FZJ80 tranny stopped hard-shifting but I don't know why!

[Chachi254]

Hi Mudders,

I recently went out of town for 8-days before I left I:

1. Disconnected the battery (was left disconnected for all 8-days)
2. Removed top-end EGR diaphragms and submerged them in seafoam for the week,
3. Cleaned the TB with it still assembled - (I did not remove TB -- I just removed the air-cleaner intake hose and cleaned it from the TB intake opening, the brake booster hole, the PCV intake hole, and the EGR temp sensor hole with Seafoam and TB cleaner)
4. Greased every zerk I could find on both front and rear drive-shafts and U-joints with Moly grease
5. Replaced the Upstream o2 sensor (B1S1)

After reconnecting all of the hoses to the TB/manifold, I reconnected the battery and spent 10-15 min smoking out my neighbors barbecue party as all the crap burned off from the TB cleaning. Then I took it for a test-drive and noticed that my transmission was shifting differently than it did before, much differently.... meaning that it wasn't shifting hard even under hard acceleration as it had done for at least the last 20k miles.

It shifts so smoothly that it almost feels like it did when I was learning how to drive 5-speed and I'd let the clutch out realllllly slowly to get the smoothest shift. The tranny is not "slipping", I know what that feels like... it almost feels as if my tranny fluid has the viscosity of molasses and it's making for realllllly smooth shifts.

So, my question is, WHY IS IT SHIFTING SO SMOOTH?! I can't accept the fact that greasing my u-joints and driveshafts or the ECU power-cycle would cause the transmission to begin shifting smoother because that would be way too easy!

Any thoughts? Am I witnessing my transmission going to pot?

***Important note: the transmission was replaced at 140k after my brother destroyed it trying to get out of a snowbank. The idiot decided to take it out for a little "winter fun" while my parents were out of town and just so happened to cause $4000 in repairs lol***

 

[BILT4ME]

Since you messed with the throttle body, I would look a the transmission kickdown cable on the TB first. It's either out of adjustment or it has been tweaked.

Also, since you had the battey unhooked, it has cleared all of your stored operating codes/shifting maps.

DId you press the "POWER" button on the console and RELEASE it so it shifts smoother?

 

[Chachi254]

Since you messed with the throttle body, I would look a the transmission kickdown cable on the TB first. It's either out of adjustment or it has been tweaked.

Also, since you had the battey unhooked, it has cleared all of your stored operating codes/shifting maps.

DId you press the "POWER" button on the console and RELEASE it so it shifts smoother?

I didn't remove the accelerator or tranny kick-down cables and made sure they were tight so I don't think that would be the issue. And if that is it, I prefer the smoother shifting so I'd probably keep it the way it is unless it'll hurt something?

I have not used the "POWER" or "2nd" buttons since the smooth shifting has started.

My driveshafts and U-joints were ridiculously dry and even squeaking while driving prior to greasing. I was experiencing a lot of clunking in stop-and-go traffic and thought it was my transmission shifting from 1st to 2nd, but maybe it was my driveshafts/u-joints?

My only plausible idea is that the ECU transmission shifting data was fully reset? I would have figured that the tranny shift sensors/learning process would actually be WORSE after resetting the ECU rather than BETTER, right? Wouldn't the idea be that the tranny would shift better and better as time went on and the ECU learned more about the vehicle? Given that the battery was disconnected for 8-days, I would guess that any ghost-voltage and all voltage stored in capacitors would have bled off and thus it allowed the ECU PCB to fully power-cycle.

 

[Technician1985]

Probably the kickdown cable, it directly affects how hard it shifts.

 

[Chachi254]

Probably the kickdown cable, it directly affects how hard it shifts.

But does/would the kickdown cable have any impact on shifting if I'm accelerating slowly without putting any additional pressure down on my gas pedal? I thought the kickdown cable was really only used when pressing down harder on the gas pedal so it downshifts the tranny and raises the RPM's so it accelerates faster? When I press down on the gas pedal hard, it downshifts as I'd expect it to.

Feel free to school me on how the kickdown cable actually works because I'm not sure I understand it - I have (10k miles ago) intentionally adjusted the kickdown cable before, ranging from very tight to very loose and it didn't change my shifting much at all. So, if a very tightly secured kickdown cable getting rubbed by the back of my hand while I installed the EGR valve was enough to change my shifting that drastically then I would think I have a different problem lol.

 

[Tools R Us]

But does/would the kickdown cable have any impact on shifting if I'm accelerating slowly without putting any additional pressure down on my gas pedal? I thought the kickdown cable was really only used when pressing down harder on the gas pedal so it downshifts the tranny and raises the RPM's so it accelerates faster? When I press down on the gas pedal hard, it downshifts as I'd expect it to.

Feel free to school me on how the kickdown cable actually works because I'm not sure I understand it - I have (10k miles ago) intentionally adjusted the kickdown cable before, ranging from very tight to very loose and it didn't change my shifting much at all. So, if a very tightly secured kickdown cable getting rubbed by the back of my hand while I installed the EGR valve was enough to change my shifting that drastically then I would think I have a different problem lol.

The "kickdown cable" moves the transmission system pressure regulator. As the throttle is opened, motor making more power, it causes the system pressure to go up, reducing clutch slip. Confirm that it is properly hooked up, then pull out on it, when released it should spring back, if not it is broken. Sounds like it's not working properly, if so, needs to be fixed, excessive slip is not a good thing, heat, clutch wear, etc.

 

[White Stripe]

Sounds like you got a visit from the transmission fairy. Not to be confused with the tranny fairy-which is a completely different thing.

 

[flintknapper]

Sounds like you got a visit from the transmission fairy. Not to be confused with the tranny fairy-which is a completely different thing.

^^^^^ Completely!

 

[elhombre]

If your U-joints were "squeaking", they are DONE. No one mentioned to check your fluid too. If the tranny is going out, the fluid will look terrible, and smell burnt too. Compare it to some brand new stuff. Get the cable adjusted correctly. It is very important. Then, drive it like you stole it for a while. If the thing is going the way of the Dodo, it will do it real soon.

 

[Tools R Us]

If your U-joints were "squeaking", they are DONE. ...

Maybe, or not. The factory joints are pretty durable/tough, have greased squeakers and had them live a long life after the event.

 

[Chachi254]

The "kickdown cable" moves the transmission system pressure regulator. As the throttle is opened, motor making more power, it causes the system pressure to go up, reducing clutch slip. Confirm that it is properly hooked up, then pull out on it, when released it should spring back, if not it is broken. Sounds like it's not working properly, if so, needs to be fixed, excessive slip is not a good thing, heat, clutch wear, etc.

Okay, I'll give it another look and will let you guys know what I find.

Maybe, or not. The factory joints are pretty durable/tough, have greased squeakers and had them live a long life after the event.

hahah the image that just produced in my head is too funny and weird to explain. Thank you for the very helpful comment lol

 

[Chachi254]

If your U-joints were "squeaking", they are DONE. No one mentioned to check your fluid too. If the tranny is going out, the fluid will look terrible, and smell burnt too. Compare it to some brand new stuff. Get the cable adjusted correctly. It is very important. Then, drive it like you stole it for a while. If the thing is going the way of the Dodo, it will do it real soon.

Maybe, or not. The factory joints are pretty durable/tough, have greased squeakers and had them live a long life after the event.

Now I'm conflicted at the opposing feelings on u-joint squeaks lol. But there's no more squeak :shrugs:

 

[BILT4ME]

Now I'm conflicted at the opposing feelings on u-joint squeaks lol. But there's no more squeak :shrugs:

Follow what Tools has to say. Squeaking is dry, but may not be worn out. If you greased them enough, you may have flushed out some of the crud.

I've done what he said and run a couple more years on the set of joints.

 

[Chachi254]

Get the cable adjusted correctly. It is very important. Then, drive it like you stole it for a while. If the thing is going the way of the Dodo, it will do it real soon.

The "kickdown cable" moves the transmission system pressure regulator. As the throttle is opened, motor making more power, it causes the system pressure to go up, reducing clutch slip. Confirm that it is properly hooked up, then pull out on it, when released it should spring back, if not it is broken. Sounds like it's not working properly, if so, needs to be fixed, excessive slip is not a good thing, heat, clutch wear, etc.

Probably the kickdown cable, it directly affects how hard it shifts.

Since you messed with the throttle body, I would look a the transmission kickdown cable on the TB first. It's either out of adjustment or it has been tweaked.

Sounds like you got a visit from the transmission fairy. Not to be confused with the tranny fairy-which is a completely different thing.

Okay, okay, okay you were ALL right (except for White Stripe, thank goodness, but that comment made my day lol). Thank you all for your input and offerings to help, and for not making me feel like a total idiot (or calling me one ha). I somehow managed to dislodge the end of the kickdown cable out of it's placement on the TB. I reconnected the kickdown cable and shifting has since returned to its prior state of jerkiness.

It was a PITA trying to slip it back into place given where it's located under the hood (and because I didn't want to wait for my engine to cool down because I'm impatient like that).



Update on the aforementioned squeaking:
It's worse than a u-joint I'm afraid... I only hear squeaks from time to time and only at low speeds. A little less than two months ago, I did a full knuckle rebuild on the DS due to my inner axle shaft seal failing horrendously. The rebuild came complete with new gaskets, knuckle bearings, inner and outer wheel bearings, seals, shims, the works (Marlin Crawler complete rebuild kit). I decided to jack up my DS front wheel to see if there was any play in the bearing, and there is... Which SUCKS. When I would grab the top and bottom of the tire and push/rock the wheel, it has a very small amount of play in it but there's still play... It's not too difficult to tear the hub down to make sure my axle nuts and washers are in place, but the stupid outer hub studs (male-to-male #43421B) that screw into the hub "flange" seem to keep cross-threading and breaking off and it makes the process awful.

I remember feeling uneasy about the way the rotor/wheel bearing assembly was seated on the spindle and I believe I may have overtightened my inner axle nut closest to the outer wheel bearing (#43521). I didn't have a wheel bearing nut socket so I followed the advice of many and used a common head screwdriver and a small soft-blow mallet to secure both the inner and outer axle shaft nuts. In addition to having possibly over-tightening the axle nuts, I also installed the washer backwards (#43510D -- the one goes between the outer wheel bearing and the inner axle nut). The washer has a groove on one side and I installed it with the groove facing the wrong way. I have read that the groove on the washer is an intentional OEM design but I've also read that the groove is actually the result of the bearing race cutting into the washer. What's the right answer?

Front axle - grooved thrust washer - Example post about grooved washer being from wear

I'm just blabbing now, but I know I'm going to need to stop at a hardware store to pick up some outer hub flange bolts and new nuts because they're going to get thrashed and I need to learn how to freaking properly preload my bearings because I believe that's my problem.

 

[BILT4ME]

Okay, okay, okay you were ALL right (except for White Stripe, thank goodness, but that comment made my day lol). Thank you all for your input and offerings to help, and for not making me feel like a total idiot (or calling me one ha). I somehow managed to dislodge the end of the kickdown cable out of it's placement on the TB. I reconnected the kickdown cable and shifting has since returned to its prior state of jerkiness.

It was a PITA trying to slip it back into place given where it's located under the hood (and because I didn't want to wait for my engine to cool down because I'm impatient like that).



Update on the aforementioned squeaking:
It's worse than a u-joint I'm afraid... I only hear squeaks from time to time and only at low speeds. A little less than two months ago, I did a full knuckle rebuild on the DS due to my inner axle shaft seal failing horrendously. The rebuild came complete with new gaskets, knuckle bearings, inner and outer wheel bearings, seals, shims, the works (Marlin Crawler complete rebuild kit). I decided to jack up my DS front wheel to see if there was any play in the bearing, and there is... Which SUCKS. When I would grab the top and bottom of the tire and push/rock the wheel, it has a very small amount of play in it but there's still play... It's not too difficult to tear the hub down to make sure my axle nuts and washers are in place, but the stupid outer hub studs (male-to-male #43421B) that screw into the hub "flange" seem to keep cross-threading and breaking off and it makes the process awful.

I remember feeling uneasy about the way the rotor/wheel bearing assembly was seated on the spindle and I believe I may have overtightened my inner axle nut closest to the outer wheel bearing (#43521). I didn't have a wheel bearing nut socket so I followed the advice of many and used a common head screwdriver and a small soft-blow mallet to secure both the inner and outer axle shaft nuts. In addition to having possibly over-tightening the axle nuts, I also installed the washer backwards (#43510D -- the one goes between the outer wheel bearing and the inner axle nut). The washer has a groove on one side and I installed it with the groove facing the wrong way. I have read that the groove on the washer is an intentional OEM design but I've also read that the groove is actually the result of the bearing race cutting into the washer. What's the right answer?

Front axle - grooved thrust washer - Example post about grooved washer being from wear

View attachment 1735926
I'm just blabbing now, but I know I'm going to need to stop at a hardware store to pick up some outer hub flange bolts and new nuts because they're going to get thrashed and I need to learn how to freaking properly preload my bearings because I believe that's my problem.

The groove in the washer is there because of the bearing grinding on it because the wheel bearings are too loose.
I frequently turn the washer around to change the wear surface against the bearing (clean side to bearing).

You NEED to buy a hub nut socket.

You need a torque wrench.

Torque the INNER nut to 45 LB-ft WHILE ROTATING
Back off the inner nut until finger tight
Re-torque the inner nut to 30 LB-FT
Slide on the star washer
Install the outer nut and tighten to 45 LB-FT.
Bend over the tabs on the star washer onto the flat of the nut, one tab in, one tab out.
Assemble the outer flange and snap ring.

Hopefully you have enough grease in between the bearings and packed into the bearings.

The outer flange hub studs will not be found at a local hardware store. buy them from Toyota if you NEED them. Don;t pound on those studs with a hammer unless it's brass.

These guys will deliver to your doorstep.

Toyota Parts | Toyota Online Parts | Genuine Toyota Parts | Toyota Parts Online

 

[Chachi254]

The groove in the washer is there because of the bearing grinding on it because the wheel bearings are too loose.
I frequently turn the washer around to change the wear surface against the bearing (clean side to bearing).

You NEED to buy a hub nut socket.

You need a torque wrench.

Torque the INNER nut to 45 LB-ft WHILE ROTATING
Back off the inner nut until finger tight
Re-torque the inner nut to 30 LB-FT
Slide on the star washer
Install the outer nut and tighten to 45 LB-FT.
Bend over the tabs on the star washer onto the flat of the nut, one tab in, one tab out.
Assemble the outer flange and snap ring.

Hopefully you have enough grease in between the bearings and packed into the bearings.

The outer flange hub studs will not be found at a local hardware store. buy them from Toyota if you NEED them. Don;t pound on those studs with a hammer unless it's brass.

These guys will deliver to your doorstep.

Toyota Parts | Toyota Online Parts | Genuine Toyota Parts | Toyota Parts Online

You are THE MAN. This is just what I needed to know. Thank you so much.

I will keep you updated on how it goes tonight.

Now, if there is only maybe a 1-2mm of play when shaking the wheel top to bottom, how unsafe is it to drive on? Like am I at risk for my wheel falling off ?

 

[BILT4ME]

No, you're not at risk of the wheel falling off. I have driven thousands of miles with loose wheels bearings.

HOWEVER, it wears the bearings more, creates poor wear patterns, and if you're driving FAST, you can over heat them and cause a failure which usually amounts to a race starting to spin on the spindle, wrecking the spindle and costing more money to repair.

So, Yes, you can drive on it.
I still recommend you get to it SOON.
Yes, you have time to order the parts and get them in and still drive it in the mean time.

You can also "rent" a torque wrench from your FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store), but most do NOT carry the correct sized 54MM hub socket.

FYI, I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky two on the wheel bearings and Valvoline Palladium in the knuckles (birfs).

 

[Chachi254]

No, you're not at risk of the wheel falling off. I have driven thousands of miles with loose wheels bearings.

HOWEVER, it wears the bearings more, creates poor wear patterns, and if you're driving FAST, you can over heat them and cause a failure which usually amounts to a race starting to spin on the spindle, wrecking the spindle and costing more money to repair.

So, Yes, you can drive on it.
I still recommend you get to it SOON.
Yes, you have time to order the parts and get them in and still drive it in the mean time.

You can also "rent" a torque wrench from your FLAPS (Friendly Local Auto Parts Store), but most do NOT carry the correct sized 54MM hub socket.

FYI, I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky two on the wheel bearings and Valvoline Palladium in the knuckles (birfs).

I’ve probably put 1500 miles on it since I did the knuckle rebuild but only recently started hearing the chirp. Is it possible the nuts came loose?

As for the grease — I’ve been using the Heavy Duty 3% Moly grease from Tractor Supply Co on everything. Is that bad?

 

[BILT4ME]

I’ve probably put 1500 miles on it since I did the knuckle rebuild but only recently started hearing the chirp. Is it possible the nuts came loose?

As for the grease — I’ve been using the Heavy Duty 3% Moly grease from Tractor Supply Co on everything. Is that bad?

Yes, it's very possible the nuts came loose. If you or whomever followed the factory service manual, they would not be adjusted properly.

There is controversy on using Moly grease on roller bearings. Some bearing manufacturers state to NOT use it because the reduced friction of Moly can cause the rollers to slide instead of roll, thus causing a high wear situation. (Maybe check yours?)

The other side says they've run for thousands of miles with that grease in their bearings and have never had an issue and the grease manufacturers will state it's safe to use in roller bearings.

My own personal opinion is I run red n tacky 2 lithium based grease in the bearings and the moly in the knuckles because they have different wear characteristics and that's what the FSM recommends.

Will it kill it? Unlikely, but maybe you're the first one........

If there's a squeal, you definitely need to get in there sooner than later.

 

[-Spike-]

That slight amount of play in the 6-12 o'clock positions could easily be trunnion bearing play.