EV 4wd - not here yet but coming soon I suspect .... Will they be a success outside of the 'soccer mum' sorority?

[sunrk]

EV 4wd's and ute's are just beginning to start emerging but will they be a success outside of the snooty soccer mum set?

Clearly for towing they will be a joke with any current type of battery tech but what are your views about EV's as 4wd's and commercial utes, etc.?

 

[sunrk]

There's a Haval/GWM e-t60 ute that's apparently now available here. The Ford f150 lightning is not available here, and neither of the Rivian models are yet availble in RHD config for Australia.

A few EV SUV's now but it still all bleeding edge in terms of long-term evolution of motor vehicle engineering and design.

And no Tesla cybertruck.

 

[PIP]

To me, there's a real solid line between what an EV is great at and what it does not do well. I've got almost 40k miles on a Tesla Model Y I bought new in 2021.

I was very skeptical the car would be practical, but I have zero regrets. We did not buy the Tesla for long trips, but as soon as we figured out it isn't a big deal we've done several 1000+ mile trips without issue.

If I could buy a single cab work pickup with the same exact powertrain/features as my model Y, but with a bed that could handle 500 lbs for under $50k I would do it today.

I feel like that would be an awesome, practical vehicle for work truck type uses.

However, I would not buy an EV SUV or pickup that will tow 10K lbs for 5 minutes or has a battery so large it has to charge for 2 days before you can drive it.

It's stupid. EV's aren't good for that use. They are beyond excellent for daily drives and light loads under 200 miles total where you can charge at home for pennies. They're great in traffic as well.

I will use my diesel Superduty to tow or drive long distances. I will use my 80 series to go trek into remote places.

 

[sunrk]

Agree that for 'low spec' use they'll probably be good. Electricity for charging is a very big deal as probably like here the US is pivoting away from coal for electricity generation.

We have no nuclear power stations so once coal for electricity goes because it's no longer 'woke' it's going be a mix of hydro, wind, solar farm, and gas.

By and large people who have 'subscribed' to the rooftop solar thing are the people who are 100x more likely to be considering electric cars as they get to 'offset' power their EV's need to recharge every night. Anyone else can't and has to pay 'full freight' to charge at night when there's no solar farm output and wind is not reliable enough. Existing properties require mods to their residential power system in a fair portion of situations to support a dedicated high-capacity home EV charger.

The usage of vehicles will change a lot around 'refuelling', etc. too. It won't be a quick 10 minute stop to 'fill up' and go again for another 500+ km until battery tech and raw electricity supply to really high capacity (as yet pipedream) charging facilities becomes reality.

 

[plink01]

Why is coal generation 'woke'?? Did it used to be 'woke'?? Pretty sure it has nothing to do with being 'woke'. Our coal stations are ancient and are due to be decommissioned. They don't last forever. When your Landcruiser dies you dont go out and buy a Ford Model T. Technology has changed and coal plants are obsolete.

The sooner they go the better. I live near the LaTrobe Valley and watch those things pump s*** into the air all day every day.

And what does 'subscribed' to roof top solar mean?? I have rooftop solar, I don't pay for electricity during the day. Pretty sure that's a good thing. I've had it for a few years and it's already paid for itself. So I'm making money off it. Thats better than paying some a****** power company.

I'm a Linesman and we have been installing more and more infrastructure for charging stations. Things are changing. It doesn't happen overnight. Our oil and gas infrastructure took a hundred years to get to this point. The grid is changing, it needs a lot of work but it will get there.

Electric vehicles are coming whether you like it or not. Electric 4x4's will be a thing. Like anything they will have advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantages will slowly be overcome and in time an electric vehicle will feel the same as carrying a mobile phone does now. 20 years ago a mobile phone with the entire internet a available at 5g speeds would have been unthinkable. Now people can't live without.
Anyone who thinks it will never take off is the modern equivalent of the horse and cart operators who thought cars are a fad.

Times are changing no matter how much you wish they weren't.

 

[PIP]

One thing about EV's I think there is a lot of misconception about is charging. It costs me about $50/month to charge at home. It's a couple dollars or less of electricity. If I take it on a long trip and need to use a fast charger it takes 10-20 minutes to charge and costs $5-$10.

Charging at home it plugs into a 30 amp 240v outlet. It takes the same power to run as a water heater. Takes 3 hours to charge from very low to full.

Charging is not the big deal people think it is.

 

[plink01]

Yeah I don't really get all the fear. If you are doing a massive road trip just plan your lunch dinner etc around being at a charging station. If I have just driven 400km I would probably be doing a 15 - 30 minute break anyway. If I have to wait an extra 15 minutes for my car to charge and it saves me $200 on diesel I reckon that's a pretty good deal!

And how many road trips are you doing each year in comparison to small trips?? I reckon I could use an electric car probably 98% of the time and have no worries about battery life. In 5 years these battery chargers will be everywhere and they are only going to get quicker.

I don't own an electric car but would buy one for a run around when the prices start coming down to the 40k mark.

 

[White Stripe]

For a 4x4 offroad the big negative for a EV is weight and weight distribution. Offroad you want weight bias to the front. EV has weight bias in the center. Also you don't want a lot of overall weight. EV has a lot of overall weight. For very mild trails like rough dirt roads it's not a big deal. As far as charging, solar panels on the vehicle roof wouldn't give a substantial charge. You might get 20 miles of charge in 12 hours of sun.

 

[Romer]

It looks like Rivian is doing well. I know someone who had a friend wheel White Rim for 3 days with him and had no issues. Scott Bradys Review shows great promise



Not sure what the range would be towing a 5000lb trailer over two mountain passes from Denver to Moab.

I see a lot of potential wheeling an EV. No need for lockers or the power brake skill. No worrying about overheating or leaking all over the trail.

Lots to work out like range and charging for long trips, how to repair one off road impacts of Armor or does it need it

You are right they are not there yet, but the Rivian makes significant progress

I am wanting to see what the Toyota/Lexus SUV Plug In Hybrid (Not current Hybrid) will do. They would be able to do most city driving in EV mode and switch to Gas when going on longer trips. The complication, reliability and extra weight of two systems is what I want to see how it is balanced

 

[peesalot]

OK

 

[Romer]

Please keep Politics out of tech threads

 

[jonheld]

I'm going to start by saying that I was seriously against getting an EV when it was time to replace my last car. I had been driving various 3 Series BMWs for the last 9 years or so. Our lease was up on our 2018 340iX and the local BMW dealer made us a sweet deal on a 2021 M340ix, which I fell in love with.
My wife really pushed the issue and wanted to drive some EVs. At the time, there were few options on the market, so we drove a Tesla 3. That was such a piece of crap, it was almost laughable. We drove a Polestar2 which is what we wound up leasing. The speed, handling, and comfort of the P2 was almost too close to my last BMW. Yes, there were some software issues being the first run, but silly things like radio presets disappearing once in a while.

After 2 years of ownership I've come to realize that all the negative static that I heard was just that. Static. It is a great vehicle that costs me $0.06/mile to keep running. Works fine in the summer and winter, turns left and right, just like any other car.

All that said, having the ability to regulate each wheel independently is a huge asset. We've already seen what an 80 Series with a EV swap is capable of. It would be interesting to stuff a Rivian drivetrain onto a platform like the 80.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

I figure EVs will be kings of the rocks in the near future. So many advantages once the users catch up to tuning the tech. The coding and controller mods are the next wave, and kids are already native to it. This hobby will look very different soon, but I'm kinda excited for it.

 

[jayp2]

I figure EVs will be kings of the rocks in the near future. So many advantages once the users catch up to tuning the tech. The coding and controller mods are the next wave, and kids are already native to it. This hobby will look very different soon, but I'm kinda excited for it.

The issues are many....not to mention the issues associated with mining/extraction of materials required for EV and the environmental mess on the front and back end of this equasion.....the US and others are "exporting" the ecological impacts of this to third world countries instead of dealing with it here at home because to do so would render the batteries/etc prohibitively expensive

There's the issue of owner access to the computer/coding, there have been several court cases and some legislation on this but in the end you have no right legally to have access to the code/software running your own vehicle.....the flip side to this is the security or lack thereof associated with these computer systems which are necessarily sitting more or less unprotected on the web or are accessible via wireless....welcome to the age of the hackable car......dodge/fiat jeeps were demonstrated a few years back to be hackable and control systems like brakes could be controlled remotely

This doesnt event begin to touch the issues associated with the rolling lithium bombs that catch fire randomly and/or in accidents on a fairly regular basis.......fire department cant put these things out and all they can do is control/mitigate the spread of the fire until it burns itself out and leaves a crater in the pavement.......what do you think is gonna happen legislatively when the first uncontrolled burn in western states is caused by an EV that burned for 10 hours in an uncontrolled manner when it was flipped or spontaneously combusted.

Generally speaking, people readily adopt good ideas....the only reason EV's are selling/have sold in the US for the last 5+ years is because of taxpayer subsidies....remove the market/monetary manipulation and sales crash

Dont get me wrong, I think there are some (few) desirable characteristics of EV's for some uses......but as a tool user I choose the best tool for the job that I can afford and for me it aint an immature over prices technology that may not be supportable 10+ years down the road.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

Not getting into the materials et al. That's a can of worms for the chit-chat threads.

Drivelines have come a very long way in the last 30 years. Big power, much stronger components, more reliability, more complexity, more tunability. Nothing about most competition trucks is factory, and hobby trucks are deep in the aftermarket parts bin. Many of them are running aftermarket controllers and software. None of them are connected to the cloud to enable hacking and what not. EVs will be similar. It'll be very cool to see what people cobble together and what trails they'll be able to run.

Safety is a thing. Gasoline has issues. So does propane. EV has its own issues. But every fuel powered vehicle has a risk. The user assumes that risk upon themselves.

 

[sunrk]

For Australia towing is the big can of worms for EV's in the ute and 4wd/suv market segments.

Hook up any significant towed load and range drops to 50 pct or less of the manufacturers claimed spec, recharging times become longer and more frequent, and the whole 'travel regime' changes. It's not really any different to when motor vehicles replaced horse and cart but now in reverse.

 

[henrymski]

For a 4x4 offroad the big negative for a EV is weight and weight distribution. Offroad you want weight bias to the front. EV has weight bias in the center. Also you don't want a lot of overall weight. EV has a lot of overall weight. For very mild trails like rough dirt roads it's not a big deal. As far as charging, solar panels on the vehicle roof wouldn't give a substantial charge. You might get 20 miles of charge in 12 hours of sun.

Pretty certain that my 80 weighs, well, a lot and it does fine on trails tougher than fire roads. just sayin'

 

[henrymski]

The problem for me, and frankly, a huge number of people, is that I live in city. I don't have a drive or a dedicated parking spot. It's "park where you find a spot," so it's impossible for me to charge overnight. Philly had a program years back where they would install the infrastructure and give you a dedicated parking spot in front of you house if you bought an EV. That went away once everyone who wasn't buying an EV started seeing potential parking places disappear.

 

[White Stripe]

Pretty certain that my 80 weighs, well, a lot and it does fine on trails tougher than fire roads. just sayin'

80 weighs about 4800 pounds or so. Far less than a 4x4 truck electric vehicle.

 

[PIP]

80 weighs about 4800 pounds or so. Far less than a 4x4 truck electric vehicle.

My stock 94 80 weighs 5100 with me in it. My Tesla Y weighs 4800 with me in it.