skully3
SILVER Star
FJ40 Frame Rivet Replacement? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JVZii
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
- Threads
- 1,391
- Messages
- 35,253
- Location
- 818-953-9230
- Website
- www.marksoffroad.net
Looking forward to seeing this.
If it works, you're gonna have to answer a lot of questions about tool and material sources, along with techniques.
And you're gonna earn a lot of
If you want to do rivets right just buy one of these.
If you use bolts make sure you aren't just looking for the bling bolts in structural areas. We all like stainless but stainless is seldom
better than a grade 2 bolt. Buttonheads are the best looking, black oxide will need paint, zinced is available in grade 8 from
places like Fastenall. Most places only offer black oxide in the grade 8
Effective rivets are installed either hot or with extreme hydraulic pressure. The idea is when the rivet is installed and set very hot ,
it will shrink while cooling , clamping the joined pieces tighter as it cools. You can't go really go back and and tighten a loose rivet.
You can tighten a bolt. If you're getting very technical, the bolt used in place of a rivet should be passed through a hole with as tight a tolerance as possible to avoid loosening or plate shifting. If you decide to experiment for the first time on your frame with frame rivets
you better be OK with tearing the body back off a year from now if it all loosens up.
Many if not all semi chassis' have switch to Huck bolts finding that both the install and longevity are better. I've used these on site
on structural architectural jobs, joining I-beams and such
Introducing the Huck C6L
If you use bolts make sure you aren't just looking for the bling bolts in structural areas. We all like stainless but stainless is seldom
better than a grade 2 bolt. Buttonheads are the best looking, black oxide will need paint, zinced is available in grade 8 from
places like Fastenall. Most places only offer black oxide in the grade 8
Effective rivets are installed either hot or with extreme hydraulic pressure. The idea is when the rivet is installed and set very hot ,
it will shrink while cooling , clamping the joined pieces tighter as it cools. You can't go really go back and and tighten a loose rivet.
You can tighten a bolt. If you're getting very technical, the bolt used in place of a rivet should be passed through a hole with as tight a tolerance as possible to avoid loosening or plate shifting. If you decide to experiment for the first time on your frame with frame rivets
you better be OK with tearing the body back off a year from now if it all loosens up.
Many if not all semi chassis' have switch to Huck bolts finding that both the install and longevity are better. I've used these on site
on structural architectural jobs, joining I-beams and such
Introducing the Huck C6L
middlecalf
SILVER Star
Called those Hi-Loks in the aerospace world a while back. Wonder how available those huckbolts are for the general public.
As far as riveting, how are you bucking the backside? Some type of clamp (but would have to be able to clamp on the inside of the frame and box channel somehow)?
As far as riveting, how are you bucking the backside? Some type of clamp (but would have to be able to clamp on the inside of the frame and box channel somehow)?
wow, those are nice tools youve got there, @skully3 , would be great if you place the size of the rivets in the locations u used.
I have a rusty frame that i got for parts, and started removing rivets, I could not get one rivet to even budge out, even with a air hammer, with a 10 pound mallet and chisel. I forgot that i have a plasma cutter, so that is next in the few days off..
I dont have an Oxy/acet system. I tried Mapp, but lol, that is just for toast and jelly.....
I have a rusty frame that i got for parts, and started removing rivets, I could not get one rivet to even budge out, even with a air hammer, with a 10 pound mallet and chisel. I forgot that i have a plasma cutter, so that is next in the few days off..
I dont have an Oxy/acet system. I tried Mapp, but lol, that is just for toast and jelly.....
dodored
That ain't your cake Phillip! That's Simones cake!
The most non-destructive way to remove a rivet is to drill it out. Grind the head off and drill it with a bit that is the same size as the hole the rivet is in. Torching can sometimes cut into the frame while cutting the rivet head off if the angle on the torch is not perfectly parallel. You can also hand grind the head off, heat up the rivet with a torch, and then pop them out with a hammer and punch. I have done this on frames that were riveted in the 1930s, and have found these are the cleanest methods.
skully3
SILVER Star
Ok so getting closer. I will post up exact specs once i get real results is the frame. I found the holes are too irregular once you punch the old rivet out. In order to get a consistent buck of the tail the hole that its going through must be the same size every time. So I decided to make 8mm head rivets from the 3/8 stock ones readily available. Here are some trial and error results.
I was able to get perfect results each time once I got the right combination of hole size and tail length.
I was able to get perfect results each time once I got the right combination of hole size and tail length.
teleskier
SILVER Star
This ought to do it for a 40.
easy two minute rivet removal
more
Any updates here?
kiwidog
Kiwidog
Have used a couple of different methods as "replacement" rivets The holes in the frame are 9 mm for the most part. Finding 9mm rivets can be a little trying. 3/8 diameter rivets are reasonably easy to obtain. Google is you friend. 9 mm is equal to 0.354 inches and 3/8 is 0.375 so close and you can drill the holes out to suit 3/8 rivets. The important thing is getting the rivet the correct length to buck it to the so the head you form looks close to the original. Need to experiment a little before trying in the real thing.
The other option is to use bolts that have a rivet style head instead of a hex head. So where do you find such a thing? You have to make them. If you start with a 10mm x 1.25 x 20/25mm long DIN style bolts( Not JIC 10mm bolts with a 14mm AF head) that have a 17mm AF head size there is enough material to make a head that looks very much like the original Toyota rivet. The back side will have a nut and washer and you can use JIC nuts with the correct 14mm AF head . Only the very curious will notice. The bolts are 10.9 grade so probably close to grade 8 so plenty strong. You will need lathe or friend with one. If you ask nice I may oblige.
Hope this helps
Thanks jb
The other option is to use bolts that have a rivet style head instead of a hex head. So where do you find such a thing? You have to make them. If you start with a 10mm x 1.25 x 20/25mm long DIN style bolts( Not JIC 10mm bolts with a 14mm AF head) that have a 17mm AF head size there is enough material to make a head that looks very much like the original Toyota rivet. The back side will have a nut and washer and you can use JIC nuts with the correct 14mm AF head . Only the very curious will notice. The bolts are 10.9 grade so probably close to grade 8 so plenty strong. You will need lathe or friend with one. If you ask nice I may oblige.
Hope this helps
Thanks jb
Stexag
SILVER Star
Question.
PO on my 40 did an terribly atrocious homemade lift to the truck. They removed the spring/frame perches then welded some heavy wall 2x2 square tubing to the bottom of the frame, then welded the perches to the tubing. Now I want to get things back right; so I bought some new perches for the front and ordered some take-offs for the rear . Once I get my frame cleaned up and see how things line up I will see about re-attaching the new perches...
Is this something that can be accomplished with just bolts, if the holes are still tight? Or should I use bolts in combination with some welding? I just don't know if I have the equipment to properly rivet something this important, but kiwi dog has inspired me to dust off the lathe.
PO on my 40 did an terribly atrocious homemade lift to the truck. They removed the spring/frame perches then welded some heavy wall 2x2 square tubing to the bottom of the frame, then welded the perches to the tubing. Now I want to get things back right; so I bought some new perches for the front and ordered some take-offs for the rear . Once I get my frame cleaned up and see how things line up I will see about re-attaching the new perches...
Is this something that can be accomplished with just bolts, if the holes are still tight? Or should I use bolts in combination with some welding? I just don't know if I have the equipment to properly rivet something this important, but kiwi dog has inspired me to dust off the lathe.
Hi Mate. I'm re-riveting an FJ40 LX chassis and struggling to find the right rivet setter tool for the air hammer to do the job. Could you please tell me were you got those pictured here? Got a link?
Try McMaster-Carr in the states or Product Details here in aus.
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
- Threads
- 1,391
- Messages
- 35,253
- Location
- 818-953-9230
- Website
- www.marksoffroad.net
I’m surprised no one answered your question; I never saw it until now. The shackle hangers were originally riveted AND welded to the frame. I think it is totsafe to replace them with bolts, provided you also do at least as much welding as the factory used.
Mark
So after doing tons of homework on this, I think I’m going with huck bobtail rivets instead of bolts and captive nuts.
Any updates?
Yes, can't seem to make the huck bolts thing work mostly because the equipment is so dang expensive and there aren't any rental places near me.
My current best solution is to just bolt it back together. My primary concern is vibration causing bolts to loosen. I think I have a pretty good solution for that. I'm using button head bolts with epoxy threadlock going into flange bolts that are secured using the Nord-Lock X locking washers.
I also considered welding the nuts in and using the Nord-Lock X washers under the bolt heads. That seems like it would be a better solution but I really don't want to weld black-phosphate or zinc coated nuts.
I'm really disappointed that I can't make the huck bolts happen. They are pretty standard in semi truck frames now.
Let me know what you think of my bolting solution.
