For John. N74L vs N101

[ShottsUZJ100]

Actually John, quite the opposite is true. I have 33's now. Since I added the N74L's, I only had to use a half inch bumpstop spacer to keep the N74L's from bottoming out. So, I actually gained 2.1 inches of total travel over the N101's.

I gained the additional 2.6 inches of droop like you did on your rig. But, because I'm running 33's, I don't need the 2 inch spacer to keep the tires from rubbing. Thus, I am gaining 2.1 inches of total travel. (2.6 inches of travel minus the .5 inch bump stop extension)

So, thank you for going through all this for me, because I actually gained 2.1 inches in total travel. In my opinion, for some very basic mods, I was able to gain a substantial amount of wheel travel.

Nolan, I would love to compare at CM06 just to put this issue to rest. Hopefully, we can run the same obstacles and compare the difference. The nice thing is our 100's are very similarly built so there shouldn't be a lot of other variables to factor in. See you in a week or so!

Makes sense. I was going by the older 2" lowered stops required info. Now that the 1/2" has been proven to work......WOW! Excellent. Excellent. I'm sure you can tell that difference.

I am puzzled why on the 80-series they say the bumpstop must be lowered 2" to protect the shock. The trucks are a tad different though...so....?? I wonder if this should be investigated now?

Isn't "travel" the distance between one's compressed and extended length? I know on my truck that I compress more DESPITE having the same bump-stop as before. I can tell this because I rub the frame and other parts now and I did not before (though this could simply be the angle of the tires due to the angle of the rear axle?). I can also tell I extend more because of measurements. Pictures show both of these changes.

So on my 100 with 2" stops and 35's...I'm certain we're adding almost the full 2.6" travel. We have that in extension alone. Am I making sense Greg?

 

[Greg B]

Makes sense. I was going by the older 2" lowered stops required info. Now that the 1/2" has been proven to work......WOW! Excellent. Excellent. I'm sure you can tell that difference.

I am puzzled why on the 80-series they say the bumpstop must be lowered 2" to protect the shock. The trucks are a tad different though...so....?? I wonder if this should be investigated now?

Isn't "travel" the distance between one's compressed and extended length? I know on my truck that I compress more DESPITE having the same bump-stop as before. I can tell this because I rub the frame and other parts now and I did not before (though this could simply be the angle of the tires due to the angle of the rear axle?). I can also tell I extend more because of measurements. Pictures show both of these changes.

So on my 100 with 2" stops and 35's...I'm certain we're adding almost the full 2.6" travel. We have that in extension alone. Am I making sense Greg?

We are both gaining travel on our rigs. We were both running N101's, so adding the N74L's allows us to gain 2.6 inches of droop. For you, you lost 2 inches of travel when you were running N101's and 2 inch bumpstop extensions to fit the 315's. For a while there, your real axle was very limited in travel.

Where the confusion is coming from is that when you added N74L's, you gained that 2 inches of travel plus another .6 inch. So, from your perspective, you gained 2.6 inches of total travel.

That would NOT be the case for someone else though that isn't already running the 2 inch bumpstop extensions. For instance, someone like Bull, who just did everything all at once, he is in a different situation. Since he went with N74L's and 315's at the same time, he's going to have to add 2 inch bumpstop extensions which will cause him to lose 2 inches of up-travel or he'll have to do a body lift and/or relocate the shock mounts like Darren has suggested. He will lose this travel whether he mounts N101's or N74L's.

So, for Bull, adding the N74L's only nets him about .6 inch of total travel more than if he were running N101's because he is running 315's. The 315's are what is really causing this whole confusing situation. Dealing with keeping the 315's from rubbing is done by either a bumpstop extension or a body lift. Any time you add a bumpstop extension, you are going to lose some travel.

Now, in my case, I don't have to have bumpstop extensions at all to run 33's. However, because Darren was gracious enough to post up the dimensions of the rear axle compressed into the bumpstop, I was able to determine that a .5 inch bumpstop was needed to keep the N74L from bottoming out on full compression.

So, that gives me the same amount of droop as your 100, but I only lose .5 inch on the upstroke instead of 2 inches. So, my total travel is going to be 1.5 inches longer than you on the same shock. Is that clear as mud?

 

[wngrog]

Nolan, I would love to compare at CM06 just to put this issue to rest. Hopefully, we can run the same obstacles and compare the difference. The nice thing is our 100's are very similarly built so there shouldn't be a lot of other variables to factor in. See you in a week or so!

Yeah, maybe we can run over to a close trail one day like Hell's Revenge or Fins and Things and do the exact same lines and see if that extra travel makes any difference.

That would be fun.

When are you getting there?

 

[Greg B]

Yeah, maybe we can run over to a close trail one day like Hell's Revenge or Fins and Things and do the exact same lines and see if that extra travel makes any difference.

That would be fun.

When are you getting there?

Sounds good to me. We'll be coming in Wed. mid-morning.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Now, in my case, I don't have to have bumpstop extensions at all to run 33's. However, because Darren was gracious enough to post up the dimensions of the rear axle compressed into the bumpstop, I was able to determine that a .5 inch bumpstop was needed to keep the N74L from bottoming out on full compression.

So, that gives me the same amount of droop as your 100, but I only lose .5 inch on the upstroke instead of 2 inches. So, my total travel is going to be 1.5 inches longer than you on the same shock. Is that clear as mud?

Right on. We're on the same page.

Now, my next move...to challenge the 2" bumpstop spec on the 80-series L-shock install. What if one only needs to lower it 1/2 as well? IF so, I'm there.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Yeah, maybe we can run over to a close trail one day like Hell's Revenge or Fins and Things and do the exact same lines and see if that extra travel makes any difference.

That would be fun.

When are you getting there?

You will be a believer after this comparison my friend!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Sounds good to me. We'll be coming in Wed. mid-morning.

Do me a favor guys. Take some side-by-side pics. I know ATS wants to see more pics.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Right on. We're on the same page.

Now, my next move...to challenge the 2" bumpstop spec on the 80-series L-shock install. What if one only needs to lower it 1/2 as well? IF so, I'm there.

Its taken a while, but it looks like its sinking in......

Now John, when you keep asking for pics and info, should I just tell you i dont care, and it works, and my wife tells me it made a difference, and all the guys i wheel with say it is much better?


While your on the 80 as well, maybe you could look at the easy mount re jig and gain the whole extra travel of the longer shock, rather than .6" of extra

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Its taken a while, but it looks like its sinking in......

Now John, when you keep asking for pics and info, should I just tell you i dont care, and it works, and my wife tells me it made a difference, and all the guys i wheel with say it is much better?


While your on the 80 as well, maybe you could look at the easy mount re jig and gain the whole extra travel of the longer shock, rather than .6" of extra

We're glad you don't care. We've already shown you're full of it.

We should make a list of members for whom the N74L mod has improved their trucks.

Shotts
Bull
Greg

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

John,
i think its pretty evident no one denies .6" of extra travel wouldnt help somewhere, the difference is, Greg and Bull have gone closer to what i was saying to you initially, that gaining the whole 2.6" is even better than just your .6"

Its all in the end package, and greg and bull seem to have improved in the area's required to use all of the shock, easily, where as you have just moved pretty much the samre amount of travel down 2" from original position, and gained .6' in travel.

Thats why our Bilstein shock design has been N74L + length for the last 3 years, to gain ALL of the travel, like Greg and Bull, not just shift the available travel like yours.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John,
i think its pretty evident no one denies .6" of extra travel wouldnt help somewhere, the difference is, Greg and Bull have gone closer to what i was saying to you initially, that gaining the whole 2.6" is even better than just your .6"

Its all in the end package, and greg and bull seem to have improved in the area's required to use all of the shock, easily, where as you have just moved pretty much the samre amount of travel down 2" from original position, and gained .6' in travel.

Thats why our Bilstein shock design has been N74L + length for the last 3 years, to gain ALL of the travel, like Greg and Bull, not just shift the available travel like yours.

You need to stop making an ??????? of yourself!

I gained 2.6" of down-travel compared to MY PREVIOUS setup. Whether one gains travel UP or DOWN it's travel. You keep comparing an apple with an orange.

Calamaridog ran a diffcult run with me yesterday. Ask him about the difference in travel and stability of his OME standard setup vs mine with the N74L.

You need to take a deep breath and stop misinforming these folks. Actually, it doesn't matter. After Cruise Moab I'm sure more positive evidence of the gains will be revealed.

You should start posting in a new 0.6" thread.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

For those interested.....here's a shot of the sway bar at full extension. It does push against the shock as you can see. The force is not enough to hurt the shock though. We might try to correct this and we might not. This does show that there's no room for added articulation without further mods.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

I gained 2.6" of down-travel compared to MY PREVIOUS setup. Whether one gains travel UP or DOWN it's travel. You should start posting in a new 0.6" thread.

You gained travel from your previous set up, because both set ups havent optimised whats available for you, so you only gained .6" because you didnt think it out enough.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

For those interested.....here's a shot of the sway bar at full extension. It does push against the shock as you can see. The force is not enough to hurt the shock though. We might try to correct this and we might not. This does show that there's no room for added articulation without further mods.

John,
you should re phrase that to "no room for more travel with OME shocks and the swat bar where it is"

Our shocks are smaller dia so it doesnt have the same problem as your experiencing while you try and figure out the mods you have done so far.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Drop the swaybar links down and you will have enough clearance.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Drop the swaybar links down and you will have enough clearance.

And it should drop by the amount of the lift, technically, to keep it in the right position, so its probably a good time for John to start grasping another mod

 

[calamaridog]

John has just about as much travel as is currently possible with his 35's and currently available bolt-on crap.

His rig worked way better than mine did on all the hard obsticles we encountered during our Sunday wheeling trip. The difference in our trucks was obvious to me.

The next step would be customizing the suspension and adding high quality components. Any good suspension fabricator could make gains with some custom work. All it takes is time and money.

I doubt he will do this on his current 100 but I have big plans for his next one

 

[SINCITY100]

I think we ALL know that the 74L mod makes a reasonable difference (however meager to many ) to the 100 and its nice to hear from other owner`s perspectives on the performance gains that John`s sworn by mod ACTUALLY affords, but now that its proven effective lets work on more FUTURE tasks... like maybe another friggin inch of travel in the front end or something

Why is your current 100 so quick to be dismissed ? I have heard you mention the "next" one, yada yada...Why not make (your current) one a...

FRANKEN100 !! ?

Keep going with your 100 and make us proud John....

But for god sakes lets let the 74L saga end !

Peace Y`all !
Sin

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

But for god sakes lets let the 74L saga end !
Sin

I thought it had, and John was now being shown you can actually get more travel than he thinks because the sway bar hits, but it is being explained how to fix that now

 

[spressomon]

Drop the swaybar links down and you will have enough clearance.

Christo...are you splicing the existing hanger/link or is there another fix?