Builds Finally got my own...Meet BeBe

[gregnash]

No stripped threads that I can tell. Think part of it has to do with the "aftermarket" gasket that is being sold by NAPA. I am going to order some small parts from ToyotaPartsDeal and grab a couple of those gaskets to see what the real difference is between what is being sold aftermarket vs. OEM. The aftermarket one fit the drain plug perfectly but was a dense, rigid plastic.

 

[gregnash]

As many of you have heard me bitch and complain, part of the reason that I want to move to EFI is fuel economy. A little over a month ago I swapped @HemiAlex's spare carb on BeBe to allow me to troubleshoot some issues with mine, did a full rebuild and whatnot. But along with that was the fact that really, I get ABYSMAL gas mileage. If I jump on the highway then she does all right for the most part but normal driving for me, especially when it is cold and I don't commute via bike to work, is the 2.5 mile drive to my office. I do this four times a day as I run home at lunch to let the dogs out and what not. So normal daily commute is 10 miles with lots of traffic lights and whatnot.

Finally got through an ENTIRE tank on Alex's carb and this happened yesterday...
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
Yes that is correct, 6.3mpg for that tank. Think when I hit the reset on the trip odometer I was at about 114 miles.

Trying to troubleshoot what the hell is happening here because that is just stupid. I can live with my avg or 9-10mpg but this has been happening for a few months now.
Been through the following to troubleshoot;
- Fuel screw turned out 3.25-3.5 turns
- Idle set at about 700rpm
- Fuel filter is clean
- Timing set to about 10* (maybe 12* have to recheck)
- No brake drag or anything as I just fixed and issues with brakes but wasn't experiencing anything in the first place
- No slipping clutch
- No excessive vacuum or exhaust leaks

Things I have noticed or haven't done yet...
- Air Filter is fairly new if I remember correctly but may just swap out for the process and sake of sanity
- Compression is good as per my numbers on my garage wall (all above 130 with one cylinder at 126)
- Only occasional gas smell but think that is due to my cat being kaput
- Rear axle pinion seems to be weeping slightly, probably time for a rear axle rebuild this spring
- Always had lots of oil and much all over the oil cooler and dig on that side
- Cold starts are harder with Alex's carb for some reason. Use to be that I could do 5 pumps of gas (10 on a really cold day) pull choke and she would fire to life. Now if it is below 35* and she hasn't run since I got home at 4pm the night before we are talking 20+ pumps and she will fire.

So I am reaching out to the great collective to help me troubleshoot this. Don't have a lot of money to just throw parts at her right now but need her to start running well again.

 

[gilamonster]

Definitely, something wrong with the carb/fuel system. At least in my opinion. Even in 5-15 degree temps, mine starts with 3-4 pumps of gas. 10-20 pumps will be wasting a lot of gas every day.

 

[Miloslavich]

From what I've gained on the forum, aftermarket carbs are no replacement for a true AISN Toyota carb. Maybe that plays a factor.
You shouldn't be getting 6mpg. thats rough. Have you been letting her warm up excessively or anything else? compensating for your tire size correctly? remember to include that into your calculations.

if you notice, the EFI swaps haven't netted much MPG gain. most folks just note how smooth it runs, which I attribute to not having a second barrel and jet engaging on WOT. The way I see it, its just adding complexity and more failure points for not much gain. My desmogged factory Jim C carb is smooth as silk and doesn't need an ECU, extra wiring, a fuel pump, a Wideband heated O2 sensor.. etc etc.

I'd rebuild your carb, check your spark plugs to see if they are fouled and you've been running rich, and go from there. The key here is the proper carb. Have you done a Vacuum test? how many inMg are you pulling?

 

[gregnash]

Alex's carb is his old AISIN and my carb is the original from the truck so no aftermarket carb here. System is desmogged aside from not having the dizzy or carb specifically desmogged by JimC.
For the excessive warm-up, normal morning is that truck is choked for 5 mins, then I go out push it in to let idle normal. Idle time in the driveway is anywhere from 10-15 mins.

Tire pressure is standard 40psi and they are only 31s to no real change for size compensation.

Vacuum test hasn't been done in a while but has always been strong around 19inMg based on my current altitude of 4600'.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Get your fuel at a new place for a few fill ups? Or change the time your filling?

 

[gilamonster]

Sounds like cutting your idle time for a week or two would give you a good chance to see how much of an effect that's having. At five work days a week, that's an hour of no return on consumption. I usually start it and go, no warm up. Choke goes off a mile down the road.

I'm sure you would've noticed, but you don't have leak somewhere? My old fuel pump did start leaking, but it leaves a strong smell if you do.

 

[RodrigzCrzr]

Greg
How about lay off the skinny pedal when your driving?
Lol !! Just kidding!
You definitely must have something wrong somewhere.
Vacuum lines or a leak.
Don't know.

 

[gregnash]

Definitely will try cutting the idle time and see how that helps. Gas fill-ups rotate between multiple stations between home and work so not a creature of habit going to only one station. I do realize that it is winter blend going around so that may not help things.

Could possibly be that the fuel pump is leaking as I do occasionally get a heavy fuel smell when I get out but that is random and not consistent. But it is the OG pump so with probably around 200k on it that is most likely culprit in my mind.

Skinny pedal doesn't get a LOT of use as this is a land cruiser and pretty sure that yesterday a guy in a LARK on the sidewalk beat me off the line and across the street. LOL. Let's put it this way, when my wife is consistently driving the 4Runner the avg hovers right around 17mpg, when I drive it it tends to hang around 18-19mpg... Just sayin'

 

[Miloslavich]

Tell your wife to lay off the skinny pedal! jk jk

I think your idle times certainly play a factor. That and you may be running rich. Did you desmog with the HAC valve? is it working correctly? Vac test for sure, check your overall Vac numbers, and pull a few spark plugs to see if you're running rich. pretty easy stuff to check for now.

idle times and winter gas certainly dont help.

Ive been getting "Straight 88" ethanol free gas here.. awesome stuff for the LC

 

[gregnash]

I will try pulling some stuff and see what I come up with.

@Miloslavich what do you mean by desmog the HAC valve? Wasn't aware it could be desmogged?
We have one place, on the opposite side of town, that sells the ethanol free stuff, but they charge as much as premium for it so not worth it to me to drive all the way out there to fill up.

 

[Miloslavich]

When I desmogged I kept my HAC, because in Colorado I see a lot of altitude changes. thats what I meant. not that you had to modify the valve, but I was asking if you used it or not. some guys delete it. I say keep it if it works correctly.

 

[gregnash]

Since I stay above 4500' but occasionally go down to see my dad who is at about 100' above sea level I have kept it.

 

[OSS]

Some other things that will lower mpg (besides the carb) up in the cold mountains:

1. 4500 ft elevation. Less oxygen. Less power.
2. No Hot Air Intake system (that duct that drops down from the air cleaner neck to enable drawing in hot air next to the exhaust manifold. That system improves combustion efficiency when it's cold.
3. 190° thermostat working correctly
4. Short trips (2.5 miles) in town with stop lights.
5. Excessive idling.

31" tires will make the odometer record 10% lower miles (on my cruiser).

 

[gregnash]

New fun-ness this morning. For the first time in months was actually had snow over the weekend, which meant the temps dipped into the teens. Supposed to be like this most of the week and into next where it does not get above the high 30s to low 40s. Looks like winter is showing up a bit late this year.

Anyways, yesterday Bebe didn't move or get started as the wife and I just hung for the holiday and what venturing out we did do was in Betty, BeBe's sister. So going out to try and start her this morning after sitting for more than a day in the cold was interesting..

Close to a total of 40+ pumps before she even tried to turn over. After than took maybe 10 before she fired up and then heard a real REAL nasty grinding noise and felt in the steering wheel for a good 10 seconds before it subsided. Figure the noise was the cold and probably somewhat drained power steering pump shaft.

Main concern though was the 40+ pumps to get her to kick over. Wondering if my fuel pump is starting to die? Up until this year she never had this issue and believe me, last winter was LOTS colder for LOTS longer.

 

[gilamonster]

Could be-another thing I've had happen was the accelerator pump wasn't pumping very much gas into the carb. So, when I pumped the pedal, just a tiny bit was dribbling down into it. Almost killed my battery that night trying to get it started after work. But, it did make it the 5 miles home-running really lean. I know you were using a borrowed carb, could be time to switch to the rebuilt.

 

[gregnash]

Yeah that is the plan this coming weekend as we have nothing planned (at least that I am aware of at this point). That and changing brakes for the whole truck.

That reminds me, I need to measure the AC pump stroke per the FSM on my rebuilt carb.
Oh and also, according to my fuel gauge I am down a quarter of a tank and have gone 27.8 miles?! Definitely got something going on that is killing my mpgs.

 

[OSS]

I wonder if the float bowl even holds 40 real pumps of gas. Instead of doing that (plumping the gas pedal forever) maybe try cranking the engine over 5 revs before pulling the choke or before pumping the gas. Just crank it over dry without attempting to start it.

That will fill the float bowl first to ensure its at the correct level.
Then pump the gas pedal a few times w the choke and see if that helps. But if you've got to pump it that many times - the AP pump is shot.

I've also noticed when it real cold, that after I pump the gas pedal a few times before attempting to start it and then just wait 30-60 seconds to allow the fuel to vaporize a little in the manifold, the engine catches much faster.

 

[Mid TN]

Listen................greg...................greg...............it's the cruiser whisper!

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

^^^ I second @OSS to prime the carb first. He told how to do this when I first started the truck after the top end rebuild. I now do it every time. Although I pump the gas along w/ the turning of the key. I “believe” w/o giving the pedal a push it doesn’t seem to prime as readily.