Ken all cool now , no worries this end, thread is coming along like a house on fire
Front Axle Rebuild - For FAQ (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Romer
- Start date
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topend yobbo said:
LOL!....
That's because he uses gasoline (petrol) as a solvent...:hillbilly
Clarify some confusion for me. As far as I understand it shouldn't the inner axle seal as well as the inner axle shaft itself get a good goopy greasing as they're assembled? I would think shoving that thing through without any grease would, well, hurt! Thanks, awesome writeup again!
I wouldn't overdo the grease, just enough so that the axle can slide through, but no excess. When the axle arrives at its final resting place, that seal rides around the smooth, flat surface just behind the birfield joint, where it only needs a thin film of grease. When inserting the axle, you need to lift up on the entire assembly, relieving as much weight as you can on the seal as you slide the shaft through. Only at the last minute will the seal see some slight pressure as you press down on the joint, causing the inner end of the shaft to slide up and into the 3rd member.
Just a suggestion: instead of using a screwdriver to pull the seals (inner and hub) after my experience with using a screwdriver (trying to leverage the thing when it let go and the edge of the rotor landed on two fingers and at first I thought I had cut them off, then thought I had broken them, but I just mashed them real bad) I'd highly advocate just going and getting a seal puller. It's like $5 and worked like a dream compared to the screwdriver. I just noticed it wasn't included in the parts list.
I second the use of the seal puller.
For what it is worth, I was able to rent from Autozone a seal puller with slide hammer and a set of seal installers ( I can't remember the actual name...Looks the same as the SST in the FSM, it's crazy late
).
Probably didn't need a full hammer, but it worked easy and was basically free.
Paid for the tools. Get all your money back when you return them with a receipt. Great deal.
TR
For what it is worth, I was able to rent from Autozone a seal puller with slide hammer and a set of seal installers ( I can't remember the actual name...Looks the same as the SST in the FSM, it's crazy late
). Probably didn't need a full hammer, but it worked easy and was basically free.
Paid for the tools. Get all your money back when you return them with a receipt. Great deal.
TR
powderpig
SILVER Star
Lots of great info and great work ken.
One suggestion is about removing the axle. The 80 series axle is easly removed from the birfield, very rarely is the cir-clip damaged as Norm suggests. Especially if the axle is removed with a pipe.
As for the biggest reason for me to remove the axle is to inspect the cage for any cracks and chips. If the cage has cracks it is really time to replace the birfied or have it rebuilt(biggest reason for the 80 series birfild to break). Also I have found chips of metal in the past from chiped cages. A little bit of chips is ok, but if big chips are out of the cage, is is also time to replace, as the cage holds the balls in place. If the balls are not held in the proper pattern and travel, this leads to the cage getting broke.
Another reason is to properly pack the inner area with grease, I beleive that unless the birfied is taken apart, the inner area could contain contamated grease or the cleaning materials that the birifeil was soaking in. Thus mixing the grease with the solvent and weaking the grease. Just one man's opinion.
Again great write up and wondeful information. you are a asset to this board.
later robbie
One suggestion is about removing the axle. The 80 series axle is easly removed from the birfield, very rarely is the cir-clip damaged as Norm suggests. Especially if the axle is removed with a pipe.
As for the biggest reason for me to remove the axle is to inspect the cage for any cracks and chips. If the cage has cracks it is really time to replace the birfied or have it rebuilt(biggest reason for the 80 series birfild to break). Also I have found chips of metal in the past from chiped cages. A little bit of chips is ok, but if big chips are out of the cage, is is also time to replace, as the cage holds the balls in place. If the balls are not held in the proper pattern and travel, this leads to the cage getting broke.
Another reason is to properly pack the inner area with grease, I beleive that unless the birfied is taken apart, the inner area could contain contamated grease or the cleaning materials that the birifeil was soaking in. Thus mixing the grease with the solvent and weaking the grease. Just one man's opinion.
Again great write up and wondeful information. you are a asset to this board.
later robbie
I thought I would add a pic of some of the SSTs needed for a front axle rebuild. I carry the flag tip external circlip pliers and the hub nut socket with me on the trail (amongst others) but the seal removal tool I leave in the tool cabinet at home.
Mick
Mick
Mickldo said:I thought I would add a pic of some of the SSTs needed for a front axle rebuild. I carry the flag tip external circlip pliers and the hub nut socket with me on the trail (amongst others) but the seal removal tool I leave in the tool cabinet at home.
View attachment 70142
Great write up!
x 12. Thanks for the seal removal pic! That was the only tool i was missing from the rebuild. I had a feeling there had to be another method than prying on the seal with a large flathead screwdriver.
Man what a great write up just before I tear into mine!
I do have one thing to add that I did not see mentioned, after soaking the birfield joints in gas or diesel fuel they must be well sprayed with brake cleaner. Gas will leave a type of varnish which prevents grease from fully contacting the metal surface and lead to premature wear.
Oh and I'll just add that I prefer to use silicon grease on all my new seals over petroleum based grease.
I do have one thing to add that I did not see mentioned, after soaking the birfield joints in gas or diesel fuel they must be well sprayed with brake cleaner. Gas will leave a type of varnish which prevents grease from fully contacting the metal surface and lead to premature wear.
Oh and I'll just add that I prefer to use silicon grease on all my new seals over petroleum based grease.
powderpig said:
A quick question please ... I know I have seen the answer elsewhere but a super quick search did not reveal it readily, and, I thought it might be a good part of the FAQ ...
What size PVC pipe is used to crack the birfield open? I can see that several different sizes might work well enough but what is the best size? Also, is the pipe to rest only on the cage, only on the bell, or on both as you drop the birf and pipe? Also is the 'drop' from a few inches a few feet or should I go up to the roof of the house and aim for the driveway???
Thanks.
turbocruiser said:What size PVC pipe is used to crack the birfield open? I can see that several different sizes might work well enough but what is the best size? Also, is the pipe to rest only on the cage, only on the bell, or on both as you drop the birf and pipe? Also is the 'drop' from a few inches a few feet or should I go up to the roof of the house and aim for the driveway???
I use a steel 2" diameter pipe. I never paid attention to what part of the birfield it contacts. Mine is 4 feet long, I slide the axle in and drop it on concrete from about 24". Use the street so you don't chip your own driveway.
Romer great write up love all of the pics.
Couple notes,
Post # 3 is kind of ambiguous. It should become obvious to someone doing this task but in the interest of completeness
“With the cone washers removed from the Flange, remove the Drive Plate. After the flange is removed you will need to use a snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring”
Should probably read something like
“after the cone washers are out remove the snap ring on the end of the stub axle shaft, you will need to use a snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring, With the cone washers and snap ring removed, remove the Drive Plate.”
Post 5 better to take out the outer bearing as it has a tendency to fall out, if it falls out onto concrete the rollers can be damaged preventing reuse of an otherwise good bearing.
Post 19, the FSM calls out for approximately ¾ full of grease,
I did check my preload, it was just fine with the shims reinstalled as from the factory so perhaps wasted time but I know that preload is OK,
But I did not check the knuckle centering, now that Doug has sourced the special tool and centered his knuckle I now feel inadequate as a mechanic.
Tool pics
From top to bottom
1. Well balanced Mac brass hammer, good for many of the beating operations in the birf rebuild.
2. TRE remover, bring nut to end of stud to protect threads, if tightening it does not remove a stubborn TRE, hit tool with brass hammer it will pop out, never use a pickle fork on anything you want to reuse.
3. Home made seal installer, brass/aluminum
4. Snap-On # SRP2 pliers
First time I got into my front end all I has was round tipped snap ring pliers, they will take the ring off but are a real pain to install the ring
These SRP2 pliers really work well, they are flat and have a indentation that grabs into the points for the ring, worth the investment if you are going to be going to be working with these rings on a regular basis.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=3578&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
You could probably make the same by drilling some depressions in the tip of a flat snap ring pliers and save some cash
5. T-type seal puller from Napa IIRC, marked K-D 3245, woks perfectly on inner axle seal and inner bearing seal, also works on valve cover spark plug tube seals but take a little fiddling to get a good bite.
6. Creapy tool included for effect, so far not useful on a Toyota,
To the right numerous brass drifts, probably most useful for a birf repack is a 3/8” dia x 8” or so.
Second pic is detail of tip on SRP2 pliers
3rd pic, pic of assembled birf more apropriate for an 80 series
one other thing that could be talked about is that the birf assembly diagram in the FSM is of the older mini birf, someone forgot to revise the FSM for the new style birf,
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=13063
Couple notes,
Post # 3 is kind of ambiguous. It should become obvious to someone doing this task but in the interest of completeness
“With the cone washers removed from the Flange, remove the Drive Plate. After the flange is removed you will need to use a snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring”
Should probably read something like
“after the cone washers are out remove the snap ring on the end of the stub axle shaft, you will need to use a snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring, With the cone washers and snap ring removed, remove the Drive Plate.”
Post 5 better to take out the outer bearing as it has a tendency to fall out, if it falls out onto concrete the rollers can be damaged preventing reuse of an otherwise good bearing.
Post 19, the FSM calls out for approximately ¾ full of grease,
Romer said:
I did check my preload, it was just fine with the shims reinstalled as from the factory so perhaps wasted time but I know that preload is OK,
But I did not check the knuckle centering, now that Doug has sourced the special tool and centered his knuckle I now feel inadequate as a mechanic.
Tool pics
From top to bottom
1. Well balanced Mac brass hammer, good for many of the beating operations in the birf rebuild.
2. TRE remover, bring nut to end of stud to protect threads, if tightening it does not remove a stubborn TRE, hit tool with brass hammer it will pop out, never use a pickle fork on anything you want to reuse.
3. Home made seal installer, brass/aluminum
4. Snap-On # SRP2 pliers
First time I got into my front end all I has was round tipped snap ring pliers, they will take the ring off but are a real pain to install the ring
These SRP2 pliers really work well, they are flat and have a indentation that grabs into the points for the ring, worth the investment if you are going to be going to be working with these rings on a regular basis.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=3578&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
You could probably make the same by drilling some depressions in the tip of a flat snap ring pliers and save some cash
5. T-type seal puller from Napa IIRC, marked K-D 3245, woks perfectly on inner axle seal and inner bearing seal, also works on valve cover spark plug tube seals but take a little fiddling to get a good bite.
6. Creapy tool included for effect, so far not useful on a Toyota,
To the right numerous brass drifts, probably most useful for a birf repack is a 3/8” dia x 8” or so.
Second pic is detail of tip on SRP2 pliers
3rd pic, pic of assembled birf more apropriate for an 80 series
one other thing that could be talked about is that the birf assembly diagram in the FSM is of the older mini birf, someone forgot to revise the FSM for the new style birf,
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=13063
Last edited:
"6. Creapy tool included for effect, so far not useful on a Toyota"
Probably the most expensive "tool" you have on the rack.....Or...absolutely the most expensive tool you have on the rack. I'm betting that the guy it came out of is a bit more "creepy" now that it is gone.
TR
Probably the most expensive "tool" you have on the rack.....Or...absolutely the most expensive tool you have on the rack. I'm betting that the guy it came out of is a bit more "creepy" now that it is gone.
TR
One thing I think worth mentioning that I did not see:
Be certain the inboard side of the outer of the two hub nuts is perfectly smooth before turning it down on the tab washer. Some "mechanics" use a screwdriver and a hammer to loosen/tighten hub nuts, marring them. One such nut was marred on both sides of a hub nut on my brother's cruiser. We didn't pay attention to this and chewed the little tab in the center of the washer off when we snugged the outer nut up. Of course, this made the tab now incapable of isolating the inner and outer nuts such that when we tightended the outer nut, the inner would go with it and the pre-load would go up.
Quite a pain to have this happen right near the end of a full day's work!
Be certain the inboard side of the outer of the two hub nuts is perfectly smooth before turning it down on the tab washer. Some "mechanics" use a screwdriver and a hammer to loosen/tighten hub nuts, marring them. One such nut was marred on both sides of a hub nut on my brother's cruiser. We didn't pay attention to this and chewed the little tab in the center of the washer off when we snugged the outer nut up. Of course, this made the tab now incapable of isolating the inner and outer nuts such that when we tightended the outer nut, the inner would go with it and the pre-load would go up.
Quite a pain to have this happen right near the end of a full day's work!
Tarbe, I found the same chissle marks on mine, presumably from when the PO had the rotors replaced, did not think about then brabign the lock washer and damaging it, but I did take a file to them to remove the burs,
I had better give soem back story before the cops show up at my door, was actually a never installed reject, so no one is missing anything, got it at a garrage sale for a buck, the guy was some kind of medical supply salesman, he did tell me how much it cost, do not remeber the figure but remember it was very high, instalation is even higher, works great for installing bulb seals,
whatever it is made out of is quite durable.
TroutRunner said:
I had better give soem back story before the cops show up at my door, was actually a never installed reject, so no one is missing anything, got it at a garrage sale for a buck, the guy was some kind of medical supply salesman, he did tell me how much it cost, do not remeber the figure but remember it was very high, instalation is even higher, works great for installing bulb seals,
whatever it is made out of is quite durable.
RavenTai said:
Titanium baby!! I'll have to keep my eyes open for one of those. Perhaps I can find one on Ebay.
TR
very nice!
Great thread! I wish I had taken as many good pics of removing my head for the head gasket job now. Maybe I can still recover.
Great thread! I wish I had taken as many good pics of removing my head for the head gasket job now. Maybe I can still recover.
cruiserdan said:
Hey Dan, whaddabout the four studs to the knuckle itself ( you know the four with the torx heads that I'm replacing the regular studs with )??? I'm assuming the 71 lbft is for the nuts on those studs? Is it the same for the studs, I could not find that in the FSM either? Thanks.
turbocruiser said:Hey Dan, whaddabout the four studs to the knuckle itself ( you know the four with the torx heads that I'm replacing the regular studs with )??? I'm assuming the 71 lbft is for the nuts on those studs? Is it the same for the studs, I could not find that in the FSM either? Thanks.
Sorry I sorta asked the same thing on two different threads!
To polish that problem out, let me link things up! From other thread:
cruiserdan said:
Also from other thread regarding locktite:
Cruiserdrew said:
AND...
landtank said:
On other thread regarding torque specs:
Cruiserdrew said:
AND...
turbocruiser said:Well, as an update, I went with 35 lbs and red locktite. I cannot imagine 50 pounds; I purposely avoided clamping the knuckle down too tight to the vise or anything at all like that - I simply held the knuckle down with my left arm and held it steady with my knees - I really wanted to feel the force I was exerting on those studs and anything more than 35 lbs, while possible, felt way too tight. I'll make this part of my regular torque tests and report back IF the studs ever actually back out. Thanks all.
HTH Polish it up!
