G Turbo.....No comment. (1 Viewer)

[Toy12HT]

I sent an email off to Gturbo a couple of weeks ago and Rhys Bentink responded fairly quickly.

I had bought a red wheel for my 1HD FTE from them and an intercooler from PDI. There's a mounting hole in the bottom of the intercooler to mount a NPT elbow to take a pressure reading. They suggested that I use an alloy fitting and Raceworks had exactly what I was after.

On the Gturbo compressor housing is a brass elbow facing towards to block. I sent an email off to Gturbo just to clarify why brass and not alloy and why facing towards the block. Rhys said the aluminum thread would not be damaged by a brass fitting and that using an alloy fitting in the alloy compressor housing would gall (damage) the thread.

So I sent off clarifying email just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. As a winemaker I know a little about molecular charge, as the two metals exchange electrons the alloy would definitely break down, thereby fretting the thread in the compressor housing. I also asked if the brass and alloy threads were the same size and pitch why would the alloy fitting, made of the same material, gall the thread but a brass fitting won't? Rhys hasn't responded!

Rhys also says that the brass fitting is point towards the block because very few people fit boost control valves. I have yet to see any after market turbo with out some form of boost control. Let me know if you don't.

So the question is, does brass fret alloy and does an alloy fitting gall an alloy thread? Comments please.

 

[roma042987]

What email have you been corresponding with him on? I've tried placing an order and can't get a response.

 

[Toy12HT]

sales@gturbo.com.au is the one we communicated on. His tag on the email is sales manager.

I know they weren't back on deck til the 9th of Jan but he first responded before that and they should be back at he coal face by now.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I would have no hesitation using brass.

There's many instances where brass fittings are used in alloy parts such as brass sensors in alloy heads.

I'd accept the advice to avoid aluminium fittings. Some metals gall easily with like on like threads.
The little I've had to do with alloy fittings, they are anodised, so have a harder surface. You have to be very careful with them.
Stainless steel is another example. Stainless on stainless is horrible. Steel on stainless is better in terms of galling.

Electrolysis really only occurs if there's enough moisture, and there's a stray electric current. Much less likely you'll have that scenario on a turbo housing than in a winery.

You're more likely to do damage removing the brass and replacing with an alloy fitting than is ever gonna happen by just leaving the brass.
Also, there's a good chance the thread on the brass fitting will be tapered. If you can run with it as is, leave it. If you try and change its position, tightening more, you risk breaking it, loosening it, you risk it leaking.


Who said use alloy fittings on the intercooler? PDI? Or Gturbo?

What are you using the boost signal from the intercooler for? Waste gate? Or gauge?

I think I'd take boost signal for the waste gate and gauge from the cold side of the intercooler, but you can use the fitting on the turbo too.

Is yours like GTurbo's picture below? Perfect for connection to the waste gate.
I see no problem using the fitting as pictured to run hose to a boost controller and back to the waste gate actuator if you want to do that

I wouldn't expect a response from an Aussie business this week.
It's still peak holiday season for a lot of people. Even if the business is open, good chance individuals are still on holidays.

I also think he's answered your question, and you didn't accept his answer.

 

[nickolai]

Nothing happens in Australia and NZ in January. People will only just be trickling back from Holidays that started the other side of Christmas. They'll be pissed off about it too so you're unlikely to hear anything quickly. Last week of Jan there will be a flurry of work and then there's a load of public holidays really close to each other so it goes quiet again.

 

[Toy12HT]

Im not sure you have read my comment clearly mudgudgeon. I have read a number of your emails on this site and some of them are very provoking and a true defender of all things GTurbo.

The email from Rhys came before they were scheduled to re open. My email seeking clarification came after they were scheduled to reopen Rhys comments may or may not have been correct I was simply asking for clarification on what he had said.

A "stray" electrical current (which doesn't not exist) has nothing to do with electrolysis, the molecular charge of the ions within two different metals determine the exchange between them, this can be accelerated with a catalyst like salt water.

Your comment regarding stainless steel is completely incorrect, globally in the wine, beer, dairy industry and pharmaceutical industries, stainless steel are the pipes and fittings of choice, I have NEVER seen stainless steel male and female threads damage themselves, EVER.

The picture you supplied from gturbo is upside down. The brass fitting pointing towards the block is perfect for joining with waste gate. If, like most people that use a boost controller when using a turbo with a higher boost pressure, that boost controller is usually mounted on the wheel arch. Which is a 180 degree opposite direction from where the brass fitting points. Now, could you still bend a rubber hose 180 degree and make it fit, yes. Does the rubber hose have a higher probability of rubbing or kinking and even drying out the closer it is to a extremely hot block, yes.

Maybe you could give some examples where like metals gall on themselves where they have the same size thread and pitch. Im sure some industrial chemists and engineers would love to know. Steel on steel, alloy on alloy, brass on brass, chrome molly on chrome molly. There must be alot of damaged threads on construction sites! Typically galling only happens where the thread pitch is incorrect, the threads are crossed or soft metals are screwed so tight together it causes the threads to deform. This deformity them damages or galls the thread on the mating surface.

Waiting for your next attack

 

[AussieHJCruza]

We work with a lot of stainless and yes, there's massive challenges with galling etc. With threaded stainless items. Varying grades assists, such as 316SS bolt and 304SS nut, use of a lubricant on the threads etc.

 

[bj70bc]

dude, you are way overthinking this, brass is the standard, dont be scared...
point the fitting where you need it to go for your application
if you're worried use some lube or favorite thread sealer
bobs your uncle

 

[mudgudgeon]

Waiting for your next attack

You clearly have it all figured out

 

[mudgudgeon]

There must be alot of damaged threads on construction sites

Spent much time in construction?

Better??


I think my reading comprehension is just fine most of the time.



Your post tells me two things.

1 You want someone to tell you what you want to hear.
GTurbo answered your question. Do you doubt their integrity? Or doubt their knowledge?
They've built thousands of turbos just like the picture. I think they've figured this out

2 Your knowledge of metallurgy is lacking. I agree you're overthinking it.


The analogy I used comparing stainless was because there's similarities. Stainless on stainless compared to alloy on alloy.
Machined stainless bolts, nuts, fittings, and screws are typically very soft, a lot softer than hard drawn pipe.
Soft metal on soft metal with any significant torque is a recipe for galling threads.

I've seen many stainless fasteners used once, and thrown away when things need to be adjusted or reconfigured, because a broken or siezed bolt isn't worth the trouble.

Most likely the reason an alloy fitting worked in the soft aluminium intercooler core is because the fitting was anodised.
Anodising hardens the surface.
Anodising is an electrolytic process which is made possible by using electrical current. The same as electrolysis. Take away the electric current, anodising wouldn't work. In a vehicle setting, dissimilar metals can corrode due to electrolysis.
Vast majority of time, this is a non issue in the millions of cars built every year. Including your Toyota which I believe left the factory with a brass barb in the turbo housing for the waste gate line.
Occasionally, severe corrosion in engines can occur between dissimilar metals when there's electrical issues with the vehicle.


I agree with the post above, a bit of lube, thread tape, or thread sealer helps a lot. And separates the dissimilar metals.


If you think I'm defending GTurbo, I'm not at all.
I care not if you use GTurbo or Mamba or any of the other turbo option that come and go.

I will say, I interacted quite a bit in threads Graeme participated in way back before he started building turbos. His intelligence, engineering knowledge, and problem solving leaves me looking simple

Make of that what you will. And honestly, good luck, and lighten up.

 

[Dilspec]

I would like my 15 minutes back.

 

[Sonofaskipper]

Im not sure you have read my comment clearly mudgudgeon. I have read a number of your emails on this site and some of them are very provoking and a true defender of all things GTurbo.

The email from Rhys came before they were scheduled to re open. My email seeking clarification came after they were scheduled to reopen Rhys comments may or may not have been correct I was simply asking for clarification on what he had said.

A "stray" electrical current (which doesn't not exist) has nothing to do with electrolysis, the molecular charge of the ions within two different metals determine the exchange between them, this can be accelerated with a catalyst like salt water.

Your comment regarding stainless steel is completely incorrect, globally in the wine, beer, dairy industry and pharmaceutical industries, stainless steel are the pipes and fittings of choice, I have NEVER seen stainless steel male and female threads damage themselves, EVER.

The picture you supplied from gturbo is upside down. The brass fitting pointing towards the block is perfect for joining with waste gate. If, like most people that use a boost controller when using a turbo with a higher boost pressure, that boost controller is usually mounted on the wheel arch. Which is a 180 degree opposite direction from where the brass fitting points. Now, could you still bend a rubber hose 180 degree and make it fit, yes. Does the rubber hose have a higher probability of rubbing or kinking and even drying out the closer it is to a extremely hot block, yes.

Maybe you could give some examples where like metals gall on themselves where they have the same size thread and pitch. Im sure some industrial chemists and engineers would love to know. Steel on steel, alloy on alloy, brass on brass, chrome molly on chrome molly. There must be alot of damaged threads on construction sites! Typically galling only happens where the thread pitch is incorrect, the threads are crossed or soft metals are screwed so tight together it causes the threads to deform. This deformity them damages or galls the thread on the mating surface.

Waiting for your next attack

You’re making broad generalizations about stainless. It is alloyed in myriad combinations, yielding disparate hardnesses and brittleness. In your industry, I’d imagine you’re used to working with surgical grade. Your experiences may differ from others. I’ve personally dealt with plenty of falling from stainless on stainless threads, mostly from 304, but also with 316. And I’m damn sure it’s not from mismatched or crossed threads.

 

[wedgetail]

In this application there’s no way I’d fit an alloy fitting like that - it’s asking for galling. Brass is 100% what I’d use, I’ve seen alloy gall on alloy a few times to not want to go anywhere near it for tapered thread fittings. This is probably the most extreme over thought process I’ve ever seen when fitting a run of the mill hose barb into anything.

I’ve never found Gturbo (and Rhys in particular) anything but friendly and helpful even though I haven’t bought anything off them and pester them with questions and enquires. He almost certainly didn’t respond because he thought it wasn’t worth it - I wouldn’t either

 

[SNLC]

dude, you are way overthinking this, brass is the standard, dont be scared...
point the fitting where you need it to go for your application
if you're worried use some lube or favorite thread sealer
bobs your uncle

That is what we do.



Cheers

 

[Dougal]

Your comment regarding stainless steel is completely incorrect, globally in the wine, beer, dairy industry and pharmaceutical industries, stainless steel are the pipes and fittings of choice, I have NEVER seen stainless steel male and female threads damage themselves, EVER.

Seriously? Because all the stainless on stainless work I've all done was so prone to galling and seizing that we had to use food-grade grease on every nut and bolt.

Otherwise as soon as they scrape any surface off they're cold-welded together. You can break the cold-weld spot if you're lucky, but you've then got a loose ball of metal in there destroying the threads while you try to get it apart.

Like on like metals love to gall and seize.

Graeme of G-Turbo was a process engineer before he started on turbos. He knows about metal corrosion.