". Adjust the rhyme for "2 pak".
Actually it is iso free 2 pak. Awesome paint that wont kill you as quickly if you breath some in compared to the isocyanate containing variety
Its almost as hard as powdercoating too.
I'm an apple mac computer user. Just like "once youve gone Mac, you'll never go bakc". Adjust the rhyme for "2 pak".
I did the Extreme Stage 2 (ES2) Valve Body quite a few years ago, before really increasing engine output. At first it did feel a bit harsh shifting but I don't notice any more. Someone did a very good writeup a couple of years ago and described its manners perfectly. One big change is that with 3rd gear lockup you have to relearn how to drive it. I manually run through the gears a lot, mostly downshifting, and if you just drop it from D to 3 with the TC locked and a light foot it is very clunky. It's pretty obvious if you think about what's happening. Without 3rd lockup you have a built-in cushion when you drop it into 3rd. With lockup you need to step on it a bit while dropping down to 3rd to keep it smooth.
With Graeme's turbo I've really been enjoying that point when the TC locks up in top gear - formerly known as the dead zone. With anything resembling a standard setup when the TC locks up in 4th gear your performance dies. Boost drops to ~10psi and it takes another 300rpm before the boost gets up to a useful level again. NOT ANY MORE. This turbo bridges that gap. In 4th gear when lockup occurs I'm still at 15psi (EDIT: My mistake, I'm at 17.5psi @ 1500rpm when I get lockup in 4th) and my exhaust is VERY clean right now. It only takes another 200rpm to be at full boost again. If I'm on it harder and am holding 3rd gear to 70km/h when my lockup occurs I actually hold full boost right through. Good times!
When I swapped in a 7M hybrid turbo running 16-18psi I had a pretty good setup but tuning was a hassle because it just wasn't possible to have it all. This is a daily driver and needs to be at least somewhat civilized. I wanted off-boost response that felt alive but without a huge shot of black at every intersection. I wanted the fuel to come on quickly as the boost built but not so quickly as to smoke everyone out. On full throttle and max boost I wanted enough fuel to allow me to run up to 1300F+ at high altitude mountain driving. Any one of these 3 things is easy to tune for, 2 maybe, all 3...not so much. The difficulty lies in the fact that the regular turbo options (stock, 7M hybrid) can't do everything I need. The stocker lacks at both ends -it isn't quick to respond at low rpm and can't flow enough at the top. The 7M hybrid can flow more air at relatively high boost but still doesn't get spinning early enough. The big problem for me was that at any boost level other than maximum my EGTs would start to rise too much. The only way to "fix" that was to increase preload on the aneroid spring. The result is that fuel comes on slower and of course boost builds slower! And round and round you go. Eventually I just found a place that was ok to live with.
Graeme and I had talked about this about 2 years ago, then he quietly disappeared for a while, and then magically reappeared with a solution. I've been running one of his early turbos for a year now and it does exactly what he said it would. Right off the bat, it wants to make boost. Having had a boost gauge on my previous turbo setups and always watching it closely, I was very pleased to see the difference in response with this one. In pretty much all situations it provides several psi more than the stock setup. This allows more fuel in almost all situations and that extra fuel helps build boost quickly.
Back to the valve body, I think my all hydraulic A442F with ES2 is holding up ok. I added a fairly large aux cooler last summer just to try to help it out a bit.
With Graeme's turbo I've really been enjoying that point when the TC locks up in top gear - formerly known as the dead zone. With anything resembling a standard setup when the TC locks up in 4th gear your performance dies. Boost drops to ~10psi and it takes another 300rpm before the boost gets up to a useful level again. NOT ANY MORE. This turbo bridges that gap. In 4th gear when lockup occurs I'm still at 15psi (EDIT: My mistake, I'm at 17.5psi @ 1500rpm when I get lockup in 4th) and my exhaust is VERY clean right now. It only takes another 200rpm to be at full boost again. If I'm on it harder and am holding 3rd gear to 70km/h when my lockup occurs I actually hold full boost right through. Good times!
When I swapped in a 7M hybrid turbo running 16-18psi I had a pretty good setup but tuning was a hassle because it just wasn't possible to have it all. This is a daily driver and needs to be at least somewhat civilized. I wanted off-boost response that felt alive but without a huge shot of black at every intersection. I wanted the fuel to come on quickly as the boost built but not so quickly as to smoke everyone out. On full throttle and max boost I wanted enough fuel to allow me to run up to 1300F+ at high altitude mountain driving. Any one of these 3 things is easy to tune for, 2 maybe, all 3...not so much. The difficulty lies in the fact that the regular turbo options (stock, 7M hybrid) can't do everything I need. The stocker lacks at both ends -it isn't quick to respond at low rpm and can't flow enough at the top. The 7M hybrid can flow more air at relatively high boost but still doesn't get spinning early enough. The big problem for me was that at any boost level other than maximum my EGTs would start to rise too much. The only way to "fix" that was to increase preload on the aneroid spring. The result is that fuel comes on slower and of course boost builds slower! And round and round you go. Eventually I just found a place that was ok to live with.
Graeme and I had talked about this about 2 years ago, then he quietly disappeared for a while, and then magically reappeared with a solution. I've been running one of his early turbos for a year now and it does exactly what he said it would. Right off the bat, it wants to make boost. Having had a boost gauge on my previous turbo setups and always watching it closely, I was very pleased to see the difference in response with this one. In pretty much all situations it provides several psi more than the stock setup. This allows more fuel in almost all situations and that extra fuel helps build boost quickly.
Back to the valve body, I think my all hydraulic A442F with ES2 is holding up ok. I added a fairly large aux cooler last summer just to try to help it out a bit.
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Interesting read adam, when I put my extreme in it shifted hard and second gear would slip before getting into third, a little adjustment of the kickdown cable and she's almost perfect, I have noticed its not as smooth as before but I am loving the third gear lockup. I also added a tru-cool in series with the factory cooler and am planning on adding a fan to a manual switch or thermostat.
I will try out giving it more juice as I downshift from 4th to 3rd as its damn harsh with a light foot as you say.
I will try out giving it more juice as I downshift from 4th to 3rd as its damn harsh with a light foot as you say.
So there is just the extreme valve body and a stage 2 extreme?
Not yet no, we exchanged pm's a few times, but I'm still several peso's short for awhile.
I really would like to do some kind of tranny swap down the road one day. I like the automatic for city driving, but it's not a daily driver anymore, but I would kill for some more lower gear options.
Sailor got me thinking about an NV4500 swap, that would be interesting.
So to clarify, you are saying that a turbo upgrade without a valve body upgrade will definitely kill an automatic transmission?
ForealBoreal said:
Sorry for hijacking but I thought the nomad and the stage 2 were the same but I can't find what the difference is, Adam?
Or for 4000 more you can just get a complete wholesale trans!
Back to the turbo maybe when mine goes kaput I'll look into this.
The answer to that is "it depends".
Stock, it will deal with some mods but you will have to carefully adjust the kickdown cable ensuiring theres no slip between gears - especially 1st to second. The higher you tune the engine the less likely this could be achieved. Peak torque at say 2000-2200 at 16psi and overfueled on stock turbo can kill the stock transmission if kickdown cable isnt adjusted right and maybe even if it is....
The tune on the aneroid and max torque and how it comes in when you press the throttle (time wise, there is a delay as boost chases fuel etc) affects the transmission life if you run it as auto shift. Fitting one of my turbos - say sanme spec as Adams, and a mild tune will make an incredible change to the torque response and wont rediuce the life on the trans even though mild hills only able to be done in 3rd could now be done at 1500-1600rpm in 4th. Its a huge difference, entirely different vehicle. You will fall in love with your 80 again.
There is a limit though to the tune. Also depends how you drive it. If you manually shift and reduce your throttle between changes, it will last as it is, even tuned up. Leaving it run auto mode is the issue, then it can have issues.
I was told early on that even in stock trim they are marginal - thats good advice.
My suggestion is, if you want reliability, get the extreme (Nomad) valve body. It might mean you never replace the gearbox (while you own the truck).
It will also mean another thing - you will chose auto rather than manual once you drive one with the valve body mod.
Stock, it will deal with some mods but you will have to carefully adjust the kickdown cable ensuiring theres no slip between gears - especially 1st to second. The higher you tune the engine the less likely this could be achieved. Peak torque at say 2000-2200 at 16psi and overfueled on stock turbo can kill the stock transmission if kickdown cable isnt adjusted right and maybe even if it is....
The tune on the aneroid and max torque and how it comes in when you press the throttle (time wise, there is a delay as boost chases fuel etc) affects the transmission life if you run it as auto shift. Fitting one of my turbos - say sanme spec as Adams, and a mild tune will make an incredible change to the torque response and wont rediuce the life on the trans even though mild hills only able to be done in 3rd could now be done at 1500-1600rpm in 4th. Its a huge difference, entirely different vehicle. You will fall in love with your 80 again.
There is a limit though to the tune. Also depends how you drive it. If you manually shift and reduce your throttle between changes, it will last as it is, even tuned up. Leaving it run auto mode is the issue, then it can have issues.
I was told early on that even in stock trim they are marginal - thats good advice.
My suggestion is, if you want reliability, get the extreme (Nomad) valve body. It might mean you never replace the gearbox (while you own the truck).
It will also mean another thing - you will chose auto rather than manual once you drive one with the valve body mod.
Hi Adam,
Good post for the readers.
Great its still going strong. I look forward to hearing about lower post intercooler temps
Cheers
Good post for the readers.
Great its still going strong. I look forward to hearing about lower post intercooler temps
Cheers
Will do. I travel on business 11 months our of the year so I haven't worked on it since the summer. I'll definitely give the boost a bump though next time I'm home and report back. Thanks!
gehn
Hi, I would be *very* suprised if you had one of my turbos, an intercooler, 3" exhaust, extreme valve body and 22-24psi and after that, wanted to make ANY changes to gearing. That is such an awesome combination.
I have been there already with people who are running 37" tyres on std gearing in manuals; they are about to change the diffs for 4.7:1 or some other large ratio for mega bucks and I say "just wait", change the turbo, lets tune it and see then". So far the only comment I have had is how to put lower ratio diffs in!
With one of my turbos, crusing at 70mph and geared to 1800rpm to do that would seem reasonable with torque to spare still for overtaking.
mmmmm, 35" Tyres, European 3.7:1 diffs and 0.716 (in the case of the A440F) final drive......
I have been there already with people who are running 37" tyres on std gearing in manuals; they are about to change the diffs for 4.7:1 or some other large ratio for mega bucks and I say "just wait", change the turbo, lets tune it and see then". So far the only comment I have had is how to put lower ratio diffs in!
With one of my turbos, crusing at 70mph and geared to 1800rpm to do that would seem reasonable with torque to spare still for overtaking.
mmmmm, 35" Tyres, European 3.7:1 diffs and 0.716 (in the case of the A440F) final drive......
I think enigma means his low range could be better with his 35s
Transfer gears is the answer in my eyes
Transfer gears is the answer in my eyes
With manual and european dif. ratios, low side gets too fast on 33"s, even worse with 35"'s or bigger... Especially low side reverse gets way too fast for offroad....
well nice intake settup graeme looks kind of like my old settup thought you might have shortend the run up by going under the battery ,then its not expossed to the outside down low. bet your turbo is really working now hey. . probably the best mod ive done on mine. been doing some trany testing even the extreme valve body slips and shudders with atebs minor power mods. so looks like we need more input on these a442f. because with all these newer even cheaper mods that are killing these tranys let alone adding one of your turbos or one of atebs turbos . ., .now that everyones getting these things dialled,it is time that everyone gets together and figures out the trany issue .cause we know now (at least the coastal cruisers guys) that you dont have to spend big bucks if your backyard handy ,to kill these tranys .
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How would the gearing on a H55, 3.7 diffs and 33's match up to one of your turbo's and a tune Graeme? I have a 300mm Isuzu clutch plate in mine..
