Builds 'Ele'Ele Build (1 Viewer)

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Good! Like where this is headed. The market definitely needs options- and it looks like you have a good one in the works.

So had a meeting with my tank builder in Texas.... TO SUM IT UP.... ANY GASOLINE TRANSFER OR AUX TANK THAT TIES INTO THE FACTORY FUEL SYSTEM IS ILLEGAL... ALSO ANY TANK THAT IS EQUIPPED WITH A BOTTOM BUNG (TIED INTO A FACTORY FUEL SYSTEM OR STAND ALONE) IS CONSIDERED GRAVITY FEEDING AND IS ILLEGAL.

• 49 CFR CH.III (393.67) 7.4.5.; Fuel withdrawal fittings. The fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full.
• In other words, the fuel must come from the top of the tank and not from a fitting on the bottom look at a OEM TANK.

Fines are varied per state some as little as 50$ and proof that tank/components are removed up to 25,000$ and seizure of vehicle. If a vehicle is in an accident or tank leaks; DOT can/will pass down the cost to repair and clean up roadway. He said this happened in Texas a couple years ago and the person was billed almost 100,000K to clean up ~38 gallons of unleaded fuel.

Illegal tank installation and manufacturing are subject to fines and seizure of inventory of tanks.

Aux or transfer tanks for diesel fuels are a different story but still must meet DOT, all regs above and in CA pass AIR BOARD and MUST BEST INSPECTED AND TESTED EVERY TWO YEARS. THESE DIESEL TANKS MUST BE MANUALLY OPERATED WITH THE VEHICLE TURNED OFF.

To sum it up.... if you have an "aux or transfer" gasoline tank it is illegal regardless of what anyone or the installer says. Imported tanks may meet their country regs, but are not "grandfathered" in the USA nor will they pass here.

He said if a GASOLINE aux/transfer tank was legal to make and sell he and every tank mfg in the country would be making and selling them for that purpose.

I called DOT in WY, CA, TX, OR, and WA today and all confirmed the above information. They all said the only way to gain more fuel capacity was to replace the primary/main tank with a larger capacity tank that was built in accordance with and comply with regulations from the Enviromental Protection Agency, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Vehicle Equipment Safety Commission, National Fire Prevention Association, and the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association.

So for me.... I will not build one of these for anyone under my name or company name.

Jason

 

[abuck99]

Good that you did some due diligence before getting too far down the rabbit hole.

So I wonder how LRA deals with the regulations with their aux tanks sold to be installed in the spare location.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Good that you did some due diligence before getting too far down the rabbit hole.

So I wonder how LRA deals with the regulations with their aux tanks sold to be installed in the spare location.

I ordered all the parts and even became an authorized reseller for the gauges from Apexus.. Good thing I can use most of the parts on a main tank build for another project.



J

 

[aaronrules]

So would there be a way of making a tank that works like a diesel AUX tank? One that has a some kind of hose and nozzle. The only difference being this is located not in the bed of a pickup and is carrying gas.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

So would there be a way of making a tank that works like a diesel AUX tank? One that has a some kind of hose and nozzle. The only difference being this is located not in the bed of a pickup and is carrying gas.

Diesel/Gas aux and transfer tanks are legal as long as they are not gravity fed and do not tie into the factory fuel system. The tanks you see in the back of trucks are DOT and EPA approved by certified manufacturers. They are a separate independent tank and system that must be operated independently and "supposed" to be operated while the vehicle is turned off.

A dual filler neck that combines the vent/evap-- illegal
An aux/transfer tank that transfers directly into the factory system-- illegal

The two main limiting factors here are:

1-- Fuel and evap lines can NOT be tied into the factory system. It has to be completely separate from the factory system
2-- It must be tested and a "SPECIAL PERMIT" must accompany these types of tank and install.

Currently per DOT and EPA ( a tank manufacturer with a "SPECIAL PERMIT"/DOT/ EPA approved MFG and DOT personnel in 5 different states confirmed no matter what way I tried to "arrange the tank, system or combination of) -- tying the two together is illegal.

J

 

[jmkfj60]

Jason, swinging by the shop today if your open to check out your builds

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Jason, swinging by the shop today if your open to check out your builds

I'll be here until around 2

 

[MongooseGA]

"Legal"...

Pfffffft.


I get it from your perspective, being a business. Am I understanding that a private owner couldn't even do their own? Seems stupid that that would even be a thing.

 

[krice118]

but people can drive around on old bald tires and worn out brake pads....

 

[MongooseGA]

but people can drive around on old bald tires and worn out brake pads....

And illegal tint, and illegal lights, and illegal lifts, and illegal exhausts, etc...

That's why I said it's stupid. A- it's irrelevant, legality =/= ethical or moral, and who is actually going to enforce a law that says you can't have a thing that you can't even see? It's stupid. I didn't want an aux tank before but now I do just to stick it to the Man.

The way around this, for vendors who are willing to take the risk, is to sell it like any other "illegal" item: "For off road use only". I'm not suggesting Jason put himself in that position but there are lots of "illegal" items on lots of our trucks right now.

 

[hidesertwheelin]

And illegal tint, and illegal lights, and illegal lifts, and illegal exhausts, etc...

That's why I said it's stupid. A- it's irrelevant, legality =/= ethical or moral, and who is actually going to enforce a law that says you can't have a thing that you can't even see? It's stupid. I didn't want an aux tank before but now I do just to stick it to the Man.

The way around this, for vendors who are willing to take the risk, is to sell it like any other "illegal" item: "For off road use only". I'm not suggesting Jason put himself in that position but there are lots of "illegal" items on lots of our trucks right now.

How many people are driving around on bead locks? I don't know of many DOT approved bead locks. I get it it from Jason's point of view, but I wouldn't let it stop me from installing one if I wanted to.

 

[MongooseGA]

That's my exact point.

 

[abuck99]

Just one regulator or one vampire of a lawyer can turn your world upside down in the unlikely event that a aftermarket self installed fuel tank that had some failure and impacted someone else's life or property. As a business owner- you always have to think worst case scenario, as a private individual you weigh the consequences.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Basically I asked the same question to DOT ... what if a individual wanted to make one on their own..

Response -- Anti tampering laws and emission laws are a federal regulation and offense. Just because it's personal property doesn't give them the right to decide the fate of everyone on the road, especially when it comes to public and environmental safety. There are probably 100's if not tens of thousands of these tanks and other items that are not legal in the regulations of DOT and EPA out on the roads today. But the fact is; that if in case of a spill or incident the violator would be 100% responsible for any and all infractions bodily and environmentally, basically gross neglect.

Will you ever get caught?? who knows... Will you ever be sued and fined... who knows...

To each their own on their decisions. As a business making or selling the exposure is 1000X greater than an individual running a tank.

A man once told me it's only unethical if you get caught.

Good luck to all,

J

 

[yotasavg]

Interesting info here. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Soooooo is a water tank back on the menu?

 

[jmkfj60]

I'll be here until around 2

I missed you, Next time.

 

[aaronrules]

According to the laws then, you can install a tank of some sort in the spare location. You would just have to treat it like it’s one of those that are in the bed of a pickup. A lot more fabrication would have to happen because you would have to run a separate hose and pump and whatnot, but as far legality is concerned, if someone wanted to tackle this, it seems like it would be possible. Or you can figure out a way to mount Jerry cans in that location!

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

According to the laws then, you can install a tank of some sort in the spare location. You would just have to treat it like it’s one of those that are in the bed of a pickup. A lot more fabrication would have to happen because you would have to run a separate hose and pump and whatnot, but as far legality is concerned, if someone wanted to tackle this, it seems like it would be possible. Or you can figure out a way to mount Jerry cans in that location!

A,

As far as "legal"

YES!!!!

As long as they are two separate units and the "spare" tank is not gravity fed (CAN NOT PULL FROM THE BOTTOM OF TANK)... IT IS LEGAL.

J

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

According to the laws then, you can install a tank of some sort in the spare location. You would just have to treat it like it’s one of those that are in the bed of a pickup. A lot more fabrication would have to happen because you would have to run a separate hose and pump and whatnot, but as far legality is concerned, if someone wanted to tackle this, it seems like it would be possible. Or you can figure out a way to mount Jerry cans in that location!

This is what I'll be doing with my tank and add the required rollover vent valve as well.

J

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Finally... my front is ready for powder. Rear will be finished next week along with the rack...

Jason