Do 80's brake SUCK?!

[jamisobe]

My truck still stops on a dime. I recently traded out Powerstop rotors (after 130K miles) and Hawk HPS to Cryo'd Powerslots with Hawk HPS. Calibers were replaced a couple of years ago and I only run Dot 4 fluid.

I hated my brakes when I first got the truck. The stock pads wear quickly and would fade under hard braking. I don't think the OEM 80 pads imprint like most other OEM pads on other vehicles, but there are some rather advanced materials available on high performance after market pads that will not imprint and perform much better.

 

[mainemike]

The stock brakes work fine. You may to replace every single part with new, if you want the brakes to work as well as new, but the system certainly can work fine. It's a damn heavy truck to stop on a dime, but as the braking distance chart shows, it has a standard stopping distance comparatively. I don't think slotted rotors or fancy pads adds up to squat on these trucks, OEM parts will work perfectly well if not better.

Remember that a visual inspection of the brakes is not the same as pulling calipers and checking for seized pistons and glazed pads. A full flush of the brake fluid never hurts. I think it gets back to the basics of baselining the entire system. I've replaced a leaking LSPV, replaced the lines with Slee (although OEM is fine too) replaced all calipers, pads and rotors. Not all at once, but over the years. Today the brakes work as well as they did when it was new.

But new was 1996 technology...

 

[jamisobe]

It's a damn heavy truck to stop on a dime, but as the braking distance chart shows, it has a standard stopping distance comparatively. I don't think slotted rotors or fancy pads adds up to squat on these trucks, OEM parts will work perfectly well if not better.

But new was 1996 technology...

And so starts the "I think".

Hawk pads or their fleet equivilents are used on race cars and police cars throughout the country. Guess they just use them cause of the cool name??

Here is an article on the performance of cryo'd rotors for police fleet consumption. Cryo'd rotors aren't for everyone. Grandma is fine with OEM and so apparently is mainemike. haha

Here is a technical article that relates to pad imprinting on the street and in racing. Race cars usually use 100% abrasive pads so imprinting is much less of a problem as long as bedding is done correctly. With most OEM pads it does not matter how you bed your pads you will experience imprinting eventually.

So usually when someone thinks their rotors are warped it is imprint residue built up. Not only does this cause judder, but it also makes it harder for you brakes to stop you quick.

When I was recently researching cryo'd rotors I spoke with this guy who runs this site in California. He is a Boeing engineer that makes croy'd rotors for Nissan and Rovers mostly as a side business. He said that he has one customer who drives a big Chevy dually pulling a load from north Canada to South California often. He has 600K miles on one set of his cryo'd rotors. I ultimately bought Frozen Rotor powerslots after I made sure they used the same process. They are all 3-4 times more expensive than OEM, but you know when having high performance brakes is important.

Here is a review complete with test results of a crossdrilled rotor with metal street pads. Though the test does not use cryo'd rotors or Hawk pads, it does demonstarte that high performance brakes to outperform OEM brakes on a Trooper. This would prove to be the case across the board on most production vehicles except for higher end performance cars that already use the technology.

Bottomline, if you drive like a little girl (or you just avoid using the skinny pedal as a matter of consistent habit) and you don't mind replacing pads every 10-15K miles then perfectly working OEM brakes will serve the purpose for you.

If you know you need high performace brakes then go buy them. They work.

 

[jonheld]

I find these articles to be interesting, but out of context for my personal use. For example, I don't take my 21 year old Land Cruiser with a 4" lift and larger than stock street tires to the track as often as I used to. Stopping my 6000+ pound truck from 160 MPH is less of a concern than it used to be.

Cross drilled and slotted rotors will load up with debris when driving off road as I do quite often, so that is also not a priority for me.

While the articles do give good information, alot of it is really impractical to the way these trucks are driven. Intended use has to be considered before makng blanket and, quite frankly, arrogant statements like you made.

 

[harrydunn]

I'm quite pleased with the way my '93 stops. I'm running 100-series pads but I've been told they just last longer, not that they necessarily increase braking performance. I'm running OEM Toyota rotors upfront but went with cheapo rotors on the rear (they can't be that bad, right? ) and am paying the price for that. They started suddering within a few months. I may give NAPA premium rear rotors a try if not OEM. She stops immensely better than my '72 GMC but not quite as well as my '00 Vette. Just my .02.

 

[chukardog]

123 ft for the POS FJ cruiser, looks like oit does one thing well.

 

[Stevesnj]

Just got some zinc coated slotted rotors and pads from brakeperformance.com, also had my calipers sanblasted to prep for paint, new hardware and caliper bolts and gonna flush the entire system. Fronts are next.

 

[Dini]

All I was saying is that my '93 stops fine for weighing what it does, and being what it is. It's not a Lamborghini, and I don't expect it to be. It doesn't stop as well as my '98 Tacoma, but then again my Tacoma is lighter and has brake modifications done to it. I run the Tundra 231's up front on EBC dimpled/slotted rotors with EBC Yellow Stuff pads, and stock Tacoma front brakes on the rear via Ruff Stuff adapters. Rears are also EBC dimpled and slotted rotors with EBC Green Stuff pads. It stops well. Drive it like you stole it=warped rotors. My '93 LC has some brake pulse going on right now. Or maybe it has some of that nuclear exoatmospheric batrachophagous biphlastiatic build up like someone else was saying, I didn't have "the lab" test my brakes. They were at lunch at the time.

 

[Trapper50cal]

I went with Powerstop rotors (drilled and slotted), braided lines and greenstuff pads...stops great.

 

[86tuning]

In some instances aftermarket PERFORMANCE brake pads can improve stopping distances. Usually in multiple stopping cases or hard use. Towing a trailer down several mountain passes, etc. For general street and trail use stock pads will work fine.

The problem is that it's hard to specify what actually is a performance brake pad when many aftermarket retailers will sell sub standard parts.

I'd suggest genuine toyota pads, or an actual premium pad like Porterfield, Hawk, or Performance Friction, etc.

/2cents/

 

[mainemike]

jamisobe - I didn't mean it personally, sorry if it came off that way. Yes, there are many brake upgrades available and by all means run whatever you want. My comment was not to slander your choice of the best rotors and pads ever made, but rather to say most 'performance slotted rotors and racing pads' are marketing hype and engineering junk. I'm continually impressed with OEM parts for these trucks in most categories, and I feel it is the best way to go, performance vs cost ratio, for how I drive my Cruiser. I get about 30-40k out of my pads and a bit more on rotors, depending on what conditions the truck is used in. Mud and sand miles will cut down on longevity, and I see a lot of those doing backwoods recon for my work. I rarely tow anything heavy, and I never forget I'm in a 6000 truck.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you never met my grandma, and take that as a compliment. She had a penchant for fast cars, gorgeous boats and light airplanes, all traits I proudly inherited.

 

[jamisobe]

I hear you buddy. The choices I made for brakes are not the only choice and I did not mean to imply that if that's how it sounded. OEM brakes are very good for standard use (especially if you understand imprinting can easily be fixed) which is what many vehicles see. If they work to your satisfaction then you are all set. However, there are replacement parts that exist for many vehicles intended to upgrade or totally replace OEM parts for better performance when that is the specification. I don't disagree that some after market stuff is complete junk which is why a forum like this can be helpful in sorting out the set up that works best for each individual.

What grinds me are the OEMers who think there is never any reason to go with anything other than OEM. Course they're running on aftermarket suspensions. So for me OEM wasn't cutting it and I found tried and tested products that do even better than one might think. That's all I was trying to share. I wasn't trying to be arrogant like oh I got the best stuff. Just sharing some product ideas that could help someone like the OP who is looking for brakes that perform better than OEM.

I don't plan on adding to the discussions on here anymore. They turn to crap too easily for no reason and then you never know if the mod is gonna get it or just completely throw fairness off the freakin' roof top.

 

[Ebag333]

I hear you buddy. The choices I made for brakes are not the only choice and I did not mean to imply that if that's how it sounded. OEM brakes are very good for standard use (especially if you understand imprinting can easily be fixed) which is what many vehicles see. If they work to your satisfaction then you are all set. However, there are replacement parts that exist for many vehicles intended to upgrade or totally replace OEM parts for better performance when that is the specification. I don't disagree that some after market stuff is complete junk which is why a forum like this can be helpful in sorting out the set up that works best for each individual.

What grinds me are the OEMers who think there is never any reason to go with anything other than OEM. Course they're running on aftermarket suspensions. So for me OEM wasn't cutting it and I found tried and tested products that do even better than one might think. That's all I was trying to share. I wasn't trying to be arrogant like oh I got the best stuff. Just sharing some product ideas that could help someone like the OP who is looking for brakes that perform better than OEM.

Lets keep something in mind here. If you can lock up the tires--and you easily can with OEM brakes--then improving the calipers/rotors/pads/etc won't help any.

They don't improve it, because you can't stop the wheels from spinning any better than not spinning at all.


If you look at the braking distances statistics compiled by Tools R Us, the 80 (with disk brakes, granted), will stop just as fast as most sedans which have a fraction of the weight.

The reason is, braking distance isn't limited by the rotors, calipers, or pads. You can improve those all you want, it won't help you stop any faster (though it may help with other things, such as brake fade or how long the components last, though both those aren't much of an issue either).

The limiting factor is the coefficient of friction between the tires and road. So if you want to stop faster...change your tires, not your pads or rotors.


There's nothing wrong with using performance parts. They just don't really improve anything over OEM (or equivalent) components. Heck, people use cheap components and still stop just as quick....because the cheap components will lock up the tires just as well as the OEM or performance parts (though they might not last as long or have problems with brake fade).

 

[jamisobe]

Lets keep something in mind here. If you can lock up the tires--and you easily can with OEM brakes--then improving the calipers/rotors/pads/etc won't help any.

They don't improve it, because you can't stop the wheels from spinning any better than not spinning at all.


If you look at the braking distances statistics compiled by Tools R Us, the 80 (with disk brakes, granted), will stop just as fast as most sedans which have a fraction of the weight.

The reason is, braking distance isn't limited by the rotors, calipers, or pads. You can improve those all you want, it won't help you stop any faster (though it may help with other things, such as brake fade or how long the components last, though both those aren't much of an issue either).

The limiting factor is the coefficient of friction between the tires and road. So if you want to stop faster...change your tires, not your pads or rotors.


There's nothing wrong with using performance parts. They just don't really improve anything over OEM (or equivalent) components. Heck, people use cheap components and still stop just as quick....because the cheap components will lock up the tires just as well as the OEM or performance parts (though they might not last as long or have problems with brake fade).

Cheap can be good. I understand the philosophy and agree to a point. Doesn't change the fact that I was burning through pads every 10K miles and getting fade under rapid or heavy braking situations before I switched 130K miles ago. The Hawk pads go 25K miles and I never get fade under repeated heavy braking. Even if that was the only benefit and braking was the same it is worth it to me. Now, I also think the braking is considerably better. I've never had an issue skidding with OEM or the really good stuff and my ABS engages rarely. So I have to disagree with you as well. Please pardon my shameless arrogance. Any other OEMers want to chime in?

 

[mainemike]

Comparing brake feel and brake life over the internet is too abstract to be seriously comparable, it's a general concept at best. Our trucks are built differently with a variety of tire brands and sizes, lifts, driving habits and geography. When I lived in Colorado and Arizona and drove in the mountains I would experience brake fade. In Maine and Quebec that isn't an issue. To say a rotor or pad lasts xxx miles is also abstract - I can rack up hwy miles on cross country trips and rarely touch my brakes. Or I can spend three days on trail and completely stress the system. If you were averaging 10k on a set of OEM brake pads while I get 35k out of the same pad we may have a radically different approach to using the wide pedal. I get 10k more life out of OEM pads than you are seeing with Hawk pads, and I'm not experiencing any fade. Maybe you drive fast on the street and get in situations where you need to grab a lot of brake, or tow heavy loads down steep grades often, or play at Pismo or wheel in Oregon thru abrasive lava dust - I have no idea why OEM pads only last you 10k miles and fade easily. The inter-relationships of an entire brake/suspension/tire system are too complex to target any one part. This forum serves to provide us all with comparable stories and experiences in 80 series trucks, but no-one can say for certain what is better or best for the 80 series as a whole. But, back to the OP, I don't think the stock brakes suck. I do agree there is always room for improvement, and pretty much anything mechanical can be improved with enough time and money if you are so inclined.

 

[jamisobe]

Comparing brake feel and brake life over the internet is too abstract to be seriously comparable, it's a general concept at best. Our trucks are built differently with a variety of tire brands and sizes, lifts, driving habits and geography. When I lived in Colorado and Arizona and drove in the mountains I would experience brake fade. In Maine and Quebec that isn't an issue. To say a rotor or pad lasts xxx miles is also abstract - I can rack up hwy miles on cross country trips and rarely touch my brakes. Or I can spend three days on trail and completely stress the system. If you were averaging 10k on a set of OEM brake pads while I get 35k out of the same pad we may have a radically different approach to using the wide pedal. I get 10k more life out of OEM pads than you are seeing with Hawk pads, and I'm not experiencing any fade. Maybe you drive fast on the street and get in situations where you need to grab a lot of brake, or tow heavy loads down steep grades often, or play at Pismo or wheel in Oregon thru abrasive lava dust - I have no idea why OEM pads only last you 10k miles and fade easily. The inter-relationships of an entire brake/suspension/tire system are too complex to target any one part. This forum serves to provide us all with comparable stories and experiences in 80 series trucks, but no-one can say for certain what is better or best for the 80 series as a whole. But, back to the OP, I don't think the stock brakes suck. I do agree there is always room for improvement, and pretty much anything mechanical can be improved with enough time and money if you are so inclined.

I agree with what you say here 100%.

 

[IdahoDoug]

80s have great brakes. 80s that are 20 years old and have poorly maintained components will have sucky brakes. Have your brake system competently checked out.

DougM

 

[yotakrawler]

I would be interested to see if an adaptor like this could be made to work for land cruiser axles.

Front Range Off-Road Fabrication

I am not sure if ifs mini truck hubs would work with 80 spindle as far as bearings go... but I did this on my mini truck axle and it will allow me to run 2003 to 2006 tundra rotors and calipers which I would assume would be the same as the 100 series.

Also makes rotor and birfield changes really easy and clean as you don't have to mess with bearings.

 

[Dini]

I would be interested to see if an adaptor like this could be made to work for land cruiser axles.

Front Range Off-Road Fabrication

I am not sure if ifs mini truck hubs would work with 80 spindle as far as bearings go... but I did this on my mini truck axle and it will allow me to run 2003 to 2006 tundra rotors and calipers which I would assume would be the same as the 100 series.

Also makes rotor and birfield changes really easy and clean as you don't have to mess with bearings.

You wouldn't want to run Tacoma brakes (they are smaller) on your 80, but has anyone done a side by side comparison of the 80 vs Tundra (231) brakes? I did the Tundra's on my Taco and it's a great upgrade.


On a side note, I don't think I've ever seen a mod so involved in any thread. Whats the deal nuclearlemon? Everyone here is very mellow (even when pissed) compared to other forums.

 

[94SRUNNER]

Like several have said, when properly maintained the stock brakes work fantastic for such a large rig. I am always very satisfied with mine. Although, this thread reminds me, I need to bleed them and flush the old fluid.