destins 1964 fj40 FST restore thread

[destin]

I'm thinking a big part of the problem is the fact the rear sill has been replaced twice now. I have a 61 hard top with a rusted rear sill. The back is nowhere near square. When I replace the sill I will get measurements from a few other tubs to make sure it's back to stock. I know Destin's vehicle was a soft top which doesn't carry near as much weight on the outside of the tub as the hard top does. But the way Destin looked when he bought I have a feeling it may have been used for more than just simply four wheeling which may explain why the tub was out of square. Just to bad it wasn't corrected when the rear sill was replaced this last time

good point

You think it is too late to square it up?
( via using a pully etc )

I really wished they would have listened to me when I told them to make sure it was square before they welded it.

Sucks paying for work that is not the way I want it.

 

[a.greenspan]

I'm thinking a big part of the problem is the fact the rear sill has been replaced twice now. I have a 61 hard top with a rusted rear sill. The back is nowhere near square. When I replace the sill I will get measurements from a few other tubs to make sure it's back to stock. I know Destin's vehicle was a soft top which doesn't carry near as much weight on the outside of the tub as the hard top does. But the way Destin looked when he bought I have a feeling it may have been used for more than just simply four wheeling which may explain why the tub was out of square. Just to bad it wasn't corrected when the rear sill was replaced this last time

If someone restore a car serious he makes all the measurements before, that`s the first important point.
The other is:
A empty tub can warp very easy - even a Cruiser tub - during blasting and welding if you don`t protect the tub properly !
Means: You have to weld a steel from the right to the left side in the rear and in the front ( where the doors sits) before you start blasting the tub and cutting the rusten parts out.

All I can say: These guys don`t know how to restore properly.
Too bad for all the money Destin put in.



Cheers
Peter

 

[a.greenspan]

... I know Destin's vehicle was a soft top which doesn't carry near as much weight on the outside of the tub as the hard top does. But the way Destin looked when he bought I have a feeling it may have been used for more than just simply four wheeling which may explain why the tub was out of square. ....

that`s from Destins first post

This is the color it is going to be painted.

T332r08uC[/QUOTE]


you can see the difference ( all was ok) see the last pics from Destin it explains (see what I wrote ) why the tub is out of square !

 

[Living in the Past]

If you look at that same picture you can see why I wrote what I did. The tub already looked tweaked. If you look at the catch in the latch you can see it's not centered. There is already extra bracing at the bottom. I know when the sill is rusted the two center body mounts no longer help keep the tub square. I do think it is the body shop fault for not correcting this. On the later tubs it's pretty easy to bolt a piece of angle iron to the hard top mounting holes in the back to keep things square while working on the tub. But a early soft top model doesn't have them or does it have the twist holes in the back to use. The shop should have figured out some way to sqaure it up and keep it that way until it was back on the frame. My point is that is was more than just sand blasting that put it that far out of square. It was well on it way there before the body shop got it. They just never bothered to fit the problem. Shame on them. My 61 has never been sand blasting and Destin's is closer to square than mine by far. Of course it wouldn't hurt for Destin to check the front door opening to make sure that they are correct now before they paint it. Not sure how primer will react to tweaking but I know I did a adjustment on my 68 after painting it and the paint cracked and peeled away at that point. But that was just a cheap paint job to match all the different color parts I used to put it together after flipping it on it's side.

 

[cjgoode]

What great and timely information, I am just about to weld up the rear of my 62. I think it is square, but now I will measure it, make sure it is square and weld a support on the top to keep it square while I patch the bottom. I agree a shop should have done this correct, me barely a hobby for me, so I would have never checked it till I went to put the tailgate on, and that would not be till after I painted it.

They should be able and willing to fix this, should be minor work especially since you caught it before final painting.

 

[dmaddox]

Destin - it's all going to work out bro - don't sweat it. It is obviously going to take longer than expected - but it WILL work out.

Keep in mind - this is bodyshop season! Body shops thrive in the winter because of fender benders, etc.. - likely more so here in Colorado. I am currently about 65% done restoring my 1970 Plymouth RoadRunner - and since the body panels are SO HUGE on a 70 plymouth - I asked my body man to give me a hand on them. Well, given the season - i am on the back burner because of the high amount of big-pay insurance jobs coming in right now.

patience is definately not my virtue - especially in the grand scheme of things. I did NOT want to be here when I was 32.....I mean.....I am just another "dude" on the block. Who cares about mediocrity - of which I seem to have mastered.....

...so in short - hang in there bro. Keep on them to do it right. When this is all done - you'll giggle at the frustration and look at it sitting there in all it's glory - trust me - it will be full of win, I can tell it will be a sick cruiser.

behind you all the way - dallas

 

[destin]

Destin - it's all going to work out bro - don't sweat it. It is obviously going to take longer than expected - but it WILL work out.

Keep in mind - this is bodyshop season! Body shops thrive in the winter because of fender benders, etc.. - likely more so here in Colorado. I am currently about 65% done restoring my 1970 Plymouth RoadRunner - and since the body panels are SO HUGE on a 70 plymouth - I asked my body man to give me a hand on them. Well, given the season - i am on the back burner because of the high amount of big-pay insurance jobs coming in right now.

patience is definately not my virtue - especially in the grand scheme of things. I did NOT want to be here when I was 32.....I mean.....I am just another "dude" on the block. Who cares about mediocrity - of which I seem to have mastered.....

...so in short - hang in there bro. Keep on them to do it right. When this is all done - you'll giggle at the frustration and look at it sitting there in all it's glory - trust me - it will be full of win, I can tell it will be a sick cruiser.

behind you all the way - dallas

Thanks man

Saw you 45 in Toyota trails

Looks AMAZING!

Nice work man

 

[destin]

If you look at that same picture you can see why I wrote what I did. The tub already looked tweaked. If you look at the catch in the latch you can see it's not centered. There is already extra bracing at the bottom. I know when the sill is rusted the two center body mounts no longer help keep the tub square. I do think it is the body shop fault for not correcting this. On the later tubs it's pretty easy to bolt a piece of angle iron to the hard top mounting holes in the back to keep things square while working on the tub. But a early soft top model doesn't have them or does it have the twist holes in the back to use. The shop should have figured out some way to sqaure it up and keep it that way until it was back on the frame. My point is that is was more than just sand blasting that put it that far out of square. It was well on it way there before the body shop got it. They just never bothered to fit the problem. Shame on them. My 61 has never been sand blasting and Destin's is closer to square than mine by far. Of course it wouldn't hurt for Destin to check the front door opening to make sure that they are correct now before they paint it. Not sure how primer will react to tweaking but I know I did a adjustment on my 68 after painting it and the paint cracked and peeled away at that point. But that was just a cheap paint job to match all the different color parts I used to put it together after flipping it on it's side.

indeed

Sad part is I told them to make sure it was square before welding, to avoid this problem. frustrating man, hopefully it will turn out.

Going back down this morning.
Will report back soon.

 

[destin]

What great and timely information, I am just about to weld up the rear of my 62. I think it is square, but now I will measure it, make sure it is square and weld a support on the top to keep it square while I patch the bottom. I agree a shop should have done this correct, me barely a hobby for me, so I would have never checked it till I went to put the tailgate on, and that would not be till after I painted it.

They should be able and willing to fix this, should be minor work especially since you caught it before final painting.

post photos of the process

 

[destin]

that`s from Destins first post

This is the color it is going to be painted.

T332r08uC

you can see the difference ( all was ok) see the last pics from Destin it explains (see what I wrote ) why the tub is out of square ![/QUOTE]



I hear ya

I just want to to be square for the cheddar I am paying
Seems like structural s*** like that should be a priority.

I checked the square of other bits while i was at it yesterday.
Door pillars etc are spot on. So that is comforting

 

[destin]

ok the bent it in, over laps better.
The will fix the little divot and the bottom part of the sill where the lip bowed a bit.

photos:

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

ok the bent it in, over laps better.
The will fix the little divot and the bottom part of the sill where the lip bowed a bit.

photos:

Don't just measure the doors...dry fit all parts...like both the drivers and passenger's doors, cause as you can see with the back end...it looked great till you put the tail gate on.

I had a similar problem with another rig I had when I was younger I know it can be a pain, but now I rather put stuff on, and take it off a dozen times to make sure it is correct, rather then have to deal with it after it is painted. No big deal, doing this work is half the fun

...I just looked in my files for some pics I had saved on just how much "rigging" is needed to ensure a square tub. Not just left to right, but front to back, and quite a few "X"'s tacked in for good measure...freaken thing will look like a spiderweb! Does anyone have any such photos? I think they are on my old computer

 

[a.greenspan]

ok the bent it in, over laps better.
The will fix the little divot and the bottom part of the sill where the lip bowed a bit.
photos:

.... must be a soft tool they used

 

[destin]

.... must be a soft tool they used

Is that bad?

Ugh so tired of this process.

 

[Living in the Past]

I just looked in my files for some pics I had saved on just how much "rigging" is needed to ensure a square tub. Not just left to right, but front to back, and quite a few "X"'s tacked in for good measure...freaken thing will look like a spiderweb! Does anyone have any such photos? I think they are on my old computer

I would interested in seeing something like that Dean. Must be in a body repair manual. Only thing I remember seeing was for the frame only.

 

[AATLAS1X]

Destin,


I don't think that this is going to go the way you want it.

The tub is removed, it's not bent or was bent. It is just the way it was assembled. This is a tub, not a uni body. What do you think is going to happen when you fit the tub and it is not sitting on the tub correctly? Then bolt this thing down and get a few miles on it.

I would in NO WAY request them to tweak that quarter panel. You have no top to square it up relieve the stress.

I am reading comments from people that may apply to their Schwinn bicycle restoration or a unibody, but this is a tub.

All the doors, hood, fenders will all line up as they did when you took it apart. I am sure the tailgate was off in the tub opening when you had it, just never noticed.

I would be more than happy to show you how and help out to line up everything when its complete. As you work from the front to the rear.

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Well Shane, I am a big fan of your work, but I really disagree with most of your last post. They changed the rear sill, twice, and they should have braced it before welding it. Had they done so, it would not have been so off. Also, seeing as it looks like they worked on the floor, had they braced the sides of the tub before doing such welding on replacing floor panels, they would have eliminated any risk of the whole tub bending, or twisting in any way...or any degree. I have personally seen this happen before, so I really do not see where you are coming from with your comments. Bracing something properly before welding anything together is common sense...it does not take much to have a 1/4" to a 1/2" gap as a result of poor preparation

John...man you are going to make me work to find those pics aren't you I'll look again...they were pretty cool

 

[AATLAS1X]

Well Shane, I am a big fan of your work, but I really disagree with most of your last post. They changed the rear sill, twice, and they should have braced it before welding it.

This I did not know. Why I am not sure I as cruised though the thread.

Then as I missed it, as I was thinking that it was placed on the chassis cart and minimal work was done.

YES you have to run square tube across and side to side in the opening to hold the tun not square, but in the original configuration when it was removed.

We on the same page now?

I did not see where any removal or bracing was done, that was why my comments. Also I have seen tubs that people have tried to "TRUE" and nothing, I mean nothing fit. Doors over lapped opening and water flowed in.

Can we hug now?

 

[destin]

eeep!

So is all cool with my tub?
( the way they bent it in to correct it? )

Man this body work is causing me way more grief than i wanted oy!

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

OK then...I was beginning to worry

Shane, like I said, I love the work that you do, so I was floored by your comments.

Hug accepted

The only way I would do it again, is to "true" it up with all doors and top in place. Then once the bracing is tacked welded together, I can go ahead and remove the doors, top, floors, quarters, sill and so on. Then replace, and keep fitting and mocking up before I welded in new metal. Too much has happened to most of these rigs over 20 + years for all the parts to still be perfect. Ironically, restoring my '64 does not mean making it "perfect" with a mirror finish...it means making it as close to what it should have looked like new...dimples and all

Destin, I would seriously test fit everything...doors, bows, seats...etc. Sounds like a pain, but again, one afternoon of good work on your part can save you a few weeks of added aggravation...my 0.02