Diagnosing no crank

[jatree]

Hey all - had a no crank Thursday morning and starting this thread to gather my thoughts, so I can look into it tonight or Saturday morning.

1. Truck has been running fine and is generally in good shape.
2. Replaced the battery and fusible links 3-4 months ago and done about 1500 miles since then
3. Before Thanksgiving, I was driving and noticed my headlights flicker and the Battery Gauge go down temporarily. Eventually it came back and while driving the gauge was always between half and 18V. (I also had one strange incident where something started buzzing while the turn signal was on...turning it off made that go away. Never heard that before in any car.) A second strange incident this summer was finding insulation in my glove box which made me concerned for wiring. But everything I could see looked normal, and I must have caught it quickly or my dryer sheet defense system has worked wonders since it never happened again.
4. In any case, I drove 3-4 more times since the electrical flicker and all seemed normal until I tried to start on Thursday morn - everything is normal (lights on dash and beep) but it just goes black when I attempt to start. No dome light, keyless entry not working. A few min later, the dome light weakly returned. I locked manually and had to leave.
5. Starter was replaced 5 years/20k miles ago and Alternator is original (to my knowledge), I bought new brushes but never replaced. Battery (from Interstate store) is pretty new so hope I didn't ruin it by letting it get too low.

I've been at work and haven't popped the hood yet. My uneducated guess is I had an alternator issue and reserve capacity on this nearly new battery helped me out on subsequent starts. Any recommended order of operations for ruling things out when I diagnose?

Thanks for reading!

 

[Devils Paw 80]

Insulation in your glove box? Sounds like rodents have chewed wires somewhere and you have a frayed connection.

 

[Old Nick]

Hey all - had a no start Thursday morning and starting this thread to gather my thoughts, so I can look into it tonight or Saturday morning.

1. Truck has been running fine and is generally in good shape.
2. Replaced the battery and fusible links 3-4 months ago and done about 1500 miles since then
3. Before Thanksgiving, I was driving and noticed my headlights flicker and the Battery Gauge go down temporarily. Eventually it came back and while driving the gauge was always between half and 18V. (I also had one strange incident where something started buzzing while the turn signal was on...turning it off made that go away. Never heard that before in any car.) A second strange incident this summer was finding insulation in my glove box which made me concerned for wiring. But everything I could see looked normal, and I must have caught it quickly or my dryer sheet defense system has worked wonders since it never happened again.
4. In any case, I drove 3-4 more times since the electrical flicker and all seemed normal until I tried to start on Thursday morn - everything is normal (lights on dash and beep) but it just goes black when I attempt to start. No dome light, keyless entry not working. A few min later, the dome light weakly returned. I locked manually and had to leave.
5. Starter was replaced 5 years/20k miles ago and Alternator is original (to my knowledge), I bought new brushes but never replaced. Battery (from Interstate store) is pretty new so hope I didn't ruin it by letting it get too low.

I've been at work and haven't popped the hood yet. My uneducated guess is I had an alternator issue and reserve capacity on this nearly new battery helped me out on subsequent starts. Any recommended order of operations for ruling things out when I diagnose?

Thanks for reading!

Could very well be your alternator. Maybe this weekend, you can have it checked out, or check it yourself.

I've been researching and chatting here and plan to delete the alarm/immobilizer... as that is a common cause of no starts. And, I've had the no start issue recently as well.

If you are interesting in doing that, here is a thread that provides a step by step: 93 Alarm removal (step by step w/pics) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/93-alarm-removal-step-by-step-w-pics.714961/page-3

Others who are more versed in things-80 will chime in, I'm sure.

Good luck.

 

[Brindleboxer]

@jatree, try this link out as it has a process for checking a no start issue. Emergency Troubleshooting Procedures - FAQ Item (Recommend Keeping Copy in Truck) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/emergency-troubleshooting-procedures-faq-item-recommend-keeping-copy-in-truck.115816/

Once you go through the steps, you can post of what works and what doesn't. This will also narrow the responses from the masses as they will know what has been done.

 

[ZackR]

Grab a multimeter and see what the battery voltage is. My guess is that there's an issue with the charging system and the battery is currently too low to crank over the engine.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yep, test battery first.

tried to start my 80 yesterday in near freezing temps, it's been sitting untouched 4weeks or so. Battery was completely dead. So dead i couldn't start it by jumping it from my work truck with the revs up. Dash lights came on, but not so much as a click from the starter.

1hour with battery charger on it, it fired up fine.
Cold weather is hard on an unused battery, and hard on them when starting. Double whammy

 

[jpw2]

Agree test battery first, no battery = no anything.

Sounds like connection or battery issue

You need a decent voltmeter.

12.4 volts key off is a conservative minimum.

10.3 volts while cranking (or attempting to crank) is better for keeping engine computer awake than the traditional 9.6 volt minimum.

Voltages good? Check for similar voltages at f-links, fuses and starter terminals.

If Battery is low try to find a local mom and pop type repair shop, ask them to change/ test your battery($15-30??).

look for the gray hairs or dirtiest , if you go in with an attitude of "I'm trying to learn and save the buck" you likely to get better response.

Then ask "while it's in the charger do you have a core battery in half way decent shape i can barrow to test my truck more?" (most of us have at least a few decent cores around).

FYI -

most of the time NO START refers to cranks / spins over just fine but won't fire up and run.

NO CRANK means won't spin when turning key, just clicks or you get nothing.

HTH

J

 

[jatree]

Thanks for the responses and oops, I should have made the title "No Crank" since I'm getting nothing - not even start up lights anymore.

I tested the battery with a multimeter and am reading 12.6V...I'm thinking next step will be checking connections and fuses.

Thank you @Brindleboxer for linking the procedure as I haven't tested fuses before. I did do new fusible links with new battery a few months ago but kept the old one so may try swapping that as well.

Insulation in your glove box? Sounds like rodents have chewed wires somewhere and you have a frayed connection.

This is my worst fear! This is my daily and I found that way back in July. It was only a small amount, clean (no smell) so think it was recent.

@jatree, try this link out as it has a process for checking a no start issue. Emergency Troubleshooting Procedures - FAQ Item (Recommend Keeping Copy in Truck) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/emergency-troubleshooting-procedures-faq-item-recommend-keeping-copy-in-truck.115816/

Once you go through the steps, you can post of what works and what doesn't. This will also narrow the responses from the masses as they will know what has been done.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

This is my worst fear! This is my daily and I found that way back in July. It was only a small amount, clean (no smell) so think it was recent.

So if it's a daily driver, never left to sit for a period of time, the chances of this being the problem are smaller.

Many years ago I had a rat infestation in my Nissan truck that was left sitting for several months in Hawaii. The critters chewed up the air cleaner and stuffed it down throttle body to make a nest. They also chewed and severed a couple wires, causing a no start situation. Fortunately I was able to get it all cleaned up and the truck is running well today. I fashioned a metal wire grid just inside the air intake so rats couldn't crawl in there anymore.

 

[jatree]

Nice wet and stormy day for some driveway fixin. Anywho after reading 12.6V, I decided to remove the battery cables and reinstall my trickle charger leads just in case I'd need them. I brushed the terminals, reconnected everything, and gave it a crank - it works.

I'm working solo so hooked up my multimeter + leads to see the voltage drop when I start - it never dropped below 11V for consecutive starts (maybe 10.5V - hard to see in the rain). Should I still get the battery load tested? Battery shop is a drive and I'll need to get a ride (or I guess could take the truck), but feeling good to hear that familiar inline 6 running again.

 

[Malleus]

If you have no MIL (the check engine light) on the dash when the key is ON, but before the engine is started, the EFI main circuit isn't energized. The engine will not start, and the starter will not turn over, unless this circuit is live.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I'm working solo so hooked up my multimeter + leads to see the voltage drop when I start - it never dropped below 11V for consecutive starts (maybe 10.5V

Battery seems ok based on that ^^

Are battery terminals and lead connections clean? Or corroded/ patina'd

Also check main ground connections between battery and engine, battery and frame/body.

 

[Malleus]

Rather than fall down the rabbit hole of "how many things can it be?", you need to get a copy of the EWD and service manual, if you don't already have them, and if you don't, they're in the Resources Forum, you can download them for free.

If/once you do, as was recommended above, check your battery voltage, and the charge state, if you can. Flickering lights generally means the voltage regultor is failing, unless there's a wiring problem; assume there isn't and check the easy stuff first. Once you have verified that you hav a fully charged battery (a battery charger is a good to have tool), you need to proceed to the wiring validation.

You'll need to follow the EFI main circuit from the battery to the starter and ECM, behind the glovebox.

 

[Malleus]

 

[Malleus]

 

[Malleus]

 

[Malleus]

Posts #14 thru #16 are all that is needed to get the starter to move. Don't waste any time with anything else until you get this to happen. Once it does, either the engine will start, or you can move on to bigger and better things.

 

[jatree]

Battery seems ok based on that ^^

Are battery terminals and lead connections clean? Or corroded/ patina'd

Also check main ground connections between battery and engine, battery and frame/body.

The battery terminals weren't corroded at all...leads actually looked fine too. I could rotate the Positive if I put a little force which is what prompted me to try and reconnect. I also forgot to post the multimeter read 14.x Volts while running so perhaps alternator is ok.

If you have no MIL (the check engine light) on the dash when the key is ON, but before the engine is started, the EFI main circuit isn't energized. The engine will not start, and the starter will not turn over, unless this circuit is live.

I have verified that the check engine light comes on and now I'm able to get it running though I'm grateful for the diagrams above. Between that and the FAQ, I should check my emergency kit and add a few spare fuses.

At this point, I'm wondering if this was a loose connection or something else. I see the comment above above and will go test the grounds once I can find the diagram showing the various ground points.

 

[ZackR]

I could rotate the Positive if I put a little force

If the battery cable is loose you won't get a good charge from the alternator or the full current needed for cranking the engine over. The is the major clue we were missing.

My guess is that when you replaced the battery the connection felt snug but was never fully tight (causing high resistance). Temperature, vibration and other variables caused some of the intermittent issues you were seeing since the connection to the battery was never that great.

 

[jonheld]

If you have no MIL (the check engine light) on the dash when the key is ON, but before the engine is started, the EFI main circuit isn't energized. The engine will not start, and the starter will not turn over, unless this circuit is live.

I'm nitpicking here, but the CEL or lack thereof will have no effect on the starter circuit. The engine will not fire as the ECU is not in a "ready" state, but the starter will crank.