Driving with broken power steering pump? (1 Viewer)

[Tofel]

Hi guys!

I had a leaking power steering pump, got a new one from Autozone (Duralast unfortunatelly as original Toyota would cost me here around $800), had it installed and the leak is gone The only problem is that power steering doesn't work anymore. Well it works only when the RPMs are higher or when I accelerate, but when the car is not moving turning the steering wheel is close to mission impossible. Now... I will have the power steering pump replaced, but that will take a few days as I'm in South of Mexico and Autozone needs to have one shipped from Arizona. My question is: can I drive with a defective power steering pump or because it is driven by a gear it might/will do some damage to the engine if it is not operating correctly? So far I only drove 2 miles back home and I'm unsure whether I should put any more miles on the engine...

What's interesting the pump did work for ca. 5 minutes before it developed a significant resistance. Do you think it was damaged from the start or my mechs messed up something? The latter seems of little probability as the workshop has an established reputation in the local gringo community.

Cheers,
Bartek

 

[95ToyCruiser]

Has the pump been bleed properly? Turn the wheel lock to lock about a million times with the truck off and the front tires off the ground to bleed all the air out.

When you get bubbles, replace with fluid, compete until you have no air, then start and make sure you see fluid pumping in the resivour...

 

[Tofel]

Has the pump been bleed properly? Turn the wheel lock to lock about a million times with the truck off and the front tires off the ground to bleed all the air out.

When you get bubbles, replace with fluid, compete until you have no air, then start and make sure you see fluid pumping in the resivour...

That's what we did. First with the reservior open turned the wheel lock to lock watching the bubbles comming out. Then we added new fluid three times and when the car was operating and wheels were turning there were no more bubbles comming out. But you think I should give the pump more time and turn, turn, turn?

 

[BILT4ME]

I had to turn mine about 100+ times with the wheels off the ground, going SLOW, and HOLD at the locked position to allow the bubbles to come up. I had to fill with fluid at LEAST 5 times, and this was only after replacing the hoses, I did not replace a pump or a gear.

 

[Tofel]

Thanks for the info! So I guess the pump might be good after all. I'll turn it more tomorrow (I can't get wheels of the ground in my place) and see whether that helps.

But... comming back to the main question: does it damage the engine when you drive with a damaged/not fully bleed-out pump?

 

[BILT4ME]

Using the logic of the fact that it is a gear driven pump, cannot be disengaged, and runs the entire time the engine runs, I would say do not run it unless there is oil in it and it has been properly bled.

Air does not lubricate. If there is air, it will overheat and the PS pump may melt down and lock up, then break the driven gear on the engine, and thus, break the drive gear on the engine. I wouldn't do it.

 

[Tofel]

Hmm... this might sound dumb, but from what you wrote I deduce you also bleed it with the engine OFF. I ask, as my mechs did it with the engine ON.

Otherwise I'd assume that the process of bleeding out the pump could result in overheating the pump and damaging the drive gear.

I'd also also assume that once the pump has been correctly bled out and has fluid in it, but it still does not work (e.g. pressure generating valve is damaged) one could still drive the car. Right?

 

[BILT4ME]

Definitely bleed it with the engine OFF.

The "pressure generating valve" is a lobe type gear pump. It is just like another set of gears rotating inside each other. Once the gears have worn so badly that all the pressure is bleeding past, then, theoretically, you could drive it. HOWEVER, that means that any pressure and PARTICULATE that being generated is also circulating. I would have to have a SERIOUS reason to have to drive somewhere else with a non-properly functioning pump to continue because you will continue to degrade the pump, steering gear, and possibly engine parts if a catastrophic failure occurs.

You mentioned you are South of Mexico. I don't know if that is your destination, or if you're trying to get the H377 out of there to get home or otherwise.

Here's a possibility: Can the pump be disassembled to remove the seals that create the pressure, re-route the lines back into the pump (bypass the steering gear) to allow the oil to continue to circulate, but not actuate the steering. It will steer hard as hell, but maybe it's more important to be moving than to be broke down.

If your life is in danger, then unhook the lines, and drive the truck out of there and hope for the best, but expect to have costly repairs at the end, and a risk of the pump exploding and wrecking the drive gear on the engine.

 

[BILT4ME]

More info:

Look at the diagram at the bottom. If it is indeed not working and you need to get out, take off the pump, disassemble it, remove the 10 vanes of the pump, put it back together, making sure it is sealed up, pour oil in the system so it has oil in it, and drive it . It will steer INCREDIBLY HARD and you need to keep your lines hooked up to the steering gear in order to prevent all oil loss. Your will only be able to steer it while the vehicle is rolling.

 

[BILT4ME]

Continued:

Could also remove the drive gear and put it all back together so the pump doesn't turn at all.

 

[Tofel]

Sorry for my English, I guess that I made some mistakes when writing the initial post. I should have written that I'm in Southern Mexico (Puerto Escondido to be exact). My original power steering pump was leaking so I got a reman by Duralast. The workshop I used has good reputation among local gringos (quite a few of them live here) so I assumed that this opinion is based on something. But now I'm not sure if that rep is well deserved if they bled out the pump for 5 minutes with the engine ON. Anyways it seems that the only logical thing to do while here is to go to a workshop with Toyota Repair Manual, get the tools from them and do everything by myself. This way if I won't be able to repair what I want I might at least do less damage to the car...

Oh, I'm on my way South, so I guess I'll have to wait for decent mechanics until I get to Chile/Argentina or ship the car to Australia (if I ever find that idea entertaining and cost-effective).

Thanks for help man! If you ever get South of USA (with a car or whatever) let me know. I'll have a bed and beer for you and your buddies (or a beer for you and a nice dinner for your family)!

I'll jack up the front axle later on (forgot I had the jack in the car) and see whether the pump has been bled thoroughly or not. If it was I'll go to Autozone and ask them to replace it with a working one. I'll be in Puerto for 1.5 months more so that should be enough to have to pump working.

Last, but not least. I filled this pump with power steering fluid, not DEX II. Any real difference in the way they work?

 

[BILT4ME]

It can take either one but the Dex III is preferred.

Good luck!

 

[Tofel]

Well... I've turned the steering wheel around 40 times with wheels of the ground with no visible difference in oil level before and after. I didn't have to add even a single drop. No single bubles where comming out at the end, but when I turned the engine on and set it on idle, power steering still didn't work. It was impossible to turn the wheels. ... but I've noticed a new sound when the engine was idling, which wasn't there before this whole change-the-pump event. A kind of regular low frequency tik-tik-tik sound (I'd imagine similar sound would be produced by some kind of propeller with plastic blades, which would bump against something while still rotating), seemingly comming from this side of the engine, where the pump is.

I wonder whether the mech could damage the pump as he used a pneumatic screwdriver to install the gear on the new pump. The gear itself from what I've seen looked undamaged.

 

[Kernal]

Other people have gotten that ticking sound when the pump gear was not placed on the pump shaft to the correct depth.

 

[Tofel]

Oh! Interesting clue... Actually when the mech wase installing the gear on the shaft I've noticed that the shaft wasn't level with the gear, but was ca. 1 mm shorter. I even asked him about that and he said that wouldn't go any further. Any idea how much of the shaft should stick out from the gear? Or should it be level with it? Any magic to properly installing woodruff key? Maybe he did this part wrong and the gear didn't go as deep as it should...