Everyone talking about rebuilds and swaps….am I throwing money into a pit building up a 240k mile rig?

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OGBeno

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Agree with most of that but pretty sure it's 600km's not 600k miles. Still ridiculous, but yeah...

Edit: and I was referring to the designed engine life, not saying a 1FZ COULDN'T go 600k...but that would be a specimen indeed.

Per Toyota 1FZ-FE engines are 300K KM engines before requiring overhaul.
 
Wrencher93

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Per Toyota 1FZ-FE engines are 300K KM engines before requiring overhaul.
Ah, so 900k Km in total assuming 3 rebuilds. Thanks for chiming in, Oner. Man, you'd think that number would have stuck in the back of my brain a little better. Guess I should spend more time on MUD and working on my 80 :grinpimp:
 
Ozark80

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Ah, so 900k Km in total assuming 3 rebuilds. Thanks for chiming in, Oner. Man, you'd think that number would have stuck in the back of my brain a little better. Guess I should spend more time on MUD and working on my 80 :grinpimp:
Yeah I've read about the 186k mi x 3 interval in other threads. From my understanding this interval was set assuming it'd be used in a more industrial application, or maybe in harsher global conditions with poor quality fluids. I've never found the original source for this though, so I could be wrong.

In the US, where many Cruisers racked up high miles in Suburban households with lots of freeway cruising, bottom end work isn't usually needed until well over the 300k km mark; in fact more like 300k miles, at least anecdotally. Especially with good fluid changes. Of course crawling around the farm or in stop start traffic will be harder on the motor.

IIRC a 12 valve cummins is thought of as a "10,000 hour" motor. I wonder if there is a similar spec for the 1fz?
 
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Wrencher93

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@DirtyPepper I stand corrected. 900k km is approximately 560k miles...so you were *hand waving here* correct with the 600k number.
 
Wrencher93

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Yeah I've read about the 186k mi x 3 interval in other threads. From my understanding this interval was set assuming it'd be used in a more industrial application, or maybe in harsher global conditions. I've never found the original source for this though, so I could be wrong.

In the US, where many Cruisers racked up high miles in Suburban households with lots of freeway cruising, bottom end work isn't usually needed until well over the 300k km mark; in fact more like 300k miles, at least anecdotally. Especially if high-quality oil is frequently swapped in. Of course crawling around the farm or in stop start traffic will be harder on the motor.

IIRC a 12 valve cummins is thought of as a "10,000 hour" motor. I wonder if there is a similar spec for the 1fz?
Well yeah, hours make more sense than miles for industrial type engines since heavy equipment generally does not take a stroll down the interstate. Cummins obviously being big in more than just automotive circles. To your point though, that would be interesting if Toyota had a hour-based spec for any of the 80 series factory engines.
 
DirtyPepper

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@DirtyPepper I stand corrected. 900k km is approximately 560k miles...so you were *hand waving here* correct with the 600k number.
Yeah, I'm in the US...we weren't taught the metric system, sadly ;) hahahaha!

Although...it's honestly something I need to go back and relearn... we had a metric section in math classes in grade school for a brief, I don't know, two weeks maybe? ;)

Anytime I NEED to convert I simply go to the good ol' Google.
 
OGBeno

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Yeah I've read about the 186k mi x 3 interval in other threads. From my understanding this interval was set assuming it'd be used in a more industrial application, or maybe in harsher global conditions with poor quality fluids. I've never found the original source for this though, so I could be wrong.

In the US, where many Cruisers racked up high miles in Suburban households with lots of freeway cruising, bottom end work isn't usually needed until well over the 300k km mark; in fact more like 300k miles, at least anecdotally. Especially with good fluid changes. Of course crawling around the farm or in stop start traffic will be harder on the motor.

IIRC a 12 valve cummins is thought of as a "10,000 hour" motor. I wonder if there is a similar spec for the 1fz?

It’s in the SAE article by the 3 designers about the 1FZ-FE that I posted multiple times over the years.
 
DirtyPepper

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Yea used prices are insane right now even carmax is paying good money they gave my wife within $2k of what we were going to ask privately for her Dodge work truck. What model Ferrari do you have we have always been fond of the older MT variants
I bought a 2011 Toyota Avalon Limited with 100,727 miles on it for $11K...I put down $8k and financed the rest. It's my first ADULT car payment at 45 years old. I've always just bought cars for cash because my credit was horrible growing up. It's fixed now but I didn't want to splurge on something -brand- new.

One of the online car sellers has offered me $15K to buy it...they'll sell it for 18K, easily. I've already seen the same year with similar miles go for $18-$20k in this current market.
 
Wrencher93

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I bought a 2011 Toyota Avalon Limited with 100,727 miles on it for $11K...I put down $8k and financed the rest. It's my first ADULT car payment at 45 years old. I've always just bought cars for cash because my credit was horrible growing up. It's fixed now but I didn't want to splurge on something -brand- new.

One of the online car sellers has offered me $15K to buy it...they'll sell it for 18K, easily. I've already seen the same year with similar miles go for $18-$20k in this current market.
Total insanity. Kinda cool that our cruisers are appreciating in value but then when you think about wanting to keep it you realize that appreciation is bad because everything associated with that vehicle just became even more expensive.
 
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manofthewoods

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Per Toyota 1FZ-FE engines are 300K KM engines before requiring overhaul.
That might be a bit conservative.
Just finished complete rebuild on my '97 LX450 w/372k miles. Main & rod bearings looked great. All cylinders met original specifications, only honed them. Helps that PO took good care...
 
OGBeno

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That might be a bit conservative.
Just finished complete rebuild on my '97 LX450 w/372k miles. Main & rod bearings looked great. All cylinders met original specifications, only honed them. Helps that PO took good care...

This is Toyota we are talking about. EVERYTHING is conservative.
 
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It’s kind of silly to plan an engine rebuild around some engineering generalization. Every motor is treated, ran, maintained and taken care of by different people in different climates and driving conditions.

To simply say these are ‘designed to be x y or z’ mile engines is silly.

Beyond audible cues, overall engine health can be pretty quickly assessed with a full leakdown/compression test.

Oil leaks from external seals can mean a lot of things, but they don’t mean you need a full rebuild.

Consider this as well; most engine rebuilders are using cheap trash aftermarket parts from China which are NOT in any way comparable to genuine OEM Toyota parts. I have bought old trucks with ‘shop rebuilt’ motors that previous owners paid thousands of dollars ro have done… oil leaking left and right after 30k miles.

Bottom line; If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it and other than batteries, filters, fluids and tires… always use dealer parts.
 
Wrencher93

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It’s kind of silly to plan an engine rebuild around some engineering generalization. Every motor is treated, ran, maintained and taken care of by different people in different climates and driving conditions.

To simply say these are ‘designed to be x y or z’ mile engines is silly.

Beyond audible cues, overall engine health can be pretty quickly assessed with a full leakdown/compression test.

Oil leaks from external seals can mean a lot of things, but they don’t mean you need a full rebuild.

Consider this as well; most engine rebuilders are using cheap trash aftermarket parts from China which are NOT in any way comparable to genuine OEM Toyota parts. I have bought old trucks with ‘shop rebuilt’ motors that previous owners paid thousands of dollars ro have done… oil leaking left and right after 30k miles.

Bottom line; If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it and other than batteries, filters, fluids and tires… always use dealer parts.
I agree with you, but that wasn't the point of mentioning the designed engine life. We weren't saying "the engine will last this many miles because Toyota said so", that foolishness. We were pointing out that the 1FZ had design intent that included a long, rebuildable life - much longer than your "average" passenger car engine. But to your point, yes, every vehicle is unique and has to be maintenanced accordingly.
 
Ozark80

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I agree with you, but that wasn't the point of mentioning the designed engine life. We weren't saying "the engine will last this many miles because Toyota said so", that foolishness. We were pointing out that the 1FZ had design intent that included a long, rebuildable life - much longer than your "average" passenger car engine. But to your point, yes, every vehicle is unique and has to be maintenanced accordingly.
Also, I read the abstract of the article by Mr. Ito et al., which states the engine was designed for "severe operating conditions.. off-road."

Most people in the US didn't use their Cruisers as farm trucks or trail rigs from new, so for the most part it seems like only top end work is needed in the first 2-300k miles for the 1fz in normal day to day conditions around here, at least anecdotally.

Others who have torn apart a lot of these engines will have a better idea of general bottom end longevity than me though.
 
aclos3

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I wouldn't be worried at all! I bought mine in 2008 during the big fuel shock for $6999 with 161,000 miles. I am now up to 250,000 miles and while I have spent a decent amount of money on all of the routine stuff that these vehicles need, I am way ahead of where I would be if I'd purchased something new or something less reliable. I work from home and our family vehicle is a minivan, so I can really control how many miles I put the Landcruiser.
 
Feldrian

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It’s kind of silly to plan an engine rebuild around some engineering generalization. Every motor is treated, ran, maintained and taken care of by different people in different climates and driving conditions.

To simply say these are ‘designed to be x y or z’ mile engines is silly.

Beyond audible cues, overall engine health can be pretty quickly assessed with a full leakdown/compression test.

Oil leaks from external seals can mean a lot of things, but they don’t mean you need a full rebuild.

Consider this as well; most engine rebuilders are using cheap trash aftermarket parts from China which are NOT in any way comparable to genuine OEM Toyota parts. I have bought old trucks with ‘shop rebuilt’ motors that previous owners paid thousands of dollars ro have done… oil leaking left and right after 30k miles.

Bottom line; If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it and other than batteries, filters, fluids and tires… always use dealer parts.
Missing the point of the started maintenance/ rebuild interval there. Fleet managers use these numbers to calculate the total cost of ownership for fleet vehicles, which typically factors when selecting vehicles. Like anything mechanical there's an engineered lifespan and an estimated mean time between failure.

Not going to disagree with the sentiment here though, Toyota tends to be conservative when they estimate their intervals. I've seen plenty of light duty Toyotas outlast Ford Super Dutys in mining environments.
 
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clx16

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So late to the party, but the math plus features and reliability compared to the normal comparisons the 80 looks really well. If you compare against a car with payments it is even better looking. Many mention fuel costs but that is pay now versus pay later for a long time argument that may take longer than the replacement lasts.

Basically the only valid arguments I've heard about new versus old come to safety features but the 80 is pretty safe for when it was made anyway.

I think the better question is...what will your third vehicle...i small or midsize pickup also known for being reliable. Get a lot of good use and fills the gap between the two vehicles you currently have.

Drive what you like and what works for your needs. Be an "and" person if you can afford it not an "or" person.
 
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Francis K

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So late to the party, but the math plus features and reliability compared to the normal comparisons the 80 looks really well. If you compare against a car with payments it is even better looking. Many mention fuel costs but that is pay now versus pay later for a long time argument that may take longer than the replacement lasts.

Basically the only valid arguments I've heard about new versus old come to safety features but the 80 is pretty safe for when it was made anyway.

I think the better question is...what will your third vehicle...i small or midsize pickup also known for being reliable. Get a lot of good use and fills the gap between the two vehicles you currently have.

Drive what you like and what works for your needs. Be an "and" person if you can afford it not an "or" person.


That’s pretty much what it came down to for me, I WANT an 80 I always have and I’ve always owned one. The few years where I didn’t own one I missed owning one. Screw it…if it needs to be rebuilt down the road then so be it. I’m building up a sexy monster of a grocery getter 🤣

She’s getting some dark grey satin paint this week, then back to the mechanic for a few small things then back to the welder to put the kut snake flares back on, the NWTI rear (whenever it shows up) and sliders. Then I’m working on the interior, seats and freshening it up some small things….
 
F

Francis K

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Think about it, while I love my 2020 GX you can’t actually have fun with it you can’t mod a brand new truck and dump on it…well you can but it wouldn’t be very smart I’m not wealthy by any means. I like 4runners but I like 80’s better, a 100 series is a decent alternative but again I like 80’s better.

What used late model SUV would you consider besides perhaps those two? You’re not going to drive a Range Rover waiting for it to be mechanically totaled which you could also say for lots of alternatives like a Nissan, Mercedes or bmw. Modern Jeep’s I’ve come to the conclusion are girls cars and quite frankly they are not viable every day vehicles, they are toys, I remember vividly in my 2013 new one off the lot I had to pull over to make phone calls it was so loud and that was with a hard top and you’re not going to regularly drive an old one. I do think a grand Cherokee is a nice vehicle but it has no presence whatsoever and other American SUV’s? I’m the biggest patriot you’ve ever met but any American SUV I’ve ever owned was half a junker at 60k miles and none of them age well aesthetically unless it’s a true classic like a bronco or something but you’re not going to daily drive that. Sure a new foreign SUV again like a GX but you have to baby it, it’s a new car plus expensive obviously.


What is the alternative to an 80 if you want a respected, reliable, tough late model so you don’t have to baby it SUV that also looks great? Again maybe a 4Runner or a 100 series but I prefer the 80.

So yea 80 it is! Thanks for the pep talk fellas!
 
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LINUS

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That’s pretty much what it came down to for me, I WANT an 80 I always have and I’ve always owned one. The few years where I didn’t own one I missed owning one. Screw it…if it needs to be rebuilt down the road then so be it. I’m building up a sexy monster of a grocery getter 🤣

She’s getting some dark grey satin paint this week, then back to the mechanic for a few small things then back to the welder to put the kut snake flares back on, the NWTI rear (whenever it shows up) and sliders. Then I’m working on the interior, seats and freshening it up some small things….

Added bonus - if your paint shop does the doorjambs & hatchjambs, green is almost black so masking the whole engine bay but blowing paint everywhere else will look great.

A good decade back a guy bought a red VW Corrado & blew it dark green - the red engine bay w/ the green got it dubbed the ‘Santa-mobile’.

Owner was thin-skinned & didn’t take the nickname lightly.
He soon quit the VW Vortex board (VW’s version of Mud).
 

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