E15 Gas?? Just how bad is it for our precious SUV's? (1 Viewer)

[r2m]

Today President Biden just announced authorization of E15 gas to increase U.S. fuel supply and reduce prices.
First off: THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A POLITICAL DEBATE OR THRASHING. I think we know where some of our views lie, so let's keep this civil and on post. Thank you all.

Seeing this, first off, the article I read says that it could be as much as .10¢ less than Regular gas. Purusing through Google I'm also reading that even though it has 88 octane, more than Regular gas, it provides less performance, e.g. lower MPG and power.

My question is, does anyone know, or has anyone used this E15 gas on their GX460's? Found several articles that read it's supposed to be "Okay" to use in on any vehicles after 2001. Will it in time destroy our indestructible 4.6 liter motors? Does MPG really suck using it?

 

[sogafarm]

Yes the mpg's will suffer with ethanol vs. 100% reg. gas.

 

[xychromosome]

From our manuals: use up to 15% ethanol fuel is ok apparently

 

[r2m]

Do you have any personal knowledge of how much less MPG (average)?
It would interesting to do a little math to see what the .10¢ savings is verses reduced MPG.
I have a feeling I'll just be stay with my Premium and the $$$ prices.

 

[r2m]

From our manuals: use up to 15% ethanol fuel is ok apparently

View attachment 2979323

This is EXACTLY one of the questions I was curious about.
Thanks for this post!

 

[xychromosome]

Do you have any personal knowledge of how much less MPG (average)?
It would interesting to do a little math to see what the .10¢ savings is verses reduced MPG.
I have a feeling I'll just be stay with my Premium and the $$$ prices.

Does the increase to 15% affect all grades of gas or just 87 octane?

 

[xychromosome]

From my limited google search, looks like this will only affect regular gas, not the premium stuff our rigs are meant to use

"E15 is a fuel blend of 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline, as opposed to E10 (the most commonly used gas in the United States), which contains 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, according to the Iowa Renewable Fuels Association. E15 is a higher octane than E10, typically marketed as 88 octane as opposed to E10, which is 87."

 

[sogafarm]

Do you have any personal knowledge of how much less MPG (average)?
It would interesting to do a little math to see what the .10¢ savings is verses reduced MPG.
I have a feeling I'll just be stay with my Premium and the $$$ prices.

That would depend on different factors such as driver, vehicle, etc. From my personal experience with different vehicles over the years, I would guess that high ethanol content would drive down mpg's by at least 5% or more. You can definitely tell the power difference with reg gas vs. ethanol so less pedal application for the same situation would translate to better mpg's either way.

On another note, the ethanol making process is very wasteful and uses a lot of fresh water and the fact that we are taking away farmland that would otherwise be used for food production is a big red flag for me. The tractors, trucks, etc that are used in the growing and transportation of corn ethanol all use diesel, so where is the benefit? Corn uses more water to grow than almost any other produce and needs tons of petro based fertilizer. The local farmers here have quit growing corn for this season since fertilizer prices have gone through the roof this year. It's just not worth it in my opinion.

 

[mudwagon]

This is EXACTLY one of the questions I was curious about.
Thanks for this post!

Just a note different manuals show different amounts. MY13 shows maximum of 10% ethanol. Could be some calibration or injector differences to compensate for 15% ethanol. I know it will cause more carbon buildup and clogging of injectors with prolonged usage of higher ethanol amounts in addition to potentially less mpg.

 

[GrizzlyClint]

On another note, the ethanol making process is very wasteful and uses a lot of fresh water and the fact that we are taking away farmland that would otherwise be used for food production is a big red flag for me. The tractors, trucks, etc that are used in the growing and transportation of corn ethanol all use diesel, so where is the benefit? Corn uses more water to grow than almost any other produce and needs tons of petro based fertilizer. The local farmers here have quit growing corn for this season since fertilizer prices have gone through the roof this year. It's just not worth it in my opinion.

Not to mention those sweet sweet subsidies.

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t ethanol increase the moisture in the tank thus leading to more and faster corrosion? I know when I had a flex fuel Ford Focus E85 was a joke and a scam. It costed a little less but my MPG went from 23-27 to 16-21 causing me to fill up more often obviously. Thus generating more tax revenue. The whole ethanol thing is a scam.

I don’t want any part of it and if premium gets hit with it I’ll sell and buy a BEV or another PHEV. I’m just not interested in these shenanigans.

 

[r2m]

From our manuals: use up to 15% ethanol fuel is ok apparently

View attachment 2979323

As mudwagon posted about different years manuals state different spec's, do you recall what year manual this page come from?

 

[xychromosome]

As mudwagon posted about different years manuals state different spec's, do you recall what year manual this page come from?

2015

 

[fjc-man]

I think most newer (2000+) gas vehicle fuel management systems would have no problem adjusting for e15. Some if not all, will actually handle e85 as well.

 

[sheptastic]

E15 wasn't authorized necessarily. The EPA's restriction on selling E15 during the summer was waived, so it can be sold year-round now. Ethanol is volatile and increases rates of evaporation in gasoline. E10 evaporates less in the summer, in theory reducing pollution from evaporation. Ethanol boosts octane, giving E15 88 octane vs. E10's 87 octane. Water can mix with ethanol and contaminate fuel, but seems to be a larger issue for engines that are not run very often. Ethanol is corrosive and can damage rubber and metal fuel system components. Many vehicles manufactured after 2001 were designed to accommodate some ethanol in the fuel. Ethanol has less energy density than gasoline and requires more volume for the same amount of power. The more ethanol, the lower the MPG.

Ethanol is cheaper, but doesn't really seem like a great fuel for gasoline engines. Seems like we may see more E15 being sold instead of E10, but they don't seem that different from each other. As for the GX, if the manual says OK up to 15% ethanol, the higher octane of E15 is probably better than E10. However, the manual also states a minimum octane of 91. If you're going by the manual, don't use E10 or E15.

Funny how much gas we use and how mythical its contents are. States have ethanol requirements, blends are proprietary, etc. I can't find any clear language about what ethanol requirements are for which grades of gas in Oregon, or any information about what's in the gas I regularly use. I'll stick with my 92 octane premium that likely has some ethanol in it to boost octane and see if I see a change in the signage that says "may contain up to 10% ethanol".

 

[L8Shift]

There's an App for Ethanol Free fuel!

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

 

[GrizzlyClint]

There's an App for Ethanol Free fuel!

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

That’s a crock because ethanol free is only available near me for regular octane and is SUPER BLOODY EXPENSIVE.

I’ll keep my tin foil hat on and continue to believe this is all a scam to get more tax revenue. Plus no way in hell do I want MORE ethanol in my GX. It sits 90% of the time now that I have a PHEV and the current admin’s lovely inflation situation. It’s just asking for trouble sitting with more ethanol in the tank.

 

[fjc-man]

And the oil industry is loving it

 

[SarasotaStig]

As mudwagon posted about different years manuals state different spec's, do you recall what year manual this page come from?

FWIW, 2013 manual, pages 116 and 772 have the same graphic but say only up to 10%, and specifically state not to use E15, E50, E85, or anything with more than 10% ethanol.

I vaguely remember someone mentioning an SAE article from the 80s or something about ethanol blends, basically indicating that ethanol does not significantly affect engine wear. The issue is ethanol blends tend to absorb water, in that when ethanol and gasoline are blended, and then ethanol takes on water, the ethanol/water solution separates from the gasoline, which sinks to the bottom of the tank, while lower-octane gasoline floats to the top. It's the ethanol and water mix that tends to be super corrosive, and then the double whammy of lower octane gasoline = bad motoring times.

 

[GrizzlyClint]

FWIW, 2013 manual, pages 116 and 772 have the same graphic but say only up to 10%, and specifically state not to use E15, E50, E85, or anything with more than 10% ethanol.

Then more than likely my 2010’s manual says the same thing. I just don’t want anything to do with ethanol.

 

[Rednexus]

Even E10 fuel is notorious for destroying the fuel systems of small engines (lawn mowers, string trimmers, chainsaws, etc). As mentioned above, it is mildly corrosive for rubber and aluminimum. I've lost a Stihl trimmer to it and now only run all-petroleum 91 octane in my small engines. The GX if course has a higher quality fuel system, but there is no way I'd run E15 in mine.