FZJ80 won't start - help! (1 Viewer)

[Paul D63]

This is my first post on here, but I've had my 80 Series for over 10 years and always do any work needed on it myself. I repair/restore classic cars for a living, so am familiar with automotive repair generally, but modern electrics are where I begin to struggle (yes, an 80 Series is modern compared to what I'm used to working on!).

So, to my problem: I have a '96 4.5 petrol 24V Amazon which I took off the road a couple of years ago as it was in need of some cosmetic restoration. During the time it's been off the road, it's been started and moved a few times without any issues... until a few months ago, when I wanted to move it. After charging the battery, I tried starting, but all it would do was start and run normally for a coupe of seconds and then instantly cut-out. It would do this repeatedly, following the same pattern every time, until, after quite a few attempts, it wouldn't fire at all. At this point, I gave up and left it.

Fast forward to yesterday, and as I now want to get it into my workshop to begin the work on it, I've given it another go. After another charge of the battery, the same thing was happening again - start and cut out, over and over. First thing I've tried to establish is whether it's ignition or fuel related. There is a spark, even when it won't start, and I've verified that when it dies after a couple of seconds, the sparks are still coming right up to the point the motor stops spinning, but after it's cut out if you understand what I mean. So I think it's a fuel problem.

So far, I've verified that the pump is running, and a check of the absolute pressure from the pump has given a figure over 80 psi, so I imagine that kind of proves the pump is delivering the goods. I haven't been able to test the actual system pressure due to not having a suitable adapter to splice into the line - and also the difficulty of getting to the incoming line where the vehicle is currently parked. The main EFI relay clicks as it's unplugged and plugged in again with ignition on, so that appears to be switching.

So, if we have fuel under pressure in the rail, and we have a spark, then the only thing to prevent it running is surely the injectors not being given the signal to open? Am I missing something? I should add that it now won't run at all - the starting and immediately cutting out has given way to now not even firing at all, it just spins over with no sign of life. I appreciate there's more to it than this, but if it was a faulty fuel pressure regulator, or a dodgy sensor somewhere, surely it would still run, but just roughly? I'm getting nothing at all now. If there's pressurised fuel in the rail (there is) and a spark (yes), then the only thing preventing the fuel from getting to the spark is the injectors surely? And as all six couldn't fail simultaneously, then my thinking is they're not getting the signal to open.

One final thing to add: having read the codes, the only one I'm getting is 99, which research suggests is related to an immobiliser fault. Could the immobiliser be the culprit here? I know nothing about this. Does anyone know how the immobiliser prevents the engine from starting? I can only think of three ways it could do this:

1) It cuts the ignition circuit, so no spark.
2) It cuts the starter circuit, so no engagement of the starter.
3) It cuts the EFI somehow.

If it's 1 or 2, then that can't really be my problem - but if it's 3, then maybe?

Can anyone help me with this? I really can't even work on it properly where it currently sits, so I need to get it running so I can get it in the workshop. Too far to push and a little tight on space for towing it in there.

Any ideas will be much appreciated.

 

[ppc]

A '96 4.5 petrol 24V Amazon is something that I never seen posted on this forum before. The first question would be if this model is and ODB1 or ODB2 setup as that will dictate the responses you will get. Some underhood pictures will be helpful as well.

Your issue seems to parallel a recent thread where the VAF in an ODB1 vehicle was damaged by attempting to disconnect the cable the wrong way. The end result was a damaged fuel cutoff circuit.

Read through the thread below. The VAF issue starts in post #4.

My first 80

I always regretted selling my last Landcruiser in 2007. After owning three FJ60's( 1983, 1986, and a 1987 which is in my avatar), I finally found an 80 series from Birmingham, AL in eddie baur green that was clean, close, and within budget. It's a 11/94 build date with the later full float...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Paul D63]

Thanks Phil! I should probably clarify that I'm in the UK, so maybe slightly different specs for things? I read through the thread as per above, but mine is a slightly later model (think that one was a '94, mine's '96). So, mine doesn't have the same part as shown in that thread - mine is a black plastic thing situated in the same approximate location i.e. in the inlet trunking between the air filter housing and the throttle body. Has a plug with around five wires going into it. How can I test that part? It may be worth checking, as reading through that thread rang a few bells with my own symptoms.

Oh, I should add that mine's OBD1 I think: short out two terminals in the diagnostic socket and count the flashes on the CEL for the codes.

 

[baldilocks]

All component test procedures and system test procedures are clearly outlined in the appropriate Toyota factory service manual and rather difficult to explain step by step here.

 

[ppc]

If your vehicle is ODB1 and does not implement the VAF then you have an extremely rare beast, not a combination offered in the North American market. Pictures of what you have are going to be key for anyone to provide help.

 

[Paul D63]

Phil, you may be correct. But something in the back of my mind tells me that all vehicles in the U.S. had to be OBDll compliant by '96, whereas over here, I think it only became a legal requirement around '99 perhaps. I downloaded the FSM from a link found via the thread you directed me to, but I guess that's a FSM for the U.S. spec vehicles, as it states a '96 is OBDll, and mine isn't... at least, I'm pretty sure it isn't, as the fault codes are simple two-digit things and not the much longer OBDll style ones with letters and numbers. If it was OBDll, then I wouldn't be able to check the codes by shorting the terminals and counting the CEL flashes would I?

 

[sbman]

The first thing I'd look at is the intake tubing, wire harness and vacuum hoses. It's possible that during the time the vehicle has spent sitting the intake tube has become cracked or a rodent has chewed up critical wiring harness points. A cracked intake tube could be causing a very lean condition with lots of unmetered air. I would also check the strength of the spark with an adjustable gap test tool, perhaps a weak coil isn't producing spark under cylinder pressure.

For the wiring harness, start at the firewall and follow it through the engine bay as it snakes around the engine. Especially check wires going to the injectors since you've verified you have spark. (unlikely to be crank position sensor which is mounted low on the engine) There are some areas that are very difficult to get to for inspection.

Beyond that a factory manual (FSM) for your model is going to be indispensable, and possibly an electrical wiring diagram (EWD) as well. Checking the VAF or MAF per the factory specs would be high on the list too, but you'll need to know which you have and what the test procedures are (FSM).

 

[sbman]

Posting your VIN number would help isolate exactly which model you have.

 

[Paul D63]

Posting your VIN number would help isolate exactly which model you have.

Thanks sbman - will do that in due course (11 pm here ATM).

 

[MoJ]

How old is the fuel?

 

[popstar]

Amazon is the English trim for the 80 series (As in Prado and Amazon as the models which both fall under the landcruiser category) I’m willing to bet it’s OBD2.

Same exact 4.5 engine as ours over on “the continent”

Have you checked the vacuum lines? Maybe a leak could be keeping the engine from settling into an idle after starting.

 

[BILT4ME]

I'm thinking IAC valve based on description.

 

[Paul D63]

Wow! The info's coming thick & fast here - thanks guys!

OK, first off, the VIN, as requested: JT111UJ8007001849.

As per my post above, although a '96 over there would be OBDll, I don't think mine is for the reasons mentioned - unless I've got that wrong. How can I be sure?

Vacuum lines - all good as far as I can see, and when it would start for a few seconds, it ran as expected, nothing to suggest a big air leak anywhere. It sounded perfectly normal for those few seconds - and it would have to be a pretty big leak to prevent it from running at all, bearing in mind that now it simply spins over and doesn't even attempt to fire. I think even with an air leak, it would at least cough & splutter a bit as it tried to ignite a weak mixture. Same logic applies to the intake tract, but I've had a look at this anyway, and all appears OK.

Fuel is fresh, as it was very low anyway so I put a couple of gallons of fresh stuff in yesterday. But to be honest, when I first tried it - when it was at the stage that it would run normally for a few seconds - I hadn't put the fresh fuel in by then, so I think we can rule out stale fuel. I have a lot of experience of dealing with vehicles with stale fuel in the tank, from my 'day job', so I know the signs.

I've hot-wired the fuel pump so it runs with ignition on, just to rule out any of the circuitry that could cut the fuel pump supply - still no life. But to be honest, when it would run and cut out, I could still hear the pump running for a couple of seconds after it cut, so clearly the pump was still running at the moment it died. I have now put the pump wiring back to normal. Also, just to clarify, the pump delivers over 80 psi absolute, so I assume that's OK, but haven't been able to test the system pressure. But again, even if the fuel pressure reg was bad, surely I'd still get something, an attempt at firing at least as surely some fuel would still find its way through the injectors, if they were opening?

A couple of other points: I don't appear to have a crank sensor on mine - at least, not in the location suggested by the manual, under the front of the sump. IAC: even if this was bad, wouldn't I still get something? Again, if this was bad, worst case scenario would be a weaker mixture wouldn't it? Surely it would still try to start, or fire at least? Also, does that really fit the original symptom of running fine for a few seconds and then cutting suddenly? If the IAC suddenly allowed a load of air in, I'd expect it to splutter and fade out as the mixture weakened off, but this was cutting very suddenly, as though it had simply been shut down.

 

[BILT4ME]

How about a couple pics under the hood of the GAF/MAF/AFM area as well as the intake manifold side and fuse block interior and under hood?

 

[sbman]

Based on a VIN Decode, your cruiser is:

GRADE:	VX:	VX TYPE
DESTINATION:	EUR:	EUROPE
DRIVER'S POSITION:	RHD:	RIGHT-HAND DRIVE
ENGINE:	1FZFE:	4500CC EFI
FUEL SYSTEM:	EFI:	ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION (GASOLINE)
TRANSMISSION:	ATM:	AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
BACK DOOR:	LUB:	LIFT UP BACK DOOR
COLOR CODE:	3H4

It use EFI Computer part number 89661-60271 which is unique to your model as far as I can tell. That part number was never used as an EFI computer in the USA/ It was used until 97 in your market.

According to parts diagrams your cruiser uses part number 22250-66050 for an air sensor which is the same part used on my 1997 North American FZJ80. 08/1992 to 01/1995 used the older part, part number 22250-66010.

22250-66050 is the device with the wires coming out of it mounted to the air filter output in this picture, yours should look the same.

I don't show a crank position sensor for your model in the diagrams. Early models here in the U.S. didn't have it either.

That is a tough model to work with from here. It has the newer air sensor and yet it does not appear to be OBD (lack of crank position sensor). So none of the USA documentation will exactly match up, you'll need an FSM from your market if you want to follow Toyota's troubleshooting diagrams (which are very thorough).

However, I think the key to your issue is in your code 99. Your truck has an immobilizer that uses a transponder based key and a computer that works in tandem with the EFI computer to prevent theft. I'm pretty sure your immobilizer is causing the trouble and was precipitated by the dead battery from sitting. Unfortunately I can't find much information on how to reset it. If you have another key, you might try that. Evidently there is one 'Master' key (89785-60020) and then you can have up to 3 additional keys (89786-60020) programmed into it. It seems like there is no way to bypass it since it is integrated with the EFI Computer. You'll need to get that code 99 cleared before the vehicle will run properly if I understand correctly about the system. Your Toyota dealer should be able to cut and program new keys for you.

 

[Paul D63]

OK everyone - more info now, and some photos, assuming they upload OK.

So, to update first of all - had another look at things today and done some tests as per the FSM downloaded from this very site. This, I assume, is a U.S. version of the manual, and mine is, of course, UK spec, but most components appear to be the same as far as I can see. Here's what I've tested, with results:

1) MAF - resistance test as per manual gave 3.92 K ohms at ambient temp. around 7 degrees (C). Manual gives 4 - 7 K ohms at 0 degrees & 2 - 3 K ohms at 20 degrees, so I'd guess the result is within spec.

2) MAF - voltage test as per manual gave 0.6V with IGN on, around 1.3V when cranking (so air being drawn through the MAF), and , as luck would have it, it chose that moment to run for a couple of seconds and showed around 2V. Manual says voltage should fluctuate when air is drawn through the MAF, and it does, so I assume that's a pass also?

3) IAC - can't shift the screws holding this, so for now, only the resistance test was possible in-situ. Results were 20 ohms across all terminal pairs. Manual states 15 - 25 ohms at any temp. between minus 10 & plus 50 degrees, so that's also a pass. Couldn't verify the click on engine stop, as couldn't get it to run for long enough to get there before the engine died.

4) Fuel pump resistor - resistance test gave a reading around 1 ohm, but the leads of the tester touched together gives 0.3, so I guess I have to deduct that to get the actual resistance measured, which gives 0.7 ohms. Manual states 0.7 - 0.76 @ 20 degrees, but only 7 degrees here today. Is that within spec? Can't be far off I imagine.

That's as far as I got today. So, a few thoughts: haven't I ruled out any fault within the fuel pump circuit by powering the pump directly, at which point it still didn't fire? And also the fact that I can hear it run, and still hear it for a couple of seconds after the engine dies? At the same time as the pump cuts after each attempt to start, I also hear a click from down in the LH footwell area, which I guess is the circuit opening relay, as the manual gives that location for it. And as I know the pump can deliver at least 80 psi, I'm hopeful that we can rule out anything on the pump circuit.

I disconnected the battery yesterday just to clear any glitches and also the codes. But having read the codes again today after the above tests, I'm immediately seeing code 99 again, which I think is immobiliser. No other codes showing. Why does this code keep coming back, and could the immobiliser be causing my problems? I suspect it's probably not that, but would be nice to rule it out if anyone knows how? Incidentally, after not starting at all yesterday, today it has managed to fire up a few times, but just as earlier attempts - runs great for a couple of seconds and then dies instantly, no stumbling or fading away, just stops dead. And then it's nothing, spins over but makes no attempt to fire. These are the two extremes I get, with nothing in between: if it fires at all, then it starts instantly and sounds perfectly normal for those couple of seconds, or, I get absolutely nothing, just spins over but with no signs of even one cylinder firing - just as though it was spinning over with no ignition on, yet there is a spark.

Where do I go from here?

 

[sbman]

The code 99 means that the immobilizer does not recognize your key. I'm pretty sure that's your problem. The manual won't match up very well for your truck given the significant differences between your market's EFI computer and the U.S. spec being OBD. See my previous post.

 

[Paul D63]

Sorry sbman, I was writing the above post when you posted. Yes, that looks like the same part as on mine (the MAF). And yes, I can confirm mine has no crank sensor as you said - checked again today, and the sump has the mounting points for one, but just blanked off and no wires, so obviously never had one.

Do you really think it could be as simple as the immobiliser? I can confirm that mine has a separate key fob that controls the alarm and I assume immobiliser. Unfortunately, I have only one key for it. Do you think there may be a transponder in the key to control the immobiliser, separate from the factory fitted alarm (it's a Toyota fob with two buttons to lock/unlock, which activates or deactivates the alarm at the same time)?

 

[sbman]

The alarm is completely separate and may or may not be toyota. The immobilizer is an OEM device that uses a transponder in the key. There is a coil mounted around the ignition cylinder that is powered to activate the transponder and pick up it's code. The Immobilizer computer will send signals to the EFI computer to shut down if the key isn't recognized. It throws a code 99 if the key isn't recognized. There are no relays to bypass or anything, it communicates directly with the EFI computer. This certainly seems like your issue. If you can't find the procedures for pairing your key with the system I think you are looking at getting Toyota involved.

 

[sbman]

Also, the FOB has nothing to do with the immobilizer, the transponder is in the key head.