I also have a Roofnest mounted to a Frontrunner Slimline. You notice it a bit, especially in the wind, but very manageable.
Driving Through High Mountain Freeways (Lifted Rigs)
- Thread starter Wicked0ne18
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I run bilstein 6112/5160's also. Its perfect unloaded, but a little soft for my taste when fully loaded for a trip. On those hiway long sweeping turns; I felt the rig maybe leaning a little more than I would liked. My recent addition of front and rear dissent bumpers has it riding even more plush than before. I don't feel the need to run adjustable shocks yet since the vehicle is unloaded 98% of the time, but perhaps in the future I will.
- Thread starter
- #23
Thx for the feedback!
He's running 0 offset wheels according to earlier posts, so he's already out 2.4" at each corner vs OEM.
Thanks and this helps.
Some leaning and softness would be expected given your mods and RTT. Suspension is lifted, with taller tires that have more sidewall. Though I do believe you're experiencing more than would be expected given those alone, as the LC has KDSS that should provide pretty good roll resistance.
If you were looking to improve handling performance, one of the largest variables to address is scrub radius. Optimally for a for a 285/70R17 (32.7") tall tire, scrub radius should be +50. The wheelset you have is about 2" inches off in offset which is quite large. I know scrub radius is a hard to understand concept and not easily tangible, but it plays an important roll to what your experiencing.
Impacts:
- In a turn, the two front tires will point at two different headings. Meaning they don't work together to turn the rig towards the same spot. This discrepancy has a number of consequences beyond just reduced traction. Because they point at different paths, it causes them to work against each other, folding over the sidewall as they scrub across the road. Folding the tall sidewall will give the perceived effect of more roll. You know the tires are not working together when in tight parking lots, there's lots of tire squeal. That's the tires scrubbing and fighting each other.
- Motion ratio. This also might be a bit harder to understand. It's basically the ratio that the shock and sway bar move relative to wheel movement. Because the tire is further projected out on the control arm, the suspension and sway bars have a harder time controlling suspension motions at the tire. This can exacerbate handling impacts.
Don't know if you have your original wheel and tires. May be worth a try to see if that fixes your handling enough for your liking?
- Thread starter
- #26
I can tell the difference when loaded too. The front is much softer compared to the back. I have ome 2722. 5 bodies and full camping gears.
- Thread starter
- #27
Thx for the explanation. I could give a try with the stock wheels n tires. Problem is I do not have the exact type of terrain to test against. Those Colorado steep drops and climbs are no where to be found in the Midwest.
one thing to add is per @DJCloz and I experienced softness with the bilstein setup loaded. Being that I have the heavier ome 2722 rear springs that could be affect the lean balance behavior.
bloc
SILVER Star
How much weight is in that cargo box?
Also verify your KDSS screws got snugged up (don't over-tighten them though). If somehow they got left open.. heaps of body roll.
Technically the 2722 is still a "medium load" spring and 275lb/in. 2723 goes up to 440.. pretty significant difference.
Five people plus gear is a substantial amount of weight, and if what is in the box is heavy... yeah, it will sway.
Also verify your KDSS screws got snugged up (don't over-tighten them though). If somehow they got left open.. heaps of body roll.
Technically the 2722 is still a "medium load" spring and 275lb/in. 2723 goes up to 440.. pretty significant difference.
Five people plus gear is a substantial amount of weight, and if what is in the box is heavy... yeah, it will sway.
1world1love
SILVER Star
It’s apples to oranges, but I had pretty bad under steer and roll on my lx under the same conditions. Roof box and lots of gear. Of course I also have a lot of other mods.
I recently installed uprated springs on the rear and it made a huge difference at highway speeds.
Also, I will echo what linuxgod said about using gearing versus braking. The combination of long sweeping curves with a heavy rig that has a notorious dive with heavy brake pressure, and it will definitely make for a squirrelly situation that could get out of hand quickly.
I recently installed uprated springs on the rear and it made a huge difference at highway speeds.
Also, I will echo what linuxgod said about using gearing versus braking. The combination of long sweeping curves with a heavy rig that has a notorious dive with heavy brake pressure, and it will definitely make for a squirrelly situation that could get out of hand quickly.
I had my Thule Atlantis 1600 roof box on for the first time this weekend, full of beach and oversand gear, with 2 adults, 2 kids and 1 dog in crate aboard, plus a ridiculous amount of luggage for a short trip, including an excessive amount of electronic devices, laptops and chargers, food and water as if we were traversing death valley, powertank, and one rear seat removed. Stock suspension, stock wheels, Michelin Latitude Tours. About 300 miles total, with nothing quite like curving mountain passes, but the handling was far worse than normal, and normal ain't that great. Unnerving amount of body roll. I definitely had to dial it back on off ramps and some curves.
I'm with @WCDAVE - check your camber. I have been unhappy with the noticeable positive camber in the front of my LC since I took delivery back in early May, so much so that I'm thinking of getting an alignment done now to zero it out, before switching over to winter tires in November and doing it again. I can't remember ever seeing positive camber before on anything with 4 wheels. Yes, I know the LC isn't a sports car or race car, but I'm quite surprised that the camber limit on the stock setup is zero, rather than -0.5 or something like that. I'd put that up there on your list. If the problem persists, maybe investigate front spring rate alternatives. I'd be curious to see the corner weights, too (but maybe that's overthinking it).
I'm with @WCDAVE - check your camber. I have been unhappy with the noticeable positive camber in the front of my LC since I took delivery back in early May, so much so that I'm thinking of getting an alignment done now to zero it out, before switching over to winter tires in November and doing it again. I can't remember ever seeing positive camber before on anything with 4 wheels. Yes, I know the LC isn't a sports car or race car, but I'm quite surprised that the camber limit on the stock setup is zero, rather than -0.5 or something like that. I'd put that up there on your list. If the problem persists, maybe investigate front spring rate alternatives. I'd be curious to see the corner weights, too (but maybe that's overthinking it).
- Thread starter
- #32
Thx for y’all responses. Sounds like most of you have experienced similar struggles like I did.
I’m thinking switching to a different suspension setup in the future. Also use hitch carrier instead of rooftop cargo box. Definitely a lot of variables at hands but definitely good to hear y’all experiences.
still learning what works best for the rig.
I’m thinking switching to a different suspension setup in the future. Also use hitch carrier instead of rooftop cargo box. Definitely a lot of variables at hands but definitely good to hear y’all experiences.
still learning what works best for the rig.
Moby
GOLD Star
My experience with KDSS on my GX and cruiser is that there is an slightly unnerving initial lean and then a "catch" that slows additional lean. As opposed to the large Whiteline anti-roll bars with custom fab'd adjustable links to keep the bars level for the lift on my FJ-62 or the 034 Motorsports anti-roll bars on my A4 project. These were smooth/progressive.
When I finished tuning the Radflo suspension on my GX a lot of the initial lean/catch behavior went away and my ride was improved on and off road. My GX ran from empty to stuffed with 2 rocket boxes up top, and regularly ran loaded across Mt. Hood and Steven's Pass (Cascades). I will be looking for similar improvements when I put Kings on my 200.
The catch here, as has been referenced above, is tuning the suspension. I'm not overjoyed to tear into a shock and revalve it but I'm more than willing to do so as well as swap springs to get exactly what I want. Although I will be running external bypasses on the rear with 2 compression tubes/3 zones unless Filthy really, really convinces me it is a bad idea for my uses. I don't think that will be the case though as I really like to fiddle with suspensions
You might get away with a compression adjuster on the resevoir but I'm not a fan of these. I "compromised" on my A4 project and put Bilstein PSS9s on, which could not be revalve and only a compression adjuster. I'll never go this route again myself, but it may work well enough for folks that want a simpler, albeit more limited, solution.
When I finished tuning the Radflo suspension on my GX a lot of the initial lean/catch behavior went away and my ride was improved on and off road. My GX ran from empty to stuffed with 2 rocket boxes up top, and regularly ran loaded across Mt. Hood and Steven's Pass (Cascades). I will be looking for similar improvements when I put Kings on my 200.
The catch here, as has been referenced above, is tuning the suspension. I'm not overjoyed to tear into a shock and revalve it but I'm more than willing to do so as well as swap springs to get exactly what I want. Although I will be running external bypasses on the rear with 2 compression tubes/3 zones unless Filthy really, really convinces me it is a bad idea for my uses. I don't think that will be the case though as I really like to fiddle with suspensions
You might get away with a compression adjuster on the resevoir but I'm not a fan of these. I "compromised" on my A4 project and put Bilstein PSS9s on, which could not be revalve and only a compression adjuster. I'll never go this route again myself, but it may work well enough for folks that want a simpler, albeit more limited, solution.
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Yep, this is the nature of a lifted LC and is consistent with my experience. About 80% of my LC driving is in the mountains here in CO, although not always fully loaded with family and gear. I have an OME lift (2702/2722, installed by Slee), sliders, and KO2s. I notice a big difference in handling when adding weight for a bike/camping/skiing trip, especially with anything on the roof.
If I didn't enjoy the added clearance the lift provides when offroad I would have preferred sticking with the stock suspension. The rear end sagged a lot more when loaded, but handled better in the twisties even with weight. I'm sure the right amount of suspension knowledge and $$$ could improve your results, but on some level it comes down to basic center-of-gravity physics and the impacts of increased weight and height.
I have an LX with 33” tires and sensor lift. I also have front and rear bumpers, sliders and drawers and I’m usually pretty loaded down. I drive Colorado passes constantly. I am always extremely thankful for the AHC system because I can switch it in to Sport+ which tightens the suspension. It makes an immediate and noticeable difference. I can actually drive faster without my wife hitting me. I also switched to E rated tires so I had less sidewall roll, not sure if that helped, but switching the drive mode to sport + is awesome
bloc
SILVER Star
Suspension geometry too. Stock ride height has the front LCAs close to flat. Any lift changes these angles and a lateral force will cause some level of up or downward force too. The rear panhard is a good example of this as well.. with the forces changing depending on the direction the vehicle is turning.
OEMs spend extraordinary amounts of money getting these things to handle like they do on the road.. plus with something like a LandCruiser, still be very capable off road. Then we go and mess with all the geometry and tuning…
