EGR pipe repair order of disassembly and assembly question

OSS

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After I got my SOR stainless EGR J/Pipe all installed to the best of my ability and I was done with it, the pipe most definitely did not have a hermetically airtight perfect seal inside the EGR cooler. I think I never did get the furrel situation perfected. I know the big cooler nut didn’t clamp down tight on the furrel and lock the pipe in place.

Even with that less than stellar interface at the cooler junction, I never heard a EGR leak again or saw evidence on the pipe (exhaust soot) that there was any visible leaking.

My conclusion- the new J-pipe to cooler connection doesn’t have to be perfect for the contraption to work as desired.
The ultra annoying exhaust leak sound sputtering from the old EGR pipe is primarily caused at the flange interface at the manifold with the original lame flanged pipe.
 

DFXR

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After I got my SOR stainless EGR J/Pipe all installed to the best of my ability and I was done with it, the pipe most definitely did not have a hermetically airtight perfect seal inside the EGR cooler. I think I never did get the furrel situation perfected. I know the big cooler nut didn’t clamp down tight on the furrel and lock the pipe in place.

Even with that less than stellar interface at the cooler junction, I never heard a EGR leak again or saw evidence on the pipe (exhaust soot) that there was any visible leaking.

My conclusion- the new J-pipe to cooler connection doesn’t have to be perfect for the contraption to work as desired.
The ultra annoying exhaust leak sound sputtering from the old EGR pipe is primarily caused at the flange interface at the manifold with the original lame flanged pipe.
I now remember that I cut the ferrule to fit it on the SOR pipe. Which is why I added the ultra copper to the mix. Not ideal, and defeating the purpose of the ferrule. I was frustrated.

But like OSS, I have not seen any leak down there.

You’re definitely correct that the pipe will need to be relatively loose in the cooler/ferrule/nut zone in order to get the back connection at the manifold set.

Also, since you have it off, it’s a good time to clean the EGR valve itself.
 

Spike Strip

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IIRC the olive came off the stock pipe with a little heat and a wire wheel, then I used some emery cloth on the SOR pipe to get a slip-fit and a whole lot of nickel antisieze to make sure I could get it apart again.
 

CruiserTrash

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@g-man At least from CCOT, the used ferrule I ordered was the smaller diameter one for the upper pipe (EGR inlet into intake manifold), even though it was listed as being the lower one. I wonder if SOR's is the same. That's why I installed the J-pipe with no ferrule last time.

@OSS In the right light I can see puffs of air shooting out from the big nut/J-pipe interface in time with the cylinders firing. Definitely soot on my pipe there too. Surprisingly no soot at the J-pipe/exhaust manifold flange connection. I used one of the thicker gaskets on that last time around. This is why I had a machinist make me a lower ferrule. As far as sealing goes I think that ferrule would take a few test fits to get right. It has to be slid to just the right position so the nut doesn't bottom out before compressing it - and I assume when the nut gets torqued down the ferrule doesn't slip due to how tight the diameter fits on the J-pip, friction essentially. Do you think I'm thinking about that the right way. Again, I'm in the mix on the this conversation because I'll be doing this in the next couple weeks when I swap my head.
 

g-man

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It has to be slid to just the right position so the nut doesn't bottom out before compressing it - and I assume when the nut gets torqued down the ferrule doesn't slip due to how tight the diameter fits on the J-pip


If you look at the ferrule it has beveled edges on both sides. Angled down at about a 30 to 45 degree angle. This is so it can flush up on the corresponding bevel on the nut and I believe at the back of the hole in the cooler. So, when you tighten down the nut these beveled edges get pressure that will squeeze the ferrule seating it on the pipe. I have a groove in my old pipe where the ferrule was compressed. So when you put the new ferrule on ...it has to be loose enough to slide on the pipe to move to the right place (allowing for movement to get the flange on the studs) but once you tighten the nut you are setting it in position and the pipe isn't going to move out or in. That's why I think you need to bolt up the cooler and the flange first ...THEN tighten the nut.

If anyone knows of a replacement ferrule I'd be interested to know where you sourced it and a description. It needs to have the bevels on both edges, be roughly the same thickness so the nut doesn't bottom out before compressing, but slightly thicker might be ok. It has to be of the same material/heat resistance. I also noticed that the inside of ferrule that the edges contact the pipe but the center does not. This I guess is designed intentionally for movement when crushed.
 
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CruiserTrash

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If you look at the ferrule it has beveled edges on both sides. Angled down at about a 30 to 45 degree angle. This is so it can flush up on the corresponding bevel on the nut and I believe at the back of the hole in the cooler. So, when you tighten down the nut these beveled edges get pressure that will squeeze the ferrule seating it on the pipe. I have a groove in my old pipe where the ferrule was compressed. So when you put the new ferrule on ...it has to be loose enough to slide on the pipe to the move to the right place(allowing for movement to get the flange on the studs) but once you tighten the nut you are setting it in position and the pipe isn't going to move out or in. That's why I think you need to bolt up the cooler and the flange first ...THEN tighten the nut.

If anyone knows of a replacement ferrule I'd be interested to know where you sourced it and a description. It needs to have the bevels on both edges, be roughly the same thickness so the nut doesn't bottom out before compressing, but slightly thicker might be ok. It has to be of the same material/heat resistance. I also noticed that the inside of ferrule that the edges contact the pipe but the center does not. This I guess is designed intentionally for movement when crushed.
Just like a plumbing fitting. The softer ferrule gets squeezed to make a leak-free seal.

Like I said, the machinist that is making my replacement ferrule went ahead and made several more (he already had the material so he just made what he could). I'm picking them up today or tomorrow so we'll see how they fit. Let me know if you're interested in one.
 

g-man

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Just like a plumbing fitting. The softer ferrule gets squeezed to make a leak-free seal.

Like I said, the machinist that is making my replacement ferrule went ahead and made several more (he already had the material so he just made what he could). I'm picking them up today or tomorrow so we'll see how they fit. Let me know if you're interested in one.
Did he bevel the edges? Or just cut 1 inch ID brass pipe? Post up a pic when you get it.
 

CruiserTrash

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Did he bevel the edges? Or just cut 1 inch ID brass pipe? Post up a pic when you get it.
I was able to get an old used one from somebody so I gave him that to match, with the understanding that the old one would have already been compressed to fit. I also told him that I had heard somewhere (perhaps on Mud, I can't recall) that often times beveled JIS stuff, like compression fittings on power steering, may not be at a 45* angle - it might be 30 or 35* or something else. So he was going to measure the example piece well and try his best at copying it with a little extra wiggle room. I'll send a photo when I get it in my hands. Hopefully this week.

I should note that this machinist is a Land Cruiser guy, which is how we connected. He had a restored 40 sitting in front of his house. He [hopefully] gets what the mission is here.
 

g-man

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I also noticed that the
IIRC the olive came off the stock pipe with a little heat and a wire wheel, then I used some emery cloth on the SOR pipe to get a slip-fit and a whole lot of nickel antisieze to make sure I could get it apart again.
Seems like taking the SS pipe down with emery is a good solution too. I mean that little difference in pipe diameter size shouldn't affect the seal and it's easier to sand it down than to try and file out the inside diameter of the ferrule.
 

CruiserTrash

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I also noticed that the

Seems like taking the SS pipe down with emery is a good solution too. I mean that little difference in pipe diameter size shouldn't affect the seal and it's easier to sand it down than to try and file out the inside diameter of the ferrule.
And the ferrule will compress against the J-pipe as the nut tightens it against the EGR cooler - no matter the diameter of the J-pipe. I mean, it should be close, the ferrule metal can't deform to some extreme degree, but you get the point.

turns out I'm meeting the guy in an hour to pick up his ferrule replicas and some other pieces he was making for me (Tuffy/CCOT center console dividers anyone?)
 

g-man

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I had to make an "SST" 36mm cheap Harbor Fgt wrench cut down. Spray the nut with PB blaster or kroil for a day or so then put the sst on it and WHACK with a BFH ... Crude, but effective.

I've seen some others where the "maker" just cut some 1/4" stock to the proper and used that. But wrench was like $10 and faster.

btw, when you re-assemble, use some good high-temp anti-seize on all the egr fittings and you'll never have the problem again.
View attachment 408938

I may be heading to Harbor Freight to do this for the re-install and any further repairs.
 

CruiserTrash

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@g-man
0D3F0336-13A7-490C-85DC-6E39F33EC0D5.jpeg
 

CruiserTrash

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I would consider these beta test units y'all. I am happy to send at cost (cheap!) if you can just give me feedback on how well they work. Obviously they are a touch different. I have not stuck these under the EGR cooler nut to check the OD fit - don't have an EGR cooler nut I've been able to remove yet haha.

I'll get to answering PMs shortly.

A12FA91F-99AC-48A0-89B5-56920870D52D.jpeg
 

g-man

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what do you think about these wrench options for tightening/loosening the big nut on the vehicle?



This one too but use as a striking wrench?
Amazon product
 

DFXR

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what do you think about these wrench options for tightening/loosening the big nut on the vehicle?



This one too but use as a striking wrench?
Amazon product

It’s really, really tight in there as you know. I cut a 36mm wrench down to fit in the space for the j-pipe nut in particular, but then could not get much purchase on it. I tried a couple of different stubby crescent wrenches but they were all wobbly when opened up to 36mm.

In the end, some short channel locks worked. I can take a pic. My thinking - since there is no gasket to burn out in that connection, does it have to be super tight? I was able to get it pretty good with the channel locks and ultra copper. Taking the splash guard off of the frame would help a lot but I never did that.

Note: none of this applies to busting loose a seized nut. I am talking mostly about re-assembly.
 

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