FAQ addition: Dual Battery Set-Ups

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Here's some tips about how to make sure you set up your system so that it charges properly and you get the most out of your system...

It's simple as long as you use the right bits, and put it together the right way……

Auxiliary Batteries.

Basically you should be thinking about how big a battery can you fit, and less about how small and cheap a battery you can get away with, the larger the battery the less percentage wise you will be draining it, and the longer it will last both in power usage and battery life, with the extra advantage of more capacity when needed.

Hot Tip … Most people don't realise that Batteries love being fully charged, they don’t like being discharged at all, they like it when you only take them down to 50% of their capacity and then top them back up soon after, they will lose capacity and die quickly when left discharged for long lengths of time.

Deciding on what size and type of Auxiliary Batteries to use is really a whole other story, I only use quality AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) batteries as they charge FASTER off an alternator and they can withstand being drawn down to 80% without reducing their life versus a standard lead acid deep cycle only at 50% - so for the same AMP hour rating, you get 30% more USABLE AMP Hours. I use a 90 AMP Hour AGM that was about $350 AUD - that gives me up to 72 USABLE amp hours versus a 90 amp hour led acid (not much different in cost for a good one) which would only give me 45 amp hour usable and that is if it was fully charged by a smart charger(You wont fully charge a standard lead acid off an alternator - you will only generally get to 80% charged at best by an alternator so you really would only have 26 usable amp hours max - where as an AGM will get real close to 100% charged by an alternator) - when you understand this concept - it is cheaper in the long run to go AGM as you wont shorten the life when you drain them down like you will with a lead acid because of the above.

The battery isolator is a device that allows the cars alternator to recharge the auxiliary battery while protecting the cars starting battery from discharging, if these batteries are simply linked together you run the very real risk of draining them both to a level that you can not start the engine, and there are many other reasons why you should not do it this way.

There are many different methods used to isolate the batteries, most use some form of solenoid, this is an electronic switch that can handle large (charging) currents, much more than standard switches can, and they are operated by applying a small amount of power to them, this is turn actuates a solenoid that links the batteries together so that large currents and be passed between the batteries.

There are many ways to operate these battery isolators, some much better that others.

The cheapest way is that you manually turn them on and off, the problem with this is that sooner or later people will forget to turn the switch on (no charge goes into the aux battery) or off at the right time (and then the starting battery gets drained as well).

Another way of doing it is to have the solenoid turn on as soon as you start the engine up, and turn off when you shut down the engine, this has been the cheap way of doing it for many years, but it’s far from ideal.

I believe the best way for most situations is to use a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) activated solenoid, and the one I like the best and use is one of the most inexpensive ones, it does the job very well, and as good as, and sometimes better than many of the very expensive ones too which is from Redarc.

The way it works is that when you start your engine the Redarc is first letting your starter battery recover it’s charge, it lets it achieve 13.2 volts, at this point that battery has about as much charge in it as it's going to get, once the Redarc sees this 13.2 volts it closes the contacts on the solenoid, this links both batteries together for charging purposes.

The next thing the Redarc is looking for is 12.5 volts, in other words you have shut down your engine and started to draw power from the batteries, so very quickly the voltage across both batteries will fall to 12.5 volts, as soon as the Redarc sees this voltage it will open the solenoid contacts and isolate the batteries, leaving your starting battery for starting and your auxiliary battery for auxiliarying....

The Redarc Smart Start battery isolator is rated at 100Amps constant duty with a surge capacity of 400Amps, it has silver contacts unlike some of the cheaper ones that have copper (silver is much better), the Redarc also has spike protection so it won’t upset the delicate electronics on newer vehicles, you can pick up a Redarc at $150 AUD

The Wiring & Cable is the other most important ingredient.
Wiring…this is without doubt where many people get it wrong and end up with a system that may work, but nowhere near as well as it could and should, If you do it right, you can double the usable capacity of your auxiliary batteries over and above what many people normally have, and help the batteries charge much faster and last longer too.

Understand that when charging from vehicle alternator one of your biggest enemies is voltage drop, you need to have the highest possible voltage at the auxiliary battery, this will allow it to charge as quickly as possible, and as fully as possible.

A lot standard set-ups that have been fitted by the so called professionals is where they use twin 6mm auto cable (really 4.59mm²), this is next to useless for fast deep charging.

A very basic explanation would be, that the larger the current draw, the larger the wire needs to be, and the further the distance the wire needs to run, the increasingly larger again the wire needs to be.

Use no less than 6 B&S cable.

A very important thing to consider is where you are going to place your batteries, standard open wet cell batteries give off hydrogen gas when they are charging and discharging, this is a very explosive gas, remember the Hindenburg, there is no problem if you are putting the auxiliary battery under the bonnet of your vehicle, or mounting it somewhere on the chassis with good ventilation to the open air.

Just throwing them under a seat is far from ideal and just down right dangerous, even worse some people place battery chargers and even inverters next to these batteries, just think about that for a moment, a hydrogen producing device next to a possible spark producing device.

Wet cell batteries must be housed in a properly vented area, all but Gel and AGM batteries must be well vented externally away from any ignition source and from human habitat areas, hydrogen gas rises so sealed battery enclosures should be vented externally top and bottom.

If you need to place batteries inside vehicles, then AGM batteries should be seriously considered here as they are totally sealed, AGM batteries if placed in an enclosure only need to be vented to atmosphere not necessarily vented externally.

Putting AGM batteries under the car bonnet is fine as far as safety goes, the only consideration here is that AGM’s and Gel batteries should be kept away from the extreme temperatures of turbochargers, and if they must be placed close to the turbocharger then heat shields should be used. There is a lot of byth about this heat subject when people look at the specs - the specs on heat with AGM's are CHARGING TEMPS - ie. temps that result from charging not Ambient temps.

Now it needs to be wired up, this is much simpler than most people think, it is not complex, and as long as you take care almost anyone can do it.

Some more tips………

Do not install the maxi fuses until the last thing, when you have completely finished all the cable runs and tightened up all connections. Make sure you use maxi fuses not standard blade fuses which cause resistance.

Although not always totally necessary (some people can use the chassis for earth return), but it really is best to run the earth/negative cable all the way between the start and auxiliary batteries, for the extra few dollars in cable it really is worth it.

If you can mount the Redarc close enough to the start battery you can use the maxi fuse as the link, there for saving having to add a short bit of cable onto one end of the fuse cable.

When running the cables between the batteries you should take great care with where you place the cable, making sure that it won’t rub or be cut through, also be careful to keep it clear of sharp corners etc, and if the auxiliary battery is going to be placed anywhere other than under the bonnet, you should seriously consider using a protective covering like split convoluting tubing and secure it well with clips or cable ties at well spaced intervals.

The cable should also be protected against short circuit, and I have found the most economical way to protect the cable is with Maxi fuses of 100A, an all too common mistake made by many people and even some auto sparkies is that they only fuse at one battery (normally the starting battery), but the cable needs to be protected from both ends, i.e. a fuse at both batteries, after all it is being feed from both batteries.

All cable lugs used with the 6 B&S cable are far too big to be crimped with standard crimping tools, so they should be crimped by an auto electrician, or you can solder them if you have a gas torch, they do take a lot of heat to solder on properly - and you should be aware that Soldering is not the ideal as Soldered joints in an environment with constant vibration has potential for problems unless the soldering is done very well with high temps - even then, professional crimping is my preferred method.

The Redarc battery isolator has two wires coming from it, one blue and one black, and it has two terminals for attaching heavy cable, now the blue wire is rarely used, so lets forget about that one for the time being, the black one is simply an earth that should be secured under one of the screws that you mount the Redarc to the vehicle with.

Now with the terminals, the one with the small black box attached to it is where you connect the cable from the start battery positive terminal, and the other terminal gets connected to the cable that goes to the positive on the auxiliary battery, it's that simple, next the earth/negative cable simply gets connected to the negative terminal of both batteries, see easy.............

Now the blue wire coming from the Redarc, most people don’t need to use this wire, is for back-starting(starting off both batteries in an emergency), and/or putting a indicator light on the dash of your car. If you want an LED light to come on when the smart charger is linking the batteries for charging then run a small 2mmsq wire from that terminal to one side of an LED and the other side of the LED to a ground. If you want a remote button on the dash(there is one on the Redarc already - but obviously that is under the bonnet) then connect a 2mmsq wire to this terminal and run it to a momentary sprung switch on the dash. Then, run the other side of the switch back to the positive terminal of the auxiliary battery. When you want to join both batteries for an emergency start - hold the button down while cranking and then release when the car is started.

I have no association with Redarc products - this is based on experience of the best type of unit I have found.

Below is an example of how an auxiliary battery set-up may be done - (without the switch or LED)
Redarc.webp
 
Great post above on tipe to watch out for. I noticed there were not any good Natinal Luna installs

so here is a good one I found doing a search it has links to other installs. There is more in the thread, but here is the jist of it

I figured I'd post a thread here with some pic's & details. Hopefully it will save other electrical novices like myself some time.

I wanted to go with a dual battery setup as I'm adding an Engel fridge in the back. A winch is also planned later this year. I wanted the simplest install due to my limited electrical knowledge. After reading through all of the dual battery threads about a dozen times each I decided to go with the National Luna system. The only downside seemed to be the $375 price tag. After pricing cable at West Marine (almost $4/ft. for 6 ga) the price didn't seem so bad considering it comes with 40' of slightly heavier cable as well as the "intelligent solenoid", controller, connetctors, etc. The kit is complete, the only thing I chose to buy was some heat shrink and split loom.

On a side note, the cable supplied is 16mm2 gauge. This converts to 5ga. AWG-
AWG - metric conversion table


My first step was to install a Slee washer bottle relocation kit and battery tray from a '91 LC. Installing the NL system was very straightforward. I did steal many of my install ideas from a few threads-

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/175892-national-luna-dual-battery-install.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/220528-who-has-national-luna-dual-battery-setup.html

National Luna Dual battery install - Expedition Portal Forums

The entire install consists of-

-Mount the intelligent solenoid
-Run a fused hot wire from the solenoid to each battery
-Run a ground wire between the batteries
-Run the controller cable from the solenoid into the cab.
-Connect a ground wire from the solenoid to the aux. battery
-Plug in the controller to the solenoid

Here is a schematic - simple.

battery1.jpg

I mounted the brain (intelligent solenoid) to the back of the aux. battery tray-

battery1-1.jpg


In position-

battery2-1.jpg


The hot wire from the solenoid to the aux. battery gets a 50-amp fuse-

battery3.jpg

The hot wire from the solenoid to the main battery gets a 100-amp fuse. I ran this wire under the aux. battery tray and under the crossbar near the top of the radiator. I protected this with split loom when I finished the install-

battery4.jpg


Wire coming thru on the drivers side-

battery5.jpg


To the 100-amp fuse I mounted inside the fender. The cable will go from this to the pos. terminal on the main battery-

battery6.jpg

The controller gets mounted in the cab. This is where I passed the black wire through the firewall to get it into the cab. (the two red wires are to my two 12v circuits in the back)-

battery7.jpg


Here is the wire as I brought it into the cab. You need to reach up as high as you can on the firewall to fish it out-

battery8.jpg


Drop the glovebox and route it up behind the ashtray-

battery9.jpg


Route the connector into the ashtray opening-

battery10.jpg

I ran the 5ga. ground wire in front of the radiator to connect the two negative terminals on the batteries. The only other connection was the small ground wire from the solenoid to the aux. battery negative post. They say to do this connection last and the unit will blink once to signal all is well.

I went with Sears Platinums for the batteries. A series 34 for the main and 34M (marine) for the aux. That was another few days of reading.....

The only downside with the Platinums is that the terminals are reversed. I ended up flipping them around for two reasons. First, the battery hold down brackets were too close to the terminals for comfort. Second, there was no way to get the existing wires on the main battery all the way to the front without getting creative (the fusible link & other junk on the positive side couldn't easily be pulled through the opening in the tray).

Here's a pic. of it completed. The kit makes for a clean install-

battery14.jpg


Drivers side. Just a cable to each battery post-

battery15.jpg


I had plenty of 5ga. left in the kit to go from the battery to firewall. I went from the aux. positive post to a 40-amp fuse block that I bought at West Marine. This goes to a fuse block on the firewall (currently with two 15-amp fuses feeding receptacles in the rear)-

battery16.jpg
 
I am trying to install my dual battery kit right now using the FJ-80 battery tray. I have trimmed the tray so that it fits around the radiator but i have a question.

How did y'all deal with the A/C hose that runs directly underneath the tray. I have cut out a little bit of room for it but i am worried that with the vibration of the engine it might wear a hole through the tube.

I thought about just taking some hose slightly bigger than the A/C hose, wrapping it around the A/C hose and using it as an insulator.
 
To accommodate the A/C line, I kept trimming the tray until it did not put pressure on it. In the end, I cut out a little more than I actually needed and had to install a metal bracket to reinforce the box. Careful trimming should be able to avoid that, just taking out enough of the ribs or ridges that stiffen the bottom of the box to clear the line.

I then used spiral electrical cable wrap around the A/C line where it just touched under there.

Oh yeah, be careful of the fiberglass fibers when you cut into the OEM battery box. I was careful, but still should've used plastic gloves.:doh:
 
No need to cut the tray. There is a spacer block that mounts the A/C line on the front radiator support IIRC. Remove that space and the A/C line fits snuggly under the tray.
 
No need to cut the tray. There is a spacer block that mounts the A/C line on the front radiator support IIRC. Remove that space and the A/C line fits snuggly under the tray.

Darn, missed that:hhmm:
Thanks, though.

But won't change what's already done:doh:

If I ever take it all apart for some reason, the box itself is cheap enough to replace. It's good and solid, so I'm not going to sweat it, but a neat tip to know if you've read through the whole thread...which I did several times, a great resource.
 
No need to cut the tray. There is a spacer block that mounts the A/C line on the front radiator support IIRC. Remove that space and the A/C line fits snuggly under the tray.

Any pictures of this?

Having a hard time visualizing what you mean. :hhmm:
 
K, figured out the hose dilemma. Where is a good spot to attach the negative ground on the auxiliary battery?
 
K, figured out the hose dilemma. Where is a good spot to attach the negative ground on the auxiliary battery?

I found when doing mine that when I attached the ground to the PS fender ground (its the same location as the DS one just on the opposite fender) it wasn't a good enough ground for my system and it drove me nuts. As soon as I lengthened the 0AWG cable and grounded it to the engine block I was good to go.

Everything still operates perfectly with no little gremlins.
 
Thats how it was done on my last vehicle it was on. Which bolt did ya use? The one that attaches the engine mounts to the engine?


I found when doing mine that when I attached the ground to the PS fender ground (its the same location as the DS one just on the opposite fender) it wasn't a good enough ground for my system and it drove me nuts. As soon as I lengthened the 0AWG cable and grounded it to the engine block I was good to go.

Everything still operates perfectly with no little gremlins.
 
I have the same 97, I used the bolt that holds the arm that is supporting the accelerator cable. Its just a piece of formed metal and I have the ground cable sharing that bolt.
 
I have the same 97, I used the bolt that holds the arm that is supporting the accelerator cable. Its just a piece of formed metal and I have the ground cable sharing that bolt.

I'll have to take a look to see if i can find what you are talking about. Any pics? :)
 
I grounded my aux battery by using a 00ga cable from negative post to negative post, battery to battery - it lays perfectly on top of the radiator where the foam interface is.

You can see it easily enough here:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/104630-faq-addition-dual-battery-set-ups-2.html#post1313490

Since I use my batteries as a single bank (parallel) most of the time, it made sense to me to have a 100% reliable & dead simple ground holding them together.

Everything else grounds to a stud off of the back of the primary battery box.

My solution is/was brute force, manual and dead simple - nothing overly elegant about it.
 
I there anything wrong with just using an isolator only? I have this one from previous installs Battery-Related Products | Battery Isolators48120 | Cole Hersee - Littelfuse and it has been fine in the past. Is there something different about the 80 series that I don't know? If I don't have to spend extra cash I would prefer not to. Thanks in advance.

The 80 series alternator is internally regulated, you will loose a bit over half a volt in output with that kind of isolator
 
The 80 series alternator is internally regulated, you will loose a bit over half a volt in output with that kind of isolator
Forgive my ignorance on this, but it that a big deal? I like the installs that have the Blue Sea Systems Add-A-Battery for about $110. Would you think that is a better setup vs running just this isolater?
 
Half a volt drop in charging voltage will prevent the battery from reaching a full charge reducing the batteries resting voltage and amp-hour capacity, basically the battery charged under these conditions will act like a smaller battery, running out of juice earlier than it should on discharge, my rough guesstimate is a bout a quarter less capacity, is that a big deal? it is to me since there are other options out there.

I don't know enough about the blue sea add a battery to advise, i have a solenoid from them of a different type that I am happy with.
 
Combined Aux battery tray and transfer Skid plate

I have a diesel 80 with 24 volt system. Thus the engine bay is already packed with 2 batteries and a compressor. But in front of the tank is a large unfilled space. Perfect for a battery. There are also the benefits of having the heavy thing as low as possible, and in the middle of the car.
Since I also needed a transfer skid plate the solution turned out to be a combination.
The cross member and skid plate is made out of 3/4" steel. If I was to start again I would have used a U-profile for the cross member, as I had to stiffen it up quite a bit.
The tray gives place to a 105 Ah battery. The solution is waterproof. The AGM battery is already sealed, and I have placed grease filled cups on the connectors.
I added a 2,5 mm skid plate underneath the battery to protect from mud and snow.

SNC15565.webp


SNC15569.webp


SNC15579.webp
 
Awesome! Be sure to insulate the positive terminal really well in case the battery gets pushed upwards by anything.
 

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