Factory Subwoofer Info Guide

[Murckman]

Yes, it is just over 4" at the top and gets deeper towards the bottom.

Good catch Ratchey. Nothing worse than taking something apart and you’re brand new part doesn’t fit. Probably should have specified initially I’m LC with JBL not LX with ML. Quick search and appears our enclosures are identical with the exception of of the actual sub diameter and hole cutout. Had I of thought it out better I could have cut out the opening and put in a 10”. Either way I’m happy with the 8. Here’s a pic of my LC enclosure and a used LX570 ML enclosure on eBay.

 

[grinchy]

oh, totally my mistake on an assumption . . . thanks for the spot @Ratchey

 

[sigmundsauer]

Murckman,

so how does the CBT sub compare to the factory sub in terms of volume and low frequency extension?

Also, any tips for installation to make pulling panels apart safer or easier?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[CharlieS]

At least on my land cruiser that panel comes out fairly easily (but I do already have my rear seats removed). Remove the mid and rear row seat belt anchor bolts. Remove the little hook near the rear gate (quarter turn), then the Phillips screw underneath. Pop out the panel inside the third row seat release with a trim tool and remove the bolt (Philips or 10mm?). Pop out the panel that goes between the cargo area and the lower tailgate hatch (just plastic trim fasteners). This will expose a single black plastic trim fastener, whose pin you push in to remove, at the base of side trim panel. As I recall, you may need to remove the sill trim on the second row (pop out the circular trim cover, remove the single 10mm/Philips bolt, then pop out in the upward direction. The large rear trim panel hiding the subwoofer pops out with minor force, at this point only being held in by a bunch of white plastic trim fasteners. The amount it can come outward is limited by the cable on the seat release - that removes toward the back with four plastic clips (that are integral to the handle assembly). It sounds worse than it is...

 

[sigmundsauer]

Thank you, Charlie. That was helpful.

I’m always nervous when trying to pop out trim panels. I never know what type of connector is anchoring it or how much force is appropriate and invariably make the wrong call eventually - snap!

Tim

 

[Murckman]

Thank you, Charlie. That was helpful.

I’m always nervous when trying to pop out trim panels. I never know what type of connector is anchoring it or how much force is appropriate and invariably make the wrong call eventually - snap!

Tim

PM me your email and I will send you the guide. Makes it really easy.

 

[LL247]

At least on my land cruiser that panel comes out fairly easily (but I do already have my rear seats removed). Remove the mid and rear row seat belt anchor bolts. Remove the little hook near the rear gate (quarter turn), then the Phillips screw underneath. Pop out the panel inside the third row seat release with a trim tool and remove the bolt (Philips or 10mm?). Pop out the panel that goes between the cargo area and the lower tailgate hatch (just plastic trim fasteners). This will expose a single black plastic trim fastener, whose pin you push in to remove, at the base of side trim panel. As I recall, you may need to remove the sill trim on the second row (pop out the circular trim cover, remove the single 10mm/Philips bolt, then pop out in the upward direction. The large rear trim panel hiding the subwoofer pops out with minor force, at this point only being held in by a bunch of white plastic trim fasteners. The amount it can come outward is limited by the cable on the seat release - that removes toward the back with four plastic clips (that are integral to the handle assembly). It sounds worse than it is...

I'm dead serious, my LC is in my shop and I started looking at how to remove the rear panel to access the sub an hour ago. This post is a life saver lol!

My main fear was yanking panels and breaking something. I'm installing a sub and tapping into the sub wiring with the Wavetech LinkQ, I'll let everyone know how it goes.

 

[CharlieS]

I just had mine off last week to run wires to my new LED backup lights, so it is pretty fresh for me.

Edit, I just remembered there is one more small wire connector in the very bottom of that panel near the tailgate, mine came out on it's own. There may be one more wire harness to the temp sensor in the cubby, but if there is, there's plenty of slack to remove it after popping the panel.

 

[TomCruis]

Removing the rear panel is actually not that bad. Just did it this morning and installing the same CDT sub murckman mentioned. Will do sound deadening also. The factory sub enclosure actually looks decent and well made. While its a lot of steps, it sounds more intimidating than it is in practice... hardest part for me was freeing some seatbelt bolts... all in all a good social distancing project. Feel free to pm me for any questions also

 

[NCMTNS]

@Murckman - thanks for sharing. So how is the sound and low frequency output compared to stock sub? I am considering this mod.

 

[Murckman]

@Murckman - thanks for sharing. So how is the sound and low frequency output compared to stock sub? I am considering this mod.

Definitely louder and able to produce lower frequencies better than the stock sub.

 

[TomCruis]

For all those venturing down the LC subwoofer replacement path, sharing an interesting discovery that may help you out...
When I took out the stock sub (2ohm DVC), I noticed the polarity was labeled on the connectors which is generally pretty helpful info... unless of course its wrong.

For some reason, I decided to test the speaker anyway and found that the terminals are mislabeled (see pictures).

I think the correct wiring should be the following, VC1: Green = Positive, Black = Negative and for VC2: Red = Positive, Yellow = Negative
In my tests, which involve wiring a battery's +/- to each VC and seeing what direction the cone moves, show the opposite of how the terminals are labeled.

When you wire a sub incorrectly, while it should not harm the speaker, I think this puts the speaker "out of phase" which could impact output. I've been chatting with @Murckman throughout this install and he concurs. After he fixed the polarity on his install, he mentioned better output at lower volume levels.

 

[TomCruis]

I'm dead serious, my LC is in my shop and I started looking at how to remove the rear panel to access the sub an hour ago. This post is a life saver lol!

My main fear was yanking panels and breaking something. I'm installing a sub and tapping into the sub wiring with the Wavetech LinkQ, I'll let everyone know how it goes.

What sub/amp did you end up purchasing? were you able to install yet?

 

[grinchy]

Well I’ve replaced the LX570 subwoofer 2009 year. It is indeed a single voice coil 10”. It is pretty deep, but has a traditional conical shape.

I had some significant headwinds getting the new sub to fit. The diameter of the frame was about 3/8” wider, and the chamber while pretty deep for most of it, is only about 1 1/2” deep close to the top shoulder. My chosen sub, a JBL Club 1000, has a new style stamped frame that is almost vertical walled, and it didn’t clear the shallow part of the box.
Additionally the stock sub is drilled out for six holes to mount and mine had eight. So lots of differences.
I also broke off the new sub fancy impedance switch during test fit.
So, I wired the sub in parallel, it is around 3 ohm, two five ohm coils.
I cut the box mounting ring to the screw holes, but was still too narrow and sub still hitting the shallow part of the box. I cannibalized the panel spacer to use as a mounting spacer to get 1/2” more depth. Drilled four new holes in the frame to accommodate six hole mount, weatherstripped everything and dropped it in.

Haven’t pulled the seat to reset the gain, but it definitely goes deeper. Toying with buying a sub amp and dropping that in to the Jack well where the first aid kit is. Priced out around $150, going to play with the DSP and see what I can get out of the current amp first.

 

[grinchy]

Small update. I've got about 200w on a bridged 4ohm digital amp headed to the sub. It comes on strong in the 30hz range and runs thru cutoff (set at 150hz). With heavy boost in the EQ I can get flat from mid-20s on. Pretty normal situation and an easy to drive sub. Note this is using the stock wire, which is maybe 16ga, it's pretty thin and definitely could provide headroom limiting for a demanding user.

Mirror shaking bass for sure available. I'm not a bass head, and the DSP has six memories, so my everyday listening mode is a less eq'd more natural curve with a lot less boost. It sounds great and decently musical. It was $60 afterall, I don't expect too much, a HUGE improvement over stock.

 

[TomCruis]

Small update. I've got about 200w on a bridged 4ohm digital amp headed to the sub. It comes on strong in the 30hz range and runs thru cutoff (set at 150hz). With heavy boost in the EQ I can get flat from mid-20s on. Pretty normal situation and an easy to drive sub. Note this is using the stock wire, which is maybe 16ga, it's pretty thin and definitely could provide headroom limiting for a demanding user.

Mirror shaking bass for sure available. I'm not a bass head, and the DSP has six memories, so my everyday listening mode is a less eq'd more natural curve with a lot less boost. It sounds great and decently musical. It was $60 afterall, I don't expect too much, a HUGE improvement over stock.

Thanks for the post. No issues with the factory enclosure flexing too much?
Did you tap into factory subwires and go high level input into your amp or did you add a LOC? do you have a RTA?

 

[grinchy]

Thanks for the post. No issues with the factory enclosure flexing too much?
Did you tap into factory subwires and go high level input into your amp or did you add a LOC? do you have a RTA?

Flex - I don't know. It's covered by rear panel / cosmetic cover. My mounting is, uh, suboptimal. I'm reusing the 1/16th inch think cosmetic plastic protector ring from the factory sub as a spacer, and sealing with a couple layers of 3/8" foam. I am under no illusion this is an SPL perfect type setup, it'll have a some flex and might have some leaks too. I did find a 1/2" piece of plywood under my deck last weekend, so I'll roll a spacer ring at some point. All these compromises in place it sounds good, so can only improve. The ring/spacer I'm using is meant to keep the rear panel off the factory sub cone.

Signal boosters/LOCs: I am using the factory 2 channel low level signal available under the driver seat on connector F18. It is also available behind the head unit. No signal boosters or LOCs. My situation is pretty unique, as I have fully replaced the Mark Levinson amplifier. It failed, I didn't see spending $500 on a rebuild or $1400 for a new one, so I'm on the third iteration of replacement solution, and second DSP solution (still less than $1400 all in for all iterations, though it is getting close, or course I have way more power . . . to do it this way without having to iterate is around $700, anyhow . . .). So I use the Factory HU/DVD/CD player (and 1/8" input) as sources. The 2 channel low level carries all the signals the HU sees (DVDA, DVDV, CD, FM, Aux, etc). Current DSP also has a separate BT input, but like a lot of BT implementations it has its own set of issues. The DSP creates the 12 channels of output (same as Mark Levinson amp did) with appropriate time delay and frequency ranges, then either DSP or external amp drive the speakers. The DSP is amplifying five channels (hatch, rear tweeters, center), and I have 7 channels in two 4 channel small form factor digital amps (rear woofers, front woofers, front tweeters, and sub bridged). The DSP is rated 25W, the SFF amps are 90W into 4ohm and 125W into 2 ohm, though I doubt very much they make these rms figures. They are better than the DSP amp for sure. I'll eventually move the sub to a dedicated sub amp (I have a SFF four channel from a previous iteration that I can put in the rear and run bridged, one side to each voice coil on the sub). At that time I'll remount the sub to a better spacer, rewire the VCs for the new amp, and fix the speaker wire gauge issue.

For signal analysis I've been using the DSP software in conjunction with an old school SPL meter and an iOS based sound generator. It's not perfect for sure, but I can do basic things like pink noise leveling by speaker to set master and amp gains, pair leveling, total system measurements etc. I'd like to do some frequency specific matching to better set crossovers and get some of the coloration out of the woofers and tweeters, perhaps I'll play with this on a future weekend. The factory system has built in midrange/tweeter crossovers that I can't control, but I do think I can address some of the coloration. Right now the limiting speakers are the rear tweeters, then center channel as far as power goes. When I move the sub to the third amp I can fix one of those two. Probably will choose the tweeters. The center is pretty close to the listening position and an easy load.

 

[TomCruis]

Flex - I don't know. It's covered by rear panel / cosmetic cover. My mounting is, uh, suboptimal. I'm reusing the 1/16th inch think cosmetic plastic protector ring from the factory sub as a spacer, and sealing with a couple layers of 3/8" foam. I am under no illusion this is an SPL perfect type setup, it'll have a some flex and might have some leaks too. I did find a 1/2" piece of plywood under my deck last weekend, so I'll roll a spacer ring at some point. All these compromises in place it sounds good, so can only improve. The ring/spacer I'm using is meant to keep the rear panel off the factory sub cone.

Signal boosters/LOCs: I am using the factory 2 channel low level signal available under the driver seat on connector F18. It is also available behind the head unit. No signal boosters or LOCs. My situation is pretty unique, as I have fully replaced the Mark Levinson amplifier. It failed, I didn't see spending $500 on a rebuild or $1400 for a new one, so I'm on the third iteration of replacement solution, and second DSP solution (still less than $1400 all in for all iterations, though it is getting close, or course I have way more power . . . to do it this way without having to iterate is around $700, anyhow . . .). So I use the Factory HU/DVD/CD player (and 1/8" input) as sources. The 2 channel low level carries all the signals the HU sees (DVDA, DVDV, CD, FM, Aux, etc). Current DSP also has a separate BT input, but like a lot of BT implementations it has its own set of issues. The DSP creates the 12 channels of output (same as Mark Levinson amp did) with appropriate time delay and frequency ranges, then either DSP or external amp drive the speakers. The DSP is amplifying five channels (hatch, rear tweeters, center), and I have 7 channels in two 4 channel small form factor digital amps (rear woofers, front woofers, front tweeters, and sub bridged). The DSP is rated 25W, the SFF amps are 90W into 4ohm and 125W into 2 ohm, though I doubt very much they make these rms figures. They are better than the DSP amp for sure. I'll eventually move the sub to a dedicated sub amp (I have a SFF four channel from a previous iteration that I can put in the rear and run bridged, one side to each voice coil on the sub). At that time I'll remount the sub to a better spacer, rewire the VCs for the new amp, and fix the speaker wire gauge issue.

For signal analysis I've been using the DSP software in conjunction with an old school SPL meter and an iOS based sound generator. It's not perfect for sure, but I can do basic things like pink noise leveling by speaker to set master and amp gains, pair leveling, total system measurements etc. I'd like to do some frequency specific matching to better set crossovers and get some of the coloration out of the woofers and tweeters, perhaps I'll play with this on a future weekend. The factory system has built in midrange/tweeter crossovers that I can't control, but I do think I can address some of the coloration. Right now the limiting speakers are the rear tweeters, then center channel as far as power goes. When I move the sub to the third amp I can fix one of those two. Probably will choose the tweeters. The center is pretty close to the listening position and an easy load.

You've got a pretty decent set-up there - with tuning capabilities at a great cost basis. Current system, iterations and future steps sound well thought out. I'm super jealous of the low level signals to tap into - saves a ton of headache. With the factory JBL Synthesis on the Landcruiser, I'm left scratching my head on the best way to keep the factory head unit and all the controls, chimes etc., grab the signal - clean it up, then send it to a DSP that has enough output channels to control 12 out of the 14 speaker system - ultimately want to do an active 3-way setup up front, amped coax in the rear doors, amped sub, then leave the factory amp to power the center and tailgate. Wish me luck.

Do you still have factory fader control with your set-up or does that go away?

 

[kcruiser200]

Thanks. Yes I have listened to it. It’s incredible. We Dynomatted the entire vehicle. Floors, sides, doors.

That is one hell of an install!!! nothing but respect to the team that does this and does it right!!!! And here I was ... thinking that an aux tank install job is pretty complex!!! loll!!!!!

 

[grinchy]

You've got a pretty decent set-up there - with tuning capabilities at a great cost basis. Current system, iterations and future steps sound well thought out. I'm super jealous of the low level signals to tap into - saves a ton of headache. With the factory JBL Synthesis on the Landcruiser, I'm left scratching my head on the best way to keep the factory head unit and all the controls, chimes etc., grab the signal - clean it up, then send it to a DSP that has enough output channels to control 12 out of the 14 speaker system - ultimately want to do an active 3-way setup up front, amped coax in the rear doors, amped sub, then leave the factory amp to power the center and tailgate. Wish me luck.

Do you still have factory fader control with your set-up or does that go away?

Thanks! It's been an interesting journey. I lost much time and some $ in trying to save $ on the original DSP solution.

No, I do not have fader control in the traditional sense. I could store a DSP profile that mutes some speakers or reduces levels to some speakers and achieve the same result. Right now I have five of six profiles in use - bass reduced, flat, 'max sq', 'max spl', and "max bass". Could repurpose one of these or store a new one.

I have lost steering wheel volume (still have steering wheel source and channel), and nav voice and probably bluetooth phone, though I haven't verified nav voice and bluetooth phone don't work in this iteration. There are pins on F18 for the phone and for the no longer functional Lexus Link thing, but there is some muting control I don't think I can replicate (probably could with an arduino, but really, this was not a use case for me and if I need to go down this path I'll get the Echo auto involved way before an arduino).

If you get into the wiring you will likely discover that less than 14 speakers have discrete amplification. I think Mark Levinson markets it as a 16 channel or something, but they are counting the mid/tweet separately, even though these are just crossovered like a coax would be. I "only" needed 12 channels amplification, which is still more than most DSPs can handle (thus the homebrew iteration 1 DSP). Did you look at the pinout in the FSM?