Front Hub R&R: How to Know How Far to Go? (1 Viewer)

[GTV]

As far as I know the front hubs haven't been touched on my rig (aka the Unicorn) since @2001LC did all of his magic about 96k miles ago. I know, I've put them off for way too long. Recently I started hearing some occasional light squeaking from the left front so I pretty much stopped driving it until I could get to it. Today is the day I'm finally getting to it. I purchased new bearing kits from Cruiser Outfitters for the job.

BTW this is my first rodeo with 100 series hubs...

I decided to start with the passenger side since the drivers side also needs an inner CV boot and it hasn't arrived yet.

As expected with Paul's work, everything looks like it was done by Toyota themselves. No surprises. Spindle and bearing races cleaned up very well. It looks nice enough to me that I'm tempted to clean it all up, repack, install the new inner seal & lock tab and call it good. I can save the new bearings and races for another day.

Or since I'm here should I just pound the races out and install all new races/bearings? I haven't opened up the drivers side yet and it was the squeaky one... So how do I judge this? Treat each side as an individual and give it only what it needs or do a complete job to both hubs? I'm attempting to do one side at a time because I don't have a lot of space to work with.

Also, when does it become necessary to remove the hub from the rotor? I am going to get the rotors turned while I'm doing this job, I suppose that means they need to come off?

I appreciate your guidance mud!

 

[2001LC]

As far as I know the front hubs haven't been touched on my rig (aka the Unicorn) since @2001LC did all of his magic about 96k miles ago.

That's more than 3 times the recommended mileage interval. Questions I have; Was there any play in wheel hub/bearings? Does claw washer have scoring on side against wheel bearing?

This is tested, with tire off the ground. Grab at the 12 & 6 o'clock. "Any" play whatsoever? There should not be!

Second indicator, the bearings were too loose. They chatter (vibrate) resulting in claw washer scoring, on bearing side.

I know, I've put them off for way too long. Recently I started hearing some occasional light squeaking from the left front so I pretty much stopped driving it until I could get to it.

I've never heard wheel bearings squeak. What I do hear, is oscillating waw waw waw.
The axle needle bearing bad. I've heard a rotational low speed scrap, scape, scape. For lack of better word (scrap). Or wush, wush, wush...
Brass bushing, I've not really heard a discernible sound.

What I do often hear "squeak". Mostly at low speeds hitting ruts like a runoff gutter or going over bumps. Even more so, in slight turns while going through a rut or over bump. Lower ball joints failing.

This lower ball joint, is very bad. Notice, how as I lift 20lb 5' pry bar, under tire. The LCA moves up into (ball joint ball hinden by boot) knuckle, closing gap between LCA and steering knuckle. Any and I mean any close of gap. Is a bad ball joint.

Today is the day I'm finally getting to it. I purchased new bearing kits from Cruiser Outfitters for the job.

BTW this is my first rodeo with 100 series hubs...

I decided to start with the passenger side since the drivers side also needs an inner CV boot and it hasn't arrived yet.

In most cases. We see grease loss from inner boot at end, from under small clamp area. Most are not damaged boots. Just loose clamp. I reclamp, with small NAPA CV boot clamp.

Why is my 100 wearing out cv axles?

Did you mark the axle in some way to ensure they actually replace it? $600 is top dollar pricing for a CV and there's no new boot or new band. I'd pick a different dealership or a good Toy/Lex indy.

forum.ih8mud.com

If boot has hole and water entered and or to much grease loss for to long. May be best at replace FDS (AKA CV). Checking for play is first test, with boot on. If inner boot removed and bearis out. Inspecting ball bearings and the races, is final test/inspection.

This is inner race of inner CV. The outer race (CV inner tulip), isn't shown.

As expected with Paul's work, everything looks like it was done by Toyota themselves. No surprises. Spindle and bearing races cleaned up very well. It looks nice enough to me that I'm tempted to clean it all up, repack, install the new inner seal & lock tab and call it good. I can save the new bearings and races for another day.
View attachment 3857592
View attachment 3857593
View attachment 3857594

Or since I'm here should I just pound the races out and install all new races/bearings?

Tough call. Small race, I can't see well. Large race, looks a bit tired. Bearing condition, would be decider. But FWIW: Someone once did the math, based on Timken bearing spec/manual. He came up with expected life, of 250K miles. That would assume perfectly care for bearing, from day one. These were not! In fact I sand cross hatch, into races. To help condition marginal wheel bearings races ~96K miles ago.

I haven't opened up the drivers side yet and it was the squeaky one... So how do I judge this? Treat each side as an individual and give it only what it needs or do a complete job to both hubs? I'm attempting to do one side at a time because I don't have a lot of space to work with.

Also, when does it become necessary to remove the hub from the rotor? I am going to get the rotors turned while I'm doing this job, I suppose that means they need to come off?

I appreciate your guidance mud!

Axle needle bearing and brass bushing, need gearse. Toyota recommend lubing ever 30K miles. Score on axle, is out best indicator, of condition of needle bearing.

 

[GTV]

That's more than 3 times the recommended mileage interval. Questions I have; Was there any play in wheel hub/bearings? Does claw washer have scoring on side against wheel bearing?

Yes, I admit to neglecting this aspect of maintenance. I'm sure it would be a lot worse if it was done by an average mechanic, your attention to detail is very appreciated.
I did not personally check play in the passenger side hub before digging in. I should have. I did have an alignment done 19k miles ago (a high end extremely detailed alignment I might add) and the owner/tech mentioned there was a slight amount of play on the passenger side. He said it was nothing to be immediately alarmed about but something to keep in mind for the future. I will check the drivers side closely before I take anything apart.

To my eye the claw washer looks ok. I see witness marks from being installed and used, nothing to catch a fingernail on except for a small spot just clockwise from the locating tab. What I find interesting is the hex pattern witness mark on this side. The hex nut is of course on the opposite side when installed. Is this from heat? That being noted I wouldn't be afraid to polish this washer out and reinstall it. Interesting to note that the washer in my kit from Cruiser Outfitters is not grooved.
The outer bearing where it meets the washer looks very good. I still need to clean both bearings up though and inspect them closer.

In most cases. We see grease loss from inner boot at end, from under small clamp area. Most are not damaged boots. Just loose clamp. I reclamp, with small NAPA CV boot clamp.

I replaced the inner boot on the passenger side about 25k miles ago as it was torn. I caught it early enough and didn't see any abnormal wear to the CV joint. I've caught the drivers side even earlier (less grease loss at least), I haven't looked closely enough to see if it is just the clamp or the boot but I ordered the boot just in case. I think it would be wise to replace the boot and regrease anyway as it will allow me to inspect the bearings in the knuckle, maybe that's my squeak.

As of this moment I think I'm going to clean/polish everything on this passenger side, have the rotor turned and pack it full of new grease. I'll inspect it in another 30k like I should be doing.

I appreciate your guidance Paul!

 

[Malleus]

Wheel bearings should last far longer than 100k miles, even with less than stellar maintenance (repacking at intervals). The bearings Toyota specified for the Land Cruiser front wheels are for heavy axles. Land Cruisers have medium duty axles.

If your mechanic thinks any play in a wheel bearing is OK, let him work on other people's trucks. He's very wrong.

 

[GTV]

I just learned that the groove in the washer is an indication of wear. It's so uniform that it had me fooled. I'll replace it with new.

All of the bearings look great after cleaning them up. I'll replace the washer, lock ring and inner seal. I had the rotor machined flat.

Wheel bearings should last far longer than 100k miles, even with less than stellar maintenance (repacking at intervals). The bearings Toyota specified for the Land Cruiser front wheels are for heavy axles. Land Cruisers have medium duty axles.

If your mechanic thinks any play in a wheel bearing is OK, let him work on other people's trucks. He's very wrong.

I was expecting carnage considering I was 3x over the recommended service. These things are incredibly overbuilt.

Not my mechanic (I'm my mechanic), just the guy who did my alignment. I'm sure that the play he noticed must have been very, very slight but enough to make mention of it. I have been getting brake shudder for quite some time, I'm betting/hoping they are related.

 

[GTV]

Passenger side is done. Joy.

 

[GTV]

Oh, old fella who turned my rotor said he could have done it with the hub bolted on and it would theoretically come out straighter once it’s mounted to the knuckle. Seems legit.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Yeah, generally turning rotors on vehicle is preferred, takes into account any variance in the hub or spindle.

 

[2001LC]

I do make wheel bearing tight. I've seen one set in a DD I did, all stock go for, 90K before loosening. But not best practice to go that long before servicing.

We set breakaway perload (BWP), to ~12LB.
Within 2k miles, BWP down to ~ 7lb.
By 30k miles, BWP is ~1LB. (sooner in built rig). So we service, before we get any wheel hub play.

Why do they loosen in ~30K miles. Settling and wear.

What happens, as bearings loosen. Depends on how loose:

If allowed to loosen too much:

1. Loose wheel bearings, begin to chatter (vibrate).
2. Small outer wheel bearings chatter, pounding (scores) its race, into claw washer. Thinning claw washer.
3. Large inner wheel bearing race, is pounding on steering knuckles spindle back-stop.
4. Both claw washer and back-stop of spindle, pound/wear thin. Metal of claw washer and backstop of spindle thinning. Is effectively the same as, loosening the adjuster nut (no preload)
5. Bearings, now looen faster, and chatter increase as they do. The more they chatter, the more and faster they loosen.

The chatter, also turns hub flange into a power (vibrating) saw. Wearing (sawing) down outer axle splines (teeth) of front drive shaft (AKA FDS, AKA CV) and those in hub flange. More so, as snap ring to hub flange gap to wide (greater than spec 0.20mm)

Chatter also wears at, FDS outer axle snap ring groove and outer face of hub flange.
Chatter, also increase wear of axle brass bushing.
As they wear, snap ring to hub flange gap increase. Result in, excessive in and out movement of axle in though hub flange. This, in out movement, is pounding on snap ring. This can damage FDS axle splines (teeth) and axle snap ring glove to a point, FDS needs replacing.

Chatter transfers to axle needle bearing. Reducing needle bearing life.
Chatter transfers from FDS axle to bearing and races within the CVs. Reducing CV bearing life.

Loose wheel bearings and wheel hub wobble, effecting ABS system and braking:

As hub wobbles on spindle of steering knuckle. This, changes relationship (distance) of wheel speed sensor (fix to steering knuckle) to tone ring (back side of wheel hub). Often resulting in, ABS activation, during HWY turns or just ruts in the HWY surface/road.

Rotor wobble, result in rotor disk side to side movement. Pads work to center rotor, each push of brake pedal. Centering disk, not being the function of pads, is then similar to runout and or parallelism out of spec.

If wheel hub wobble get bad enough. Caliper body, can put a great deal of force on rotors disk as hub wobble them into it.. Disk can bust away from rotor hat.

Bottom line: Proper and timely PM, is key to reliability and keeping long term cost down.

 

[GTV]

Thanks Paul!
I did jack up the drivers side today and I can feel some movement in the bearings. Not a ton but it is noticeable. The ball joints look good. I'm digging into it tomorrow.

 

[2001LC]

The video above, of bad lower ball joint (LBJ). Was extremely bad one, having extreme movement into ball socket. What happens, is the grease drys out or becomes contaminated. They'll often then squeak, as ball to socket (metal to metal) wear away at each other without proper lubricant.

They start, with almost undetectable movement (ball into socket). Those, just starting to go bad. I find, making a video of LBJ. I'll find more of the bad ones, by reviewing the video. I'll also place my hand on boot, between Steering knuckle and LCA. To feel for movement of gap between them closing. Which is ball moving up into socket.

The LBJ, UBJ and TRE and brake pads wear indicator. Are the most common squeaks, we get from front end. In extreme cases of loose wheel bearings result in, rotor's disk rubbing on caliper squeak. Even less common, are shocks' bolt or nut loose, or bushing shot. Next would be control arm bushings. Which in one case, I found the upper control arm adjustor's bolt was loose and damaged the bushing.

Here's a LBJ that was squeaking. We must look very close, to see and almost undetectable movement. Where lower area (steering knuckle) moves up into boot closing gap between steering knuckle and LCA.
Notice lower area of boot movement. This was a squeaky ball joint.

 

[GTV]

Done. Luckily the CV boot wasn't torn this time. I put one of those fancy worm clamps on there and called it good. Rewarded myself with Perry Parts bump stops as well. The play in the hub is gone. Thanks for the help!

 

[2001LC]

BTW: Best practice, is to replace grease cap. Very often if not, they leak water into hub flange. Not sure what effect pound flat, has on the ability to seal out water.

 

[GTV]

BTW: Best practice, is to replace grease cap. Very often if not, they leak water into hub flange. Not sure what effect pound flat, has on the ability to seal out water.

I had to flatten them in order to fit my Rock Warriors with standard flat TRD caps and 3/4” spacers. They aren’t pretty, I admit, however they fit as tight as they ever have. But I’ll keep that in mind if I do water crossings. I can't imagine flattening a brand new cap every time it comes off.

 

[2001LC]

When water enters, it contaminates the grease. It will look milky brown:

I see 3 points of water entry:

1. Reused Grease cap, is by far most common point of water entry.
2. Seal in back knuckle/FDS. Mostly due to reuse of hub flange snap ring, resulting in excessive gap. But also from damaged seals. Also improper fitment of the two seal. Those outer axle seals, on some aftermarket.
3. Hub flange to wheel hub mate surface. Due to ponding off hub flange, damaging either or both hub flange and wheel hub.

Next 3 pictures are a 24K mile, pure stock DD. Reportedly, never in deep water. It also had factory hub caps on.
The brown mikely grease is sign of water contaminations. Water made it past reused grease cap.

Water then, passed through between axle and hub flange splines.

This one picture. Is separate cases, of grease cap reused resulting in water entry. Was in off-road built. So very likely in deep water (to axle). Where Slee spindle lube tool was use to lube axle needle bearing and brass bushing. Which pushes grease through the spindle cavity while axle in place (inside) it. Even though cavity full of grease, water made it's way to needle bearing & brass bushing.

I see 3 points of water entry:.

1. Reused Grease cap, is by far most common point of water entry.
2. Seal in back knuckle/FDS. Mostly due to reuse of hub flange snap ring, resulting in excessive gap.
3. Hub flange to wheel hub mate surface. Due to ponding off hub flange, damaging both hub flange and wheel hub.

 

[Jack90210]

This is a great thread, Paul. This kind of detailed failure analysis is super helpful.

I'm following closely because I'm about to do the front end (LCA/UCA, flanges, tie rod ends, steering rack) and am wondering not only which parts to re-use, but what to look for.

 

[2001LC]

This is a great thread, Paul. This kind of detailed failure analysis is super helpful.

I'm following closely because I'm about to do the front end (LCA/UCA, flanges, tie rod ends, steering rack) and am wondering not only which parts to re-use, but what to look for.

For the most part. Let the FSM be your guide.