Gas/Fuel vapors/fumes visible from gas door (1 Viewer)

[skrypj]

IIRC, you have Victory skids? Get rid of them. They had the same issue when they were developing and testing their skids and evidently didn't bother to iterate sufficiently. It was so bad, they had to remove their skids mid-test. Honestly, most skids are going to trap heat and increase fuel heating to some degree.

On a separate note, I seem to have some measure of improvement with fuel boiling. Between adding insulation to the fuel lines and gas tank especially where they come close to the hot exhaust. Also added a body lift which probably improves airflow and trapping of heat in the chassis. Recently returned to Big Bear White Mountain at 8k ft in the summer, which is where I had problems with some mild fuel vapers previously. No issue to speak of this time. Can't say it's permanently solved to higher elevations and hotter temps, as this problem is all about margin and degree of. But seems better.

Yeah I do have victory skids. What skid wouldnt cause issues? They all seem to be the same fundamental design.

I dont understand why this would be such a massive issue on these trucks but not on a GX460. They are configured almost exactly the same and I wheeled my GX on the same exact trails.

 

[grinchy]

my opinion (not fact for sure) is that the US fuel regulations forced a change for the worst regarding canister location and plumbing. I haven't see any overheating fuel chatter from ROW 200s, which have a different canister location and plumbing setup.

 

[TeCKis300]

Yeah I do have victory skids. What skid wouldnt cause issues? They all seem to be the same fundamental design.

I dont understand why this would be such a massive issue on these trucks but not on a GX460. They are configured almost exactly the same and I wheeled my GX on the same exact trails.

I can't say exactly as I haven't looked at the Victory skids in person. There are differences based on pics. Looking at various other designs, some have more reliefs than others for airflow especially at the cats. The Victory's looks to be solid shielding right under the cats? That's going to reflect and trap heat unfortunately.

Fuel boiling is a common things to Land Cruiser even in the 100-series as they tend to tuck their drivetrain higher in the underbelly. That's going to trap more heat in and of itself.

Combined with ethanol fuel we get in the states.

It's not black and white and things add up to reduce margins to increasing vapor pressures into fuel boiling. Small things may make the difference.

Could be possible to modify the Victory to allow more airflow?

Victory

Dissent

 

[TheGrrrrr]

my opinion (not fact for sure) is that the US fuel regulations forced a change for the worst regarding canister location and plumbing. I haven't see any overheating fuel chatter from ROW 200s, which have a different canister location and plumbing setup.

My working theory is less about regulations and plumbing and more about the formulations of the fuel blends that contain ethanol. I’m no expert but my understanding is generally there are blends for the hot and cold seasons in a given area and there are refineries in Texas and California supplying fuel. Price and blend seem to have more to do with which refinery network the fuel came from. From what I understand it’s not intuitive either. Like I’ve heard the California sourced blends tend to be cheaper and Texas more expensive. Also that in a given moment the fuel in flagstaff could be a winter blend from California while Phoenix is predominantly still getting a summer blend from Texas resulting in dramatically different prices and characteristics.

 

[gasman4u]

@skrypj

The P0441 Thread

forum.ih8mud.com

NOT to discount what others have said, but I can say my charcoal canister was generating p2420 when it was bad. But I never smelled gas.

 

[Fisher23]

Would running the return fuel line through an oil cooler solve the fuel boiling issue?

 

[skrypj]

I cant believe my charcoal canister would be bad on a 2018 with 50k miles. But maybe.

 

[TeCKis300]

I cant believe my charcoal canister would be bad on a 2018 with 50k miles. But maybe.

It's possible it's bad because of the added vapor load. Possible it's just fine too. Is it possible to take off just the skid under the cats to see if the problem goes away before assessing if you need a new charcoal canister? Changing the canister without addressing the root issue is probably not worthwhile IMO.

 

[skrypj]

It's possible it's bad because of the added vapor load. Possible it's just fine too. Is it possible to take off just the skid under the cats to see if the problem goes away before assessing if you need a new charcoal canister? Changing the canister without addressing the root issue is probably not worthwhile IMO.

I wasnt planning on removing the canister yet but I will pull the skid and see what happens. Hopefully I wont be crushed to death.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

I cant believe my charcoal canister would be bad on a 2018 with 50k miles. But maybe.

From what I understand the vapor load can cause an early failure of the charcoal cannister which then makes things even worse because the vapor isn't getting purged back to the intake. The other thing that supposedly kills them early is topping off at the pump.

 

[2021 LC200]

I cant believe my charcoal canister would be bad on a 2018 with 50k miles. But maybe.

@skrypj are you running an LRA with the canister vent tucked up with the dual filler neck in the rear wheel arch?

 

[skrypj]

@skrypj are you running an LRA with the canister vent tucked up with the dual filler neck in the rear wheel arch?

No. I have an LRA sitting in the garage but not installed yet

 

[2021 LC200]

No. I have an LRA sitting in the garage but not installed yet

Odd you have a vapor or charcoal canister problem then. Assume you do not consistently top off multiple times at the gas station? Or park every night on a slope which potentially could drain the canister as well? Although both would mean the check valve to the canister is leaking, it probably will over time.

For reference, how fuel vapors from the tank get routed via the charcoal canister to the vent around the factory filler neck:

How fuel vapor is purged into the intake manifold when you drive:

 

[skrypj]

I can't say exactly as I haven't looked at the Victory skids in person. There are differences based on pics. Looking at various other designs, some have more reliefs than others for airflow especially at the cats. The Victory's looks to be solid shielding right under the cats? That's going to reflect and trap heat unfortunately.

Fuel boiling is a common things to Land Cruiser even in the 100-series as they tend to tuck their drivetrain higher in the underbelly. That's going to trap more heat in and of itself.

Combined with ethanol fuel we get in the states.

It's not black and white and things add up to reduce margins to increasing vapor pressures into fuel boiling. Small things may make the difference.

Could be possible to modify the Victory to allow more airflow?

VictoryView attachment 3739538

Dissent
View attachment 3739545

After spending a good amount of time under the truck the last few days doing the oil in the TC, diffs and lubing the prop shafts, the Victory skids, particularly the transmission/T-case skid, is definitely problematic. The cats are fully tucked above it and there is little room between the transmission skid and gas tank skid so it probably just blows the hot air right over to the tank.

Might need to get out the cutting wheel and trim the transmission skid narrower and reinforce with angle iron.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

Might need to get out the cutting wheel and trim the transmission skid narrower and reinforce with angle iron.

Don't assume that alone will solve anything. I had my skids drilled out in a polka dot pattern where the cats are to improve airflow and I don't think it really helped enough to have been worth it.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

Would running the return fuel line through an oil cooler solve the fuel boiling issue?

I have all the parts to do this, but now that I know I can avoid the issue with non-ethanol fuel (which is available in the places I most frequently have this issue) I have held off on making any major changes to the fuel system.

 

[TeCKis300]

After spending a good amount of time under the truck the last few days doing the oil in the TC, diffs and lubing the prop shafts, the Victory skids, particularly the transmission/T-case skid, is definitely problematic. The cats are fully tucked above it and there is little room between the transmission skid and gas tank skid so it probably just blows the hot air right over to the tank.

Might need to get out the cutting wheel and trim the transmission skid narrower and reinforce with angle iron.

I dug this up for you if it's any help. Disappointing that all too often these aftermarket parts are underdeveloped.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/victory4x4-lc200-build-prototyping-and-product-development.1240627/post-13985327

 

[MCtree]

I was getting the P0441 error and smelling gas when I flooded my charcoal canister and I have the stock skids.

Though I do have the bud-built Cat-guards.
But they have lots of venting along both sides of the cats.

 

[Fisher23]

I have full skid plates and have only have fuel boil when coming from the Mojave at 107 degrees and going up in the mountains.

When doing so many other vehicles also had fuel boil mostly RV's with large tanks.

How do you find fuel stations that have ethanol free fuel? .. Where I live is more word of mouth or asking around as people use it in their boats.

 

[bloc]

I got fuel tank boiling of ethanol-free with stock skids at high altitude in Colorado. Tho I’ve so far not killed a CC.

Neither are a sure-fire solution.