Electric power steering pump / Variable PS (1 Viewer)

[watrob]

I thought very seriously about going Electric motorised FJ rather than diesel.

What stopped me was DISTANCE, how far from the beach house I could go before I ran out of electricity, the problem was SIZE, WEIGHT of cable, energy lose, plus room required for the energy source.

This is what I came up with

 

[Degnol]

I've seen that setup on pulling trucks to hold on to every ounce of HP and torque the engine can supply. Are you strictly offroad, as in dedicated trail truck?

Ed

 

[wdorry]

Elec pump

It's not a bad idea but it still takes an amount of HP to drive the steering gearbox to do it's work. So I might be wrong but the ALT will need to work that much harder to produce the ELECTRIC to turn the electric pump. The alt is belt driven so I don't see any gain. No matter what you do the engine is still making the HP to do the steering. Bill

 

[Degnol]

It's not a bad idea but it still takes an amount of HP to drive the steering gearbox to do it's work. So I might be wrong but the ALT will need to work that much harder to produce the ELECTRIC to turn the electric pump. The alt is belt driven so I don't see any gain. No matter what you do the engine is still making the HP to do the steering. Bill

Yep. On the pulling trucks, it only runs off a battery, not the alt. But then again, they have no waterpump, either, just concreted blocks.

Ed

 

[kulangot]

Borgson is now offering an electric power steering box for street rods. One of the current Rod mags has a write up on it the system.

Can't see why it can't be done, but also can't see why you'd pay the $1600 they want for it vs. just doing it the normal way.

Any amount of MPG you gain will be trivial and I doubt that it would have the power of hydro. Seeing how rock rams have become popular and prevelant, I really can't see how it could be powerful enough.

 

[Ramas]

I had el.power steering pump instaled in samurai. e. power pump was taken from vw golf. Promblem was: small pressure, its designed for rail steering box and needs a lot el. power, its not good using with winch. But in other hand: its small and easy to instal, no belt.

 

[Coolerman]

Go for it, nothing like thinking outside the box AND owning a Cruiser.

Being mostly an electrical person, I agree that wiring is sometimes easier than metal fabbing!

My only concern if you decide to use the computer and VSS: Is the computer designed to feed power to the pump based on a 2024 lb car? If so on a 4000 lb truck there may not be enough signal to the pump at any given speed. This might result in heavy steering feel. Could be why the Jeep guy just runs it full tilt.

Post the full specs on the pump. Max Pressure, flow in GPH, bypass pressure, output shaft diameter, hose connection specs. That way folks can compare to their favorite pump.

Looking forward to a build thread on this one.

 

[shelfboy1]

the idea sounds feasable and probably will work.seems like a dry land idea how will it work under water or covered with 2 inches of mud.and if it shorts out do you have to wait for another one from the uk.not trying to be an ass but i dont like a lot of electrical stuff on my rigs because of the amount of mud, water ,trees and other obstacles they see .it would be interesting to see how this works could be the future who knows good luck

 

[joeyg1973]

My only concern if you decide to use the computer and VSS: Is the computer designed to feed power to the pump based on a 2024 lb car? If so on a 4000 lb truck there may not be enough signal to the pump at any given speed. This might result in heavy steering feel. Could be why the Jeep guy just runs it full tilt.

Well the vss is 4 pulses per revolution, if I need to I can change it to a 2 pulse per revolution if it turns off too soon for my taste. The Jeep guy is running it full tilt because he just has the pump.

Post the full specs on the pump. Max Pressure, flow in GPH, bypass pressure, output shaft diameter, hose connection specs. That way folks can compare to their favorite pump.

Looking forward to a build thread on this one.

I know that the pump is 2000 PSI and that if you don't get good hoses, this pump will blow them. I know this from reading about them in various places. As for the other specs, I have no idea.

the idea sounds feasable and probably will work.seems like a dry land idea how will it work under water or covered with 2 inches of mud.and if it shorts out do you have to wait for another one from the uk.not trying to be an ass but i dont like a lot of electrical stuff on my rigs because of the amount of mud, water ,trees and other obstacles they see .it would be interesting to see how this works could be the future who knows good luck

Since the car was sold in the US getting a rebuilt one is not an issue. Silicone is great for sealing up electrical connections from anything the environment can throw at it.

 

[shelfboy1]

i see on power block that electric fans and water pumps are becoming popular i geuss power steering is next being some what of an old school guy i will see what happens .the day could come that belt drive will be obsolete.i was just thinking my plow lifts are electric and my dump body is electric and they work good so maybey you are on to something keeps us posted please

 

[Coolerman]

Yes, and some new vehicles won't have separate starters, alternators or flywheels. They will be combined into one unit that starts the vehicle, generates power when running, recovers power when braking and provides the flywheel function.

Oh did I mention the 42 volt system?

Change is inevitable... Conformance though is optional...

 

[rusty_tlc]

So then, why is everything in heavy industry run on diesel electric then?

Why are these pumps coveted for use in racing applications?

Why are all the manufacturers rapidly moving to this setup?

A quick search on ebay motors shows 3 electric power steering pumps from 3 different car companies, Subarau, Mazda, and Cadillac.

electric power steering pump, Parts Accessories items on eBay.com

Either I am onto something here or I am the dumbest smart person ever.

DC motors are great at delivering uniform torque at any RPM, which is why they are popular in industrial drive applications. Is it the most efficient method? Not really, but it has advantages that outweigh the inefficiencies in certain applications.

I see a lot of guys on this forum talking about what people do in the racing world as far as lubricants and stuff go. I hate to break the news but an FJ40 is not a race car. It's closer to a tractor. Just because something is the kitties titties for racing does not mean the technology will apply to every situation.

The auto industry is also moving to a higher standard voltage, 42V IIRC? As we see more and more hybrids on the road you will see more and more electric accessories. This is because there will be energy stored in batteries rather than making energy on demand as is the case with strictly internal combustion systems.

Theres lots of stuff on e-bay, I even saw a lowered FJ40.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it or it's a bad idea. Just pointing out a couple of things. By all means proceed and keep us posted with your findings.

 

[Advent]

From the reading I've done on pirate, the electric pumps don't flow enough to power a hydraulic winch. Since electric winches are pretty darn easy to come by, using one would probably work better.

Two advantages to electric power steering pumps that nobody has mentioned yet:
1. You can run another alternator in the position a power steering pump would be. Duplication is good.
2. You can steer without the engine actually running. Need to get towed off the trail because you blew your engine? You can still have power steering!

If you run a hydroboost system with the electric pump you can also still have boosted brakes while the engine isn't running.

 

[Poser]

1. You can run another alternator in the position a power steering pump would be. Duplication is good.

But what about the parasitic drag that spinning another alternator creates on the engine?










Out the window goes all that power and the mileage increases one would expect with installing electric power steering.....

 

[Advent]

I'm just saying you could run two, or even three, alternators because there would be room for it.

I agree on the drag really not mattering with these engines. There are so many other places to get power that removing one pulley is pretty minimal.

 

[watrob]

There is one way to fix this problem which everybody has forgotten about so not to loose miles per gallon, energy from batteries and cause pollution:-

Use a manual steering box

Although it would be interest to see this on a FJ

 

[bsmith123]

pump

2000 psi sounds enough the rate of flow (GPM) may effect how fast you can turn the wheels though but I imagine they gave it more than enough for the OEM application so it might be adequate.

Seems like lack of sufficient flow could give you jerky operation as pressure will drop with increased flow. One test you might want to do is turning the wheel as fast as you can and see if it keeps up.

If the pump is sufficiently rugged it could be as simple as bigger lines to increase flow, up to a point I suppose.

On the electrical power if you fooled the system to max output with the switch wouldn't that give you the full draw ("the Load") on the motor. I don't know maybe 60 amps would be all right for a while just seems a lot to me if that is in fact what you would have at the max output setting. Seems like 60 amps constant could affect alt life especially add in heat, wipers, high beams, aux lights, so maybe a H/D alt would be in order. But I'm just basing that on gut feeling.

Not that any of this means it wouldn't be practical--- it's just the stuff I would think about and research before the install

Probably could do geek math and figure it out

nah just install it and see!

looking forward to seeing the posts

 

[joeyg1973]

On the electrical power if you fooled the system to max output with the switch wouldn't that give you the full draw ("the Load") on the motor.

The only time it will draw 60 amps is when it is at 0 rpms. If I am not turning the wheel there is minimal load on the pump because it is only pushing around fluid. The most I expect the load to go up to is maybe 30 amps once in a blue moon. Look at one of my previous posts about amp load on DC brush motors. 60 amps is only the draw at 0 rpms.

Hmm I am thinking I could figure out the GPH by seeing how fast it pumps a gallon through it on the bench. That shouldn't be to hard.

 

[joeyg1973]

You know the EPS is just a minor piece to this FJ. I am also going to be running a Taurus fan, at some point an electric water pump, and a Megasquirt 2 Extra. The MS2extra is going to be getting crank position info from a 3FE Distributor and directly firing a ford EDIS-6 wasted spark coil. It is also going to handle fuel injection for a 4.3 TBI with dual fuel maps so that I can have an economy mode at the flick of a switch. It will also be controlling both hi and low on the Taurus fan. At some point in the future, I also want to put the eaton M62 supercharger on it from a Mercedes Benz SLK or CLK 2.3 litre as these have an AC style clutch with an air bypass so that you can turn the supercharger on and off.

So the EPS is just a small part of this project. *insert geeky nerdy smiley here*

 

[Advent]

How are you planning to fit a taurus fan with the 2F?

What electric water pump are you planning to use?