Excess steering play, one direction (1 Viewer)

[Do Over]

‘69 FJ40
I have searched the old questions but haven’t found an answer to this one. I rebuilt the steering including:
- purchased a rebuilt steering box
- new tie rod and linkage ends
- center arm kit
- drag link kit
- steering damper
- wheel alignment

On jack stands, there there is nothing that would indicate a wheel bearing issue. From wheels straight ahead to full left turn, there is 1 1/4” of play in the steering wheel through the full turn. Turning right, the wheel play goes from 1 1/4” to 8” at full turn. The pitman arm moves the same degree for right or left. I have check the install of all of the components and can’t figure this out. What am I missing?
Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[dazerb]

I'm getting ready to replace the ragout joint... very "winnowed" out and loose.
I've done everything else too.

 

[1969FJ]

Did the center arm include the pivot shaft ? Included is bushings as well.

 

[peesalot]

So you are saying that when turned full stop to the right the steering wheel has a ton of slop ? how far do you have to turn back left to get back to the less slop situation ? are your steering stops intact and adjusted ? Sounds like a possible tooth failure inside box ??

 

[3_puppies]

rag joint on a 69?? not in stock form

 

[1969FJ]

What was the steering like before you changed everything out ?

 

[Do Over]

I'm getting ready to replace the ragout joint... very "winnowed" out and loose.
I've done everything else too.

 

[Do Over]

There is no rag joint on my ‘69.

 

[3_puppies]

There is no rag joint on my ‘69.

my mistake, I saw another member post about replacing the rag joint and thought it was the OP

 

[diesellibrarian]

Do you know who rebuilt the steering box?

 

[Its me shaneus]

No easy answer here, but if mine I would put front end on jack stands with tires up off the ground, then grab tire and strongly shake one direction then the other, all while a good friend watched ever possible linkage connection for slop.

Easier to see slop with input from that side of the steering box gear reduction.

May need to undo steering damper if installed.

 

[Do Over]

There is no rag joint on my ‘69.

 

[Do Over]

Stop the presses. This goes down to operator error. I did not have the steering box shaft rotated to center when I installed the pitman arm. With the pitman arm disconnected it takes five full rotations of the steering wheel to move through the full range of the worm gear, end to end in my steering box. I did not have the worm gear follower at the mid-point when I installed the pitman arm. It doesn’t take missing by many splines on the shaft to have a problem Once I had the shaft in the right place and the wheels straight, I reinstalled the arm. Now everything is balanced.

 

[rainingagain]

I'm getting ready to replace the ragout joint... very "winnowed" out and loose.
I've done everything else too.

Too early for a rag joint.

 

[65swb45]

Technically, your pitman arm could still be off. Think of the center arm as an L. The leg of the arm that moves the relay rod should be parallel to the frame, with the tires pointed straight ahead, before the pitman arm is attached.

And if the tires are not pointing straight ahead with the center arm parallel to the frame, then that needs to be adjusted first.

To recap
1. Get tires aimed straight ahead
2. Adjust relay until the rear-facing leg of the center arm is parallel to the frame
3. Check steering box for range of motion and centering.
4. If the pitman arm does not line up and slide directly onto the splines of the box, that’s when you adjust the drag link.

And if your rebuilder put alignment ink marks on the side of the box and sector shaft like I do, those override simply centering the box.

The worm gear and sector have their own arc of contact, and the box should always be set to provide the appropriate clearance at the apex of the arc. I see too many rebuilt boxes that rely exclusively on centering the range of motion. When that happens, you can often feel more resistance in one direction than the other…because the apex was not fully accounted for.

I had a terrifying ride home from Fresno the weekend @DHONDAGOD and I put the Saginaw system in my 45 because of this. Whoever rebuilt my box for Napa was an idiot when they set the preload. I followed a similar procedure to what I just described in setting the preload for myself the next day, and the box has been fine for 19 years.

I’ve been rebuilding these boxes for 35 years, and I can say it’s not unusual for a pre-73 box to have the apex 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn more one way than the other from center. And I have the sad suspicion that they were off even from the factory, and just installed and sold on center because the customers had an expectation that the vehicle would turn the same amount in either direction.

To all who find this information useful, consider hitting the like button.
(It’s informative to see the list of who is viewing this thread at the bottom of the page and compare it to who does or doesn’t hit the button. )

 

[rainingagain]

Technically, your pitman arm could still be off. Think of the center arm as an L. The leg of the arm that moves the relay rod should be parallel to the frame, with the tires pointed straight ahead, before the pitman arm is attached.

And if the tires are not pointing straight ahead with the center arm parallel to the frame, then that needs to be adjusted first.

To recap
1. Get tires aimed straight ahead
2. Adjust relay until the rear-facing leg of the center arm is parallel to the frame
3. Check steering box for range of motion and centering.
4. If the pitman arm does not slide directly onto the splines of the box, that’s when you adjust the drag link.

And if your rebuilder put alignment ink marks on the side of the box and sector shaft, those override simply centering the box. The worm gear and sector have their own arc of contact, and the box should always be set to provide the appropriate clearance at the apex of the arc. I see too many rebuilt boxes that rely exclusively on centering the range of motion. When that happens, you can feel more resistance in one direction than the other…because the apex was not fully accounted for.

I had a terrifying ride home from Fresno the weekend @DHONDAGOD and I put the Saginaw system in my 45 because of this. Whoever rebuilt my box for Napa was an idiot when they set the preload. I followed a similar procedure in setting the preload for myself the next day, and the box has been fine for 19 years.

I’ve been rebuilding these boxes for 35 years, and I can say it’s not unusual for a pre-73 box to have the apex 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn more one way than the other from center. And I have the sad suspicion that they were off even from the factory, and just installed and sold on center because the customers had an expectation that the vehicle would turn the same amount in either direction.

To all who find this information useful, consider hitting the like button.

Top tech here.

 

[pb4ugo]

@65swb45 , perfect timing, I'm getting ready to assemble my sag scout box tomorrow.

 

[Chungas Revenge]

Mark,

That was a succinct and thorough (yet brief ) run down….well done .

@65swb45

Technically, your pitman arm could still be off. Think of the center arm as an L. The leg of the arm that moves the relay rod should be parallel to the frame, with the tires pointed straight ahead, before the pitman arm is attached.

And if the tires are not pointing straight ahead with the center arm parallel to the frame, then that needs to be adjusted first.

To recap
1. Get tires aimed straight ahead
2. Adjust relay until the rear-facing leg of the center arm is parallel to the frame
3. Check steering box for range of motion and centering.
4. If the pitman arm does not slide directly onto the splines of the box, that’s when you adjust the drag link.

And if your rebuilder put alignment ink marks on the side of the box and sector shaft, those override simply centering the box.

The worm gear and sector have their own arc of contact, and the box should always be set to provide the appropriate clearance at the apex of the arc. I see too many rebuilt boxes that rely exclusively on centering the range of motion. When that happens, you can feel more resistance in one direction than the other…because the apex was not fully accounted for.

I had a terrifying ride home from Fresno the weekend @DHONDAGOD and I put the Saginaw system in my 45 because of this. Whoever rebuilt my box for Napa was an idiot when they set the preload. I followed a similar procedure in setting the preload for myself the next day, and the box has been fine for 19 years.

I’ve been rebuilding these boxes for 35 years, and I can say it’s not unusual for a pre-73 box to have the apex 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn more one way than the other from center. And I have the sad suspicion that they were off even from the factory, and just installed and sold on center because the customers had an expectation that the vehicle would turn the same amount in either direction.

To all who find this information useful, consider hitting the like button.

 

[charliemeyer007]

Rebuilt/remanufactured is dependent on the quality of the work and the materials/parts used in that operation.

My 72 has been to the shop exactly once a few days after I bought it. The guy I bought it from paid for a brake job at his buddies shop. Watching a newbie pound on the front brake cylinder with a BFH and punch to the point of exhaustion was both entertaining and simulating at the same time. I never went back. The tire shop left off all cotter pins when I went in for an alignment when buying new tires.

Learn to work on stuff yourself - almost no one cares about your rig more than you.

As of this afternoon I have banned UPS from delivery. I ask their lady to remove my address from the system - she said she didn't know if she could do that. So I told her that when I impound their truck for trespassing, it will cost them $100,000 to get it back.
I have to make a new sign now. No UPS or OnTrac Delivery - Trespassing subject to $100,000 impound fee to get your truck back.
Now to convince Amoron to not ship by UPS to me. The good news is A has already refunded this last failed OOPs delivery