Electric motor conversion?

[sogafarm]

Has anyone had any experience with converting their cruiser to Electric? Companies such as Wilderness E.V. offer electric conversion kits for a number of lighter vehicles such as Chevy S-10's and other light trucks in a variety of volt systems from 144 volt and up. These are plug-in electric motor driven systems that you literally plug-in and recharge overnight.
My 82 fj60 has almost 250,000 miles and I'm looking for an alternative to a rebuild or chevy conversion as the price of gas is only going to go up from here. I have the electric bike conversion on my beach cruiser and have been loving the set-up. I want to go the next step and convert my fj60 if I can find the appropriate set-up.
Anyone have any sources or ideas?

 

[RockDoc]

I am definately no expert, but I think an electric is a bad idea for an off-road vehicle (if that is how you use yours) not to mention pushing the weight of a 60.

An electric would wind up in RPM in no time, so as soon as you loose traction, you will have major wheel spin, rather than the control you have with a gas engine and the intertia of the drivetrain. I remember hearing some about this when they came out with the hybrid Escape.

I kind of think such a swap into a 25 year old tank is pie in the sky. A diesel on the other hand....

 

[Dazza]

go with a turbo 3b and run biodiesel... or waste vegetable oil!

 

[sogafarm]

here's a guy who converted his jeep cherokee to electric. http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/qa/index.php#conversion_choice_cost_power_grid

 

[Marc311]

I'm all for being innovative to minimize our impact, but this just doesn't seem practical. If you want to do it just for the experience and to have a one of a kind rig - more power to you. But the guy in the Cherokee above is getting 30-35 miles per charge - only about 25 miles at highway speeds! I guess for a farm o ranch vehicle that would be okay, but for regular use it would be unbearable and would likely leave you stranded.

I also question the "green" aspect of all these electrical vehicles. The batteries are toxic and they still get charged from power plants running oil/gas or coal. Seems bio diesel would be the best "green" solution.

(not trying to make this political - just questioning the practicality)

 

[lathrop]

I have been dreaming of an electric conversion for 30 years. I have friends who race EV's. Altho converting an LC is doable. The basic structure is Heavy. Which means a large E. Motor. and a big heavy battery bank. The upshot is you might have 15 mile range at best. At this point off the shelf conversions are expensive. I just looked at one for a Porche that cost. 10K If you want to do an EV look for something light. One popular conversion is Rabbit. adapter plates etc. are off the shelf. Start looking for an EV list. 1 thing to keep in mind is that not all HP are created = Electric is maybe 2+ of diesel and diesel is ~2+ of gas. So a 30 hp E. motor is easily = to a 90hp gas. The dynamics are different. An electric motor develo-ps max torgue as it approaches min rpm. also consumes max power at that point. Another thing to consider is that dc motors ratted at 2V can be run at much higher voltages. say $* 0r 96 V. The effective HP goews up with the voltage. ETC EtcEtc.

 

[sogafarm]

I think that the practicality of such a conversion would greatly rely on the type of batteries used. the new nanophoshate lithium batteries are starting to get cheaper with companies such as A123 Systems coming on the battery scene. the nano-pho batteries seem to pack alot more power in a lighter and smaller package compared to the sealed-lead acid batteries and don't do the exploding thing like the regular lithium batteries.
I really like the simplicity of the electric motor compared to any combustion engine and they are supposedly almost maintenance free and there are not really any parts to break or oil to change. The low-end torque at zero rpm should do well in off-road conditions.
The limited range would definately be a factor in how I could use the vehicle, but for short trips, the idea of never needing to buy gas would be a plus. I would mainly use it as a farm/hunting vehicle with an occasional trip into town(30 miles round trip).
I like the idea of using a diesel and running it on biodiesel or waste veggie oil, but the complexity of finding a suitable engine(in the U.S.) and having someone install it gets very expensive and then there is the maintenance and price of replacement parts that will enevitably wear down.

 

[BiG BoB]

Perhaps Hybrid could be an option for you?

I'm thinking something along the lines of an electric motor (or motors) spinning the wheels, being run off a battery bank (perhaps under a false floor in the rear?)

You would then have plenty of excess space in the engine bay, where a small diesel engine could be mounted, running off vege oil.

The vehicle could be charged from the mains power at home/work, with the generator extending the range for longer trips.

I doubt that the generator would be large enough to run the vehicle off, however it could be set up with a good muffler/silencer so as the vehicle could be charged whilst parked...

Hopefully the generator could be large enough to provide most / all of the energy required for moving at speed, whilst the batteries supply extra reserves of current for starting from stationary, climbing hills, etc

Sean

 

[roundrocktom]

Rockdoc... with the electric you have ALL YOUR TORQUE at near zero RPM! 200 ft-lbs of torque is cool, at 50 rpm it is incredible.

Power Hound -- where are you located? We need to meet up for a beer.

I had an electric vehicle, but it stayed with my old employer when I left 7 years ago. At the time I headed up a power-train applications group for a semiconductor company. Translation... got paid to play with neat s***! No idea where the truck is today. It was a "one off" prototype, built as part of a demo project.

Marc311 -- true. Still power plants capture the pollutants extremely well. There are some ev Folks who are completely off grid. Yes, batteries have lead and are toxic, but recycle centers know how to handle that. Had someone comment "ya, recycle is down in third world countries.... " true, but the biggest recyclers is here in USA (near Cincinnati) under full EPA inspections.

Wild EV had a nice write up on there electric rover that was off roaded.

Ya, I still want to get my hands on a 'hybrid transmission' from GM for the cruiser.

At work I realized my group didn't really understand how an automatic transmission worked, so we had "tear down" over pizza and beer at my house for a Friday Afternoon tech session. Yep, ripped apart a junk yard tranny on the kitchen island at my house (yes, I was divorced at the time... car part invaded the house).

Tom

 

[sogafarm]

nice pics tom! What kind of motor is in the truck dc or ac? Controller? Voltage? Etc. I have seen a few semi hybrid versions of kits that use a small diesel generator to keep the batteries charged up on extended trips. I would think that I could cut out the tank and store some of the batteries there as well as along the frame rails. I saw the rover from Wilde EV's websight. they pitched it against a stock gasser and it beat it in off-road tests and had a lower center of gravity to boot.
I live and work in the vail valley, colorado but plan on retiring the cruiser to the family farm in south georgia and use it for hunting and mucking around down there in Quail Country.

It's dumping white gold outside!

 

[roundrocktom]

Motor and controller were custom built.

Motor was a commercial off the shelf 3 phase, but rewound to match voltage/current curves.

Three phase controller. Simple to recapture energy during coasting (down hill grades).

Richard Valentine's group in Phoenix built the truck. So "Motor Control Electronics Handbook" outlined most of the details. They were working on next generation IGBT power control modules. When that group was axed, the truck was sent to Austin, TX were my group was power train applications, hence the 68332 and MPC555 based control on the 3 phase.

24 batteries back there. Optima 31's that could handle 1000 Amps each, peaked around 1400 Amp. So in Theory that was 288KW of power on tap. The big advantage was being able to have near full torque at a very low rpm.

Batteries weighed in at 80 pounds Each. About 2000 pounds. Tipped the scales at close to 5700 pounds,
hence the Dakota for size & weight capacity.

So it was more of a rolling R&D lab than anything else. The Optima's did not do well with deep discharges, but for maximum range you want deep discharge. Irony is for most folks having a 20 mile range, place to 'top up', then a 20 mile commute home is fine. Battery pack could do 60 mile range, at 60 mph, but battery life was down to 100 cycles. Keep the discharge to 20 mile, and you had a 2000 cycle life.

I still have a Datsun 210 (small rear wheel drive sedan) that would be ideal for a 96V to 120V system. Electric motor/w automatic gear sets for size could fit into the transmission tunnel. I'd go with Golf cart flooded cells (not as fast acceleration as an Optima, but much longer cycle life) down low. Realizty is too many projects, never enough time to get to them all.

Tom

 

[RockDoc]

Roundrocktom: My issue isn't power, but how it would behave in poor traction. I am absolutely no expert on electric power, but it seems to me that all that torque would easily translate to excessive wheel spin when a couple tires loose traction. Mind you, if your diffs aren't open, I suppose this wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[roundrocktom]

Roundrocktom: My issue isn't power, but how it would behave in poor traction. I am absolutely no expert on electric power, but it seems to me that all that torque would easily translate to excessive wheel spin when a couple tires loose traction. Mind you, if your diffs aren't open, I suppose this wouldn't be much of an issue.

Nope.

Reason why is the 'full torque' at very low rpm. You could have 50 rpm, so that tire is barely rolling, but there is enough torque it does not stall. Just keeps rolling forward.

For wheel spin you need excessive rpm.... so with limited rpm, gobs of torque, it just keeps moving forward.

The "throttle pedal" to "motor rpm" can also be controlled. Heck, have a dash mounted switch to "limit 600 rpm" that means full throttle is 600 rpm. As long as the ground is solid enough to support moving forward, you'll do just that! Even for downhill approaches, set up the system to 'engine brake' the rpm. Whole idea is you have stock gearing, but could act as it you had a 200:1 crawl ratio gears (limit motor rpm), get back on the high way and allow full rpm. Pretty trick!

Tom

 

[Seth S]

While stumbling around deep in the Mud basement I tripped over this old thread. Once I blew off the dust and cleaned the webs and mouse nests off I thought it was an interesting look into the EV world history. 12 years ago was just before the first Tesla was offered to the public and I don't think there were any other real main stream EV's available.

Fast forward to today and I just drove a friend's new Hyundai Kona EV yesterday. I was really impressed with how it drove, handled, fit etc. It was a rocket for sure and he had fantastic range in it..like 280 miles on a full charge. He said its costing him about $1.50 in electricity for his daily commute of 60 miles....by comparison it would cost me about $16 if i commuted every day 60 miles in the 60 I think he paid about $42,000 for the car but he did get the federal $7500 credit and the Vermont $1500 credit...so maybe its a $32,000 car. Still about a $500/mo payment + insurance....so still too much for me...but in a few more years when the EV versions hit parity with their gas counter parts I think that will be a turning point.


on the topic of an EV 60...well sure it could be done but I feel like the character of the vehicle would be gone.

 

[sogafarm]

While stumbling around deep in the Mud basement I tripped over this old thread. Once I blew off the dust and cleaned the webs and mouse nests off I thought it was an interesting look into the EV world history. 12 years ago was just before the first Tesla was offered to the public and I don't think there were any other real main stream EV's available.

Fast forward to today and I just drove a friend's new Hyundai Kona EV yesterday. I was really impressed with how it drove, handled, fit etc. It was a rocket for sure and he had fantastic range in it..like 280 miles on a full charge. He said its costing him about $1.50 in electricity for his daily commute of 60 miles....by comparison it would cost me about $16 if i commuted every day 60 miles in the 60 I think he paid about $42,000 for the car but he did get the federal $7500 credit and the Vermont $1500 credit...so maybe its a $32,000 car. Still about a $500/mo payment + insurance....so still too much for me...but in a few more years when the EV versions hit parity with their gas counter parts I think that will be a turning point.


on the topic of an EV 60...well sure it could be done but I feel like the character of the vehicle would be gone.

Ha! I was just stumbling around in the old MUD basement myself and @powderhound was my original handle from back in 2003. I was all in the alternative power game back when gas prices shot up the first time in the 2000's. Wish I still had that 82 FJ60 and regret selling it everyday especially for that cheap, LOL! Electric vehicles really did take off after that time.

 

[toy_tek]

1980-1990 Toyota Land Cruiser 60/61/62 - Electric GT

60 Series Land Cruisers are quickly appreciating in value as a collectible and will never go out of style, and as a rule are one of the most robust and reliable vehicles ever made! That being said, 2F and 3FE straight six engines are underpowered and inefficient with parts that are expensive and...

electricgt.com

This is interesting

 

[Spook50]

1980-1990 Toyota Land Cruiser 60/61/62 - Electric GT

60 Series Land Cruisers are quickly appreciating in value as a collectible and will never go out of style, and as a rule are one of the most robust and reliable vehicles ever made! That being said, 2F and 3FE straight six engines are underpowered and inefficient with parts that are expensive and...

electricgt.com

This is interesting

I like the idea, but wouldn't even give it a second thought until battery tech is vastly improved (nothing short of revolutionized).

 

[sogafarm]

1980-1990 Toyota Land Cruiser 60/61/62 - Electric GT

60 Series Land Cruisers are quickly appreciating in value as a collectible and will never go out of style, and as a rule are one of the most robust and reliable vehicles ever made! That being said, 2F and 3FE straight six engines are underpowered and inefficient with parts that are expensive and...

electricgt.com

This is interesting

Never thought I would see that! Yes very interesting that they have a kit for the 60 of all vehicles. It amazing that they jumped in value in just 10 years like they did. I used to pick them up for under 3-4k all the time in the 2000’s. Now they are in the $20k+ range. You can get fj40’s for less these days.

 

[toy_tek]

I like the idea, but wouldn't even give it a second thought until battery tech is vastly improved (nothing short of revolutionized).

Similarly, this wouldn’t be a good application for my current use/need. But I’d bet some day battery tech will catch up to be a viable option for use beyond local commuting. If not battery tech, then some other power generation system will come to the forefront.

Either way, it’s cool that the potential exists to retrofit classic rides for continued use.