DOT pulled my Japanese import over today. Need some help (1 Viewer)

[Psilosin]

So how does one go about passing regulations on a Replicar or custom made kit car or street legal Dune buggy...that isn't OEM. How about the tailights in custom made flat bed truck beds...that isn't OEM

Technically no OEM parts are available for those now are they. Can't measure what the OEM turn lights should be on a one of a kind vehicle now can you. Chassis and bodies and windows are custom made one-offs; lights/lenses are generic off the shelf or pilfered from other vehicles. Obviously "Equivalent to OEM" in these cases are exactly that.

The way I see it if the worst happened and they took your car off the road, and you had an judge in court that sided with the darkside, just slap on whatever DOT lights meet the bill regardless of their size and shape and re-register it as a kit car. 2-tone LJ78's are replicas of FJ55's maybe....

 

[crushers]

Now Glen,
all hostility aside, i want all to read the below information that is taken from the "BC MOTOR VEHICLE ACT REGULATIONS."
i want you to note, where does it say "must have DOT or SAE" stamped on the glass. it says " the approved standards established by the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) and the applicable SAE standards" and "Table 1 of the Schedule to this Division" which also does not state that "DOT or SAE" must be stamped on the lenses. table 1 below is the SAE standards that one must comply with.


General lighting requirements
4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

(2) A vehicle on a highway must be equipped with lamps equivalent to those provided by the original manufacturer in accordance with the requirements that applied under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada), or a predecessor to that Act, at the time of vehicle manufacture.

(3) All lamps, lamp bulbs and reflectors required or permitted by this Division must comply with

(a) the approved standards established by the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) and the applicable SAE standards,

(b) the conditions of use described in this Division, and

(c) the requirements of Table 1 of the Schedule to this Division.

Turn signal devices
4.13 (1) A vehicle may be equipped and mounted with

(a) a lamp type turn signal system, or

(b) a semaphore turn signal device,

functionally equivalent to original equipment supplied by the vehicle manufacturer or of a type or make approved by the director.

(2) A lamp type turn signal system must

(a) have 2 lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle, that are capable of displaying flashes of white or amber light which are visible to the front,

(b) have 2 lamps, mounted on the rear of the vehicle, that are capable of displaying flashes of red or amber light which are visible to the rear,

(c) be visible on each side of the vehicle at a distance of 100 m in normal sunlight at an angle of 45° from the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, and

(d) include a tell-tale lamp which gives a clear indication that the system is activated.

Schedule

Table 1 — Standards for Approval of a Motor Vehicle Headlamp
and Other Illuminating Lamps Aiming Requirements

[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

Visual aim based in millimetres at 7.62 metres

Headlamps Beams to be
Used When Aimed or Inspected Area of High Intensity Zone
to be Aimed or Inspected Lateral Aim Lateral Inspection Tolerance Vertical Aim Vertical Inspection Tolerance
146 mm Type 1 sealed beam Upper Centre At V 150 mm left to
150 mm right of V 13 mm up from H 125 mm up to
100 mm down
from H
146 mm and 178 mm Type 2 sealed beam

Lower Left Edge

Top Edge 25 mm right of V 100 mm left to
150 mm right of V

60 mm up from H

175 mm up to
50 mm down from H
178 mm sealed beam not marked Type 2 Upper Centre At V 150 mm left to
150 mm right of V 13 mm up from H 125 mm up to
100 mm down
from H
European headlamps marked "E" and beam lamps marked "R" or "HR" Upper Centre At V 125 mm left to
125 mm right of V At H At H to 115 mm below
Low beam lamps marked "C" or "HC" Lower Junction of horizontal and sloped cut off
Top edge of horizontal cut off At V 125 mm left to
125 mm right of V

100 mm below H
75 mm below to
190 mm below H
Dual beam lamps marked "CR" or
"HCR" Lower and Upper Top edge of horizontal cut off

Centre




At V



125 mm left to
125 mm right of V 100 mm below H 75 mm below to
190 mm below H
Fog lamps symmetrical Centre

Top edge At V 150 mm left to
150 mm right of V

100 mm below H


At H or below

Fog lamps asymmetrical Left edge

Top edge 25 mm right of V 100 mm left to
100 mm right of V

60 mm above V

175 mm above to
50 mm below H
Auxiliary passing lamp Left edge

Top edge 25 mm right of V 100 mm left to
100 mm right of V

60 mm above H

175 mm below to
50 mm below H
Auxiliary driving lamp Centre At V 150 mm left to
150 mm
right of V 13 mm up from H 125 mm up to
100 mm
down from H
Motor vehicle minimum beam candela: Upper beam, 10 000; lower beam, 7 000.
Motorcycle minimum beam candela: Upper beam, 5 000; lower beam, 3 500.
This standard is based on S.A.E. standard–Lighting Inspection Code and recommended headlamp tolerances for E.C.E. lamps
supplied by the Road and Motor Vehicles Safety Section, Transport Canada.
Abbreviations: V=vertical centreline straight ahead of lamp centre. H=horizontal centreline at level of lamp centre.

 

[crushers]

as for fog lamps as driving lights:
no where does it say that the fog lamps must be DOT or SAE:
nor does it say non-DOT or SAE approved lights need to be covered (this is more for the rest of the viewers than you).
for driving lights the wording is below as well, once again no mention of DOT or SAE:
also note there is no special requirement for BC.



Fog lamps
4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be

(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and

(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.

(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.


Daytime running lamps
4.08 A motor vehicle may be equipped with daytime running lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle at a height of not less than 30 cm and not more than 2.11 m, that comply with the requirements of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada).



Auxiliary driving lamps
4.09 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 auxiliary driving lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle at a height of not less than 40 cm and not more than 1.06 m, that are capable of displaying only white light.

(2) An auxiliary driving lamp must be directed so that the high intensity portion of the beam is, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, at least 12 cm below the height of the lamp and, at a distance of 25 m from the lamp, not higher than 1.06 m from the road surface.

(3) An auxiliary driving lamp must operate so that it is illuminated only when the upper beam of a multiple beam headlamp is illuminated.

 

[Mermaid.5]

You guys are hard work!!

I thought I already said it but I'll try again.

I'm glad you posted Div 4 MVAR, especially General Requirements. Div 4.02 (3) (a) which clearly states that lamps, bulbs etc must meet SAE standards. Of cousre once they do meet the standards they are marked, that's how you tell. I'm sure you'll say "But it doesn't say they have to be marked", fair enough. That is why we have the other part of the regulation which is the Inspection Manual.

In it it states,

Quote;

"All lamps must comply with designated requirements. Lenses and bulbs must meert OEM standards.

Reject if:

Any lamp fails to illuminate,
is missing,
broken,
cracked,
insecurely mounted,
has moisture visible in interior,
DOES NOT MEET CMVSS, DOT OR SAE STANDARDS AND BE SO LABELED,
25% or more of LED's of any one lamp assembly are non functional,
or does not meet requirements set out below.

It then gets into more detail.

 

[Mermaid.5]

As for fog lights and the rest of any lamps,

They also must meet Div 4 General requirements, and bear an SAE or DOT marking as well as there type. Fog lamps are designated "F" on the lens and driving lamps have "Y" . Of course once again the inspection anual comes into play if DIV 4 doesn't satisfy.

Other than a docking/spot lamp, fog and driving lamps are the only other lamps approved for use so all other lamps are considered Off Road lamps (also covered in div 4) and they must be covered at all times on the road.

 

[smcruisin]

Gawd! (in my best Napoloeon Dynamite voice) ;p

Ha ,
It's a good thing to 'quench' this thread with a little humour once and a while (to keep things from getting too hot ).



...I've been following, and feel it's my turn to pipe in. I've got some questions to ask, some opinions to offer, some 'interpretations' to disagree with, etc., etc.....


Mermaid.5, thanks for being here. This type of discourse/discussion clears up many issues (however, it also illustrates some of the problems with current inspection "STANDARDS", doesn't it?!?!?)

Also, a Peace Officer (which we are) can stop ANY vehicle being operated at any time on the road to check for compliance with the Act and Regs. This can include mechanical checks, and licensing/insurance issues even if there are no apparent defects visible.

Could you attach the section of law/regulation that states this (in it's legal wording). Not a general link like"www.BC-MVA.com" (as an example), but a 'cut & paste' of the specific paragraph (or two/three). I'm genuinely curious (maybe my 'understanding' of the law is WAY OFF, but somehow I don't think it's that far off )

The statement you made worries me, as I seem to recall phrases like, "Just Cause", "Beyond Reasonable Doubt", etc.

……I'm aware that you are not the police, and the 'rules' that dictate how each branch of the law conducts itself isn't necessarily the same. I'm aware that dealings with the police can 'sometimes' (maybe a few cases -- not the majority) go beyond their jurisdiction/the law ( I'm not trying to turn this into an anti-Police rant, I just want to illustrate a point ).

........BUT AT LEAST THERE EXISTS A DEDICATED AVENUE TO APPEAL THESE "INTERPRETATIONS" OF THE LAW. (;p still smiling -- not yelling, I'm just trying to emphasize, and logically state the frustration many on this board have with the prospects of 'failing' on a technicality, and have no recourse



I'd like to re-emphasise that though you're an 'officer' of the system, I'm debating "the system", and I thank-you for VOLUNTEERING your time to take part here.

I look foreward to your thoughts on my thoughts (...that were based on your thought originally......)

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Psilosin]

MOTOR VEHICLE ACT REGULATIONS — Continued
B.C. Reg. 26/58

General lighting requirements

4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.
(2) A vehicle on a highway must be equipped with lamps equivalent to those provided by the original manufacturer in accordance with the requirements that applied under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada), or a predecessor to that Act, at the time of vehicle manufacture.
(3) All lamps, lamp bulbs and reflectors required or permitted by this Division must comply with
(a) the approved standards established by the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) and the applicable SAE standards,
(b) the conditions of use described in this Division, and
(c) the requirements of Table 1 of the Schedule to this Division.
(4) The function of 2 or more lamps or reflectors may be combined if each function meets the following requirements:
(a) no turn signal lamp may be combined optically with a stop lamp unless the stop lamp is extinguished when the turn signal is flashing;
(b) a clearance lamp must not be combined optically with a tail-lamp or identification lamp.
(5)The director may exempt vehicles or classes of vehicles from the requirements of this section.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2; am. B.C. Reg. 135/2003, s. 1.]


Look at (5)...seems that common sense can prevail...the director just has to like you...hmmm anyone know if the director would fancy a nice 2002 LaFrenz Merlot???

 

[Psilosin]

Reflective devices

4.21 (1) A vehicle must be equipped with at least one red reflector at the rear of the vehicle, either separate or incorporated into a tail lamp, that is mounted at a height of not less than 38 cm and not more than 1.83 m.

This seems to answer Wayne's question regarding adding a reflector to the tail light cluster in the event its missing...the answer is YES.

 

[crushers]

You guys are hard work!!

I thought I already said it but I'll try again.

I'm glad you posted Div 4 MVAR, especially General Requirements. Div 4.02 (3) (a) which clearly states that lamps, bulbs etc must meet SAE standards. Of cousre once they do meet the standards they are marked, that's how you tell. I'm sure you'll say "But it doesn't say they have to be marked", fair enough. That is why we have the other part of the regulation which is the Inspection Manual.

In it it states,

Quote;

"All lamps must comply with designated requirements. Lenses and bulbs must meert OEM standards.

Reject if:

Any lamp fails to illuminate,
is missing,
broken,
cracked,
insecurely mounted,
has moisture visible in interior,
DOES NOT MEET CMVSS, DOT OR SAE STANDARDS AND BE SO LABELED,
25% or more of LED's of any one lamp assembly are non functional,
or does not meet requirements set out below.

It then gets into more detail.

what i find is very interesting is the inspection manual is circumveting both the Canadian importation laws and regulations AND the "BC MOTOR VEHICLE ACT REGULATIONS". no where does it say DOT/SAE is mandatory except in this mythological "inspection manual" .
if you check the links below you will find the names, number, positions and the latest bulletin that was issued from Victoria.
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/recruitment/Region-2_Org_Charts/Okanagan-Shuswap_District.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/recruitment/Region-2_Org_Charts/Rocky_Mountain_Compliance.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_inspections/PDF/MVI_Phone_List.pdf

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_inspections/PDF/Bulletin_02-06_Imported_Vehicles.pdf

this is the main reason for the confusion. in the bulletin it states:
Lamps,kens,bulbs and reflex reflectors, not meeting SAE,DOT standards AND MARKED AS SUCH.
this capitalized section was added by Greg Gilks in Victoria and is not based on the motor vehicle act. as it also says in the bulletin:
"MUST meet all applicable inspection criteria listed in the Vehicle Inspection Manual(inspections standards(safety and repair)regulation) before issuing a certificate of approval." which Greg has now circumvented by adding the above words.
this is in line with the decision to stream line inspections decided on march 2005:
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/cvse/vehicle_inspections/PDF/dif_communique.pdf

 

[crushers]

Also, in regards to my above post (#56).

From what I understand there is some people in Victoria this week determining how the law is to be read and enforced in BC. Whether we do have to conform or don't.

Cheers,
Nick

so what was the outcome of this meeting Nick?

 

[crushers]

mermaid.5,
your participation to this thread is greatly appreciated and i now realise what you were trying to say, your hands are tied by the corrupted "manual". you have a job to do and rules to do it by.
it is not you we have a problem with, it is Greg and HIS circumventing of the laws and rulings of both the Canadian Importation laws and the BC regulations.
thank you
cheers and peace

 

[snowking]

Mermaid.5,

I am one of those people with a Land Cruiser that was never sold in Canada, so there's no way I can get ahold of DOT/SAE lenses for my vehicle.

How about something like this? Can I put a set of these puppies on the back of my truck and be okay?

Assuming they're DOT approved, of course. These are the lights put on flat deck trucks, etc.

Could I add a set of these and be legal? Please advise.

Hey Robin where do you get those from ????

 

[lshobie]

Greg is the Ass. Director of the Commercial Inspection Division, funny he is interfering in the light vehicle department. It could be part of his capacity though - unless he just has a hate on for RHD imports.

This is him:

http://www.ccmta.ca/english/standingcommittees/standingcommittees-regulatoryaffairs.html

 

[crushers]

Hey Robin where do you get those from ????

i have a literal crate of DOT approved and stamped Toyota tail light lenses that you could cut into your bumper to make it BC legal...

 

[nickw]

Wow, alot happend on this thread in the last half a day.
I think I better read it over acouple of times.

 

[nickw]

so what was the outcome of this meeting Nick?

Not sure yet. I will try and find out.

 

[Mermaid.5]

Inspections

217 (1) For the purposes of section 216, the director may
(a) authorize persons to inspect vehicles,
(b) designate facilities operated by the government or a municipality or other person as facilities for different classes of inspections, and
(c) on conditions the Lieutenant Governor in Council requires, exempt a vehicle from inspection.
(2) For the purposes of section 216, the minister may prescribe standards of safety, emissions and repair for different classes of vehicles.
(3) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may provide by regulation that
(a) contravention of a regulation made under section 216 (1) (a) or a standard prescribed by the minister under subsection (2) of this section or under section 218 constitutes an offence, and
(b) a person who commits an offence under paragraph (a) is liable to a penalty not greater than the penalties provided under the Offence Act.

217 (2) is where the Minister may prescribe Standards.

On the front of the inspection manual it states;

"BC Regulation 103/2002 as a mended

Regulations of the Minister Inspection Standards (Safety and Repair) Rergulations

The Standards of Safety and Repair set out in this schedule are prescribed as the standards of safety and repair referred to in section 217 (2) of the Motor vehicle Act. "

So with thaty being said, the inspection manual is part of legislation, specifically the MVA. With that being said how can you call it "mythological."

Also how in thw world can it "circumvent" Canadian Impotation Laws, when they don't apply to vehicles older than 15 years old. Hello ,is this thing on.

This is starting to get very tiring.

As far as MR.Gilks adding "AND MARKED AS SUCH", and not being in legislation, holy hell man, have you not read my earlier post that shows where it does say that in legislation???

I must be talking to myself??

This is not a conspiracy theory. Like I said in one of my earlier posts (which I'm sure wasn't read) my 66 Chev has the markings on the lenses and the glass. YOU HAD TO COMPLY WITH THIS IN 1966. IT IS NOT NEW.

 

[Mermaid.5]

Greg is the Ass. Director of the Commercial Inspection Division, funny he is interfering in the light vehicle department. It could be part of his capacity though - unless he just has a hate on for RHD imports.

This is him:

http://www.ccmta.ca/english/standingcommittees/standingcommittees-regulatoryaffairs.html

Once again, WOW.

Nobody is interfering with anything. These rules have been around for a long , long time. ( back to my 66 having the markings)

Nothing has changed.

I don't understand all the "their out to get us attitudes". The laws that were in place WAY before any of these imports came are being enforced. That's it.

 

[Mermaid.5]

mermaid.5,
your participation to this thread is greatly appreciated and i now realise what you were trying to say, your hands are tied by the corrupted "manual". you have a job to do and rules to do it by.
it is not you we have a problem with, it is Greg and HIS circumventing of the laws and rulings of both the Canadian Importation laws and the BC regulations.
thank you
cheers and peace

Once again, how is anyone "circumventing " anything.

Once again, quit it with the "Canadian Impotation Laws" bit. THEY DON"T APPLY TO THESE VEHICLES.

And as I have already stated What is being enforced is the MVA and the MVAR, Bc regulations.

How again is the inspection manual corrupt???

 

[Mermaid.5]

Reflective devices

4.21 (1) A vehicle must be equipped with at least one red reflector at the rear of the vehicle, either separate or incorporated into a tail lamp, that is mounted at a height of not less than 38 cm and not more than 1.83 m.

This seems to answer Wayne's question regarding adding a reflector to the tail light cluster in the event its missing...the answer is YES.

Once again, you should re-read my previous posts. Would a round reflector be Equivalent to what was supplied originally??

Also, once again, not only are we dealing with what is in Div4 we are also dealing with in addition, the inspection manual.