defiling the lv

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Wow, you just gave me a bunch of ideas. I talked my dad into buying a 65 fj45lv a bit ago, and told him I would help him fix it up....completely different beast than the 40's me and him are used to working on. I wish I had 30 grand to do a correct resto, but I don't, so the plan is to do what needs to be done to keep it functional, reliable, and at least not rotting away waiting for a concours restoration that will never come. So, kudos and thanks! -Matt
 
Got the Spring Hangers in... thought i would give you a heads up. let me know when you want a set. and any one else a have a few pair that i would like to get out there and have some people get these on their truck.

Laser cut and CNC bent for 60 series Pins
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Ah yeah. I do apologize, I’ve been slacking on my posts. I gotta say its nice that folks are interested….thanks for the positive feedback! Man, this whole thing seems full up with obstacles though….kids wanna eat ( I just fed them yesterday!), people keep wanting money for parts, and if I want this money stuff my boss sais I gotta work for it…..the whole thing is just unreasonable if you ask me.


In fact I think I’m gonna have to rob banks or something to finance my FJ habit But I digress….lest see where was I, ahh yes the lower section sills and whatnot. Looking back at the posts I didn’t show too much of the fabrication, mostly because I don’t wanna get laughed at by someone who really knows what they’re doing. I’ll try and get more pictures in. Just to show ya I mean business here’s some now…
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Ahh yes the roof…..man that thing was done. Now it seems to me that all of ouor beloved 45’s had some drainage issues with the roof. Mine must have developed some leaks around the gutters, maybe condensation is to blame also. I’m leaning more towards leaks. The horizontal channels at the top of the doors / windows, the edges of the roof, the support pillars, the curved sheet metal roof supports….everything up top was rusted. That and the whole thing is full up with compound curves. I was a little scared. I did a lot of staring and muttering…then finally I hacked something out to show I was committed. I started at the back side windows. A little z shaped bend and I was able to get the metal above the windows replaced. Next I pretty much made some strips of sheet metal. The tops of the support pillars I cut down, along with the tops of the door openings. I used the strips the replace the junk I cut out. It worked out ok. The crusty old body didn’t want to be welded though. It showed its discontent by vaporizing if I got the welder within a foot of it. The tops of the pillars had some gussets/reinforcements already. I kinda tried to duplicate them. The more I looked at my deteriorated roof the more I became concerned with its integrity. I used the gussets for added strength at the tops of the pillars, but I wont lie I used them to overlap my seams and hide some rotten looking welds.

The top of the front windshield was the worst by far. Gaping holes, an attempt to patch using fiberglass, not automotive stuff mind you…the thick stranded stuff you’d build a boat hull with. bad news I tell ya. Once again more staring and cursing. I removed half of the upper windshield/ roof . once I got it open and could see how it was fabbed originally. It didn’t seem that bad then.


I got two pieces of sheet metal strips, and zipped them together to make one long vertical strip. The roof is over 4’ wide and I only had 4x4 sheets, so I had to stick two together. Once it was dressed up I tacked it into place. the very top of the windshield is curved.it flares out and becomes the A pillar. I ended up making a C shaped strip of sheet metal, about ½” overall. I cut some relief cuts and matched the original radius the best I could. Once everything was fitted and measured, the strip was tacked into the new vertical strip. The C shaped piece I made 48” wide. This left about 3 inches or so at the ends. I think it gave me some support and some continuity over my seam in the vertical piece.

Above the top of the windshield frame there is a horizontal piece. Kinda looks like a baseball cap’s brim. This piece is where the roof and the top of the windshield kinda interface. I cut another 4’ piece about 12” wide. Used the brake to bend a ½” lip on one end. I had completely removed the rest of the old windshield frame by this time and used the old chunks to map out the curves on the front. Once I got the lines down I cut about ½” longer than I marked, and used the brake to try to bend it. It worked out marginally. The brake wants to bend straight of coarse, and I wanted to bend curves. I ended up taking out some of the teeth in the brake. And bending lots of little bends around the radius a little at a time. It got me the lip I need more or less. Hvac installers have a seam tool. Looks like a wide set of flat pliers. I need to get one To pretty the front lip up

Now I just had the corners to deal with. There was two parts to this mini-series. There was the tops of the windshield/ a pillar, and the horizontal portion of the gutter/ baseball cap lookin’ part. The horizontal part was kinda just the same as the rest of the work. I made a template using some cardboard and the old pieces I cut out. I left the leading edge a bit longer, cut some relief tabs, and bent ‘em up with some pliers. A few bad looking welds later…..they were in place! the tops of the pillars was more of the same. Template, hand bend, check and tweak, then bend a few relief tabs to meet up with my C channel and window flange. I didn’t line up perfectly…..i’ll have to use a smidgeon of filler to blend it in. I duplicated some gussets for the horizontal transition at the top of the window, on the inside of the cab….and put them bad boys in too. I still have to finish welding, grinding etc to pretty stuff up. But that can happen later….besides that stuff isn’t as interesting as the fabbing. Its like pictures of house work or something.


Still…. when I was done I was still skeptical of the strength of the whole roof /pillar assembly. I still needed to get inside the top of the roof at the gutters. There was remains of some angled pieces of sheet metal that the makers used to reinforce top horizontal channel/gutter assembly. This I saw but didn’t address when making the inside pieces of the channel. The roof was still on and I didn’t really have a good way to get to them, besides.. I had real concerns that if I removed too much of the channel at once the whole thing might fold up like a taco or something.

I saw a post of a LV that had been in a crash and it rolled or flipped or something. The Poor FJ was pretty mangled, and looked to be in must better condition rust wise than mine. This left me thinking of a few problems I didn’t have the answer to….i knew I needed to pack it up and replace the whole roof. There were too many holes and bad spots to just patch up. Besides…with my level of expertise I’d never get any continuity. You’d see every seam, angle, and bend. Coupled with the fact that I had little faith in my rusted hull I knew something had to be done. I just didn’t trust it. The problem plagued me for a week or two. Then one night, I was in my bathroom trying to fix something. I stooped over to fix something, and hit my head on the sink when I got back up…that’s when the idea hit me…….the Flux Capacitor!!!!! Naa but I did get a plan…..more on that later.
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more photo's
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and more...
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and yet more
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The rear quarters were falling apart when I got it. They were rusting through and the bondo was flaking. You could see the seams where repairs were made after a few collisions. i’m not sure how many, but I’m positive more than one. The patch pieces on the rears were flat…no ribs. I was ok with that too. I figured I’d end up patching them with flat panels again.

Now I searched and searched for replacement parts for this thing before I got it. I knew I was either gonna pay someone or fab the parts myself. Right after spending all my allowance to get the truck, I got looking on ‘mud. At last I had found other folks who had to do the same things I was…..it was kinda like AA for cruisers. I could now admit I had a cruiser problem.

So after reading through ‘mud I stumbled upon a thread about this wild Pakistani fella who was commissioned to make a bunch of quaterpanels…ribs and all!! However it was too late for me, the order had been placed. Rats. I resolved to pack it up and build em…but with no ribs. A little while ago this Mderrick guy tells me he decided he was just gonna use his,and was kind enough to sell me the ones he ordered. ( thanks again Mike!!!). sweet! I have a picture of the guys in Pakistan making em for my laptop wallpaper. What a bunch of bad asses!! No goggles, shoes, and this guy was making stuff I was too lazy to do. Hardcore…

Anyways… The old rotten chunks were taken out…replaced with new quarters.the whole inside stripped down and the inside painted with KBS. I painted the inside of the body too. Hopefully it protects it inside…I do have this question….what do youse guys think about using some type of expansive foam for these sneaky areas inside the body. I was thinking of the pillars too. Anywhere that the body had a void. It would insulate and seal up from leaks.i guess if you did get a leak in a pillar or something you’d be hosed. It wouldn’t have anywhere to run out to and just rust out. condensation wouldn’t be a problem as long as you got all the spots pretty good. i dunno. What have youse guys been doing for these areas?
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I do have this question….what do youse guys think about using some type of expansive foam for these sneaky areas inside the body. I was thinking of the pillars too. Anywhere that the body had a void. It would insulate and seal up from leaks.i guess if you did get a leak in a pillar or something you’d be hosed. It wouldn’t have anywhere to run out to and just rust out. condensation wouldn’t be a problem as long as you got all the spots pretty good. i dunno. What have youse guys been doing for these areas?

Not on my truck thanks!!

I get the trucks rust proofed, NOT undercoated, each year. It doesn't stop corrosion but it certainly slows it down.
 
a)I do have this question….what do youse guys think about using some type of expansive foam for these sneaky areas inside the body. b)I was thinking of the pillars too. ...
b) What have youse guys been doing for these areas?

a) Ooooooooooooooh :eek: :D....
forget it please ;)
Alfa Romeo tried this in the seventies the resutlt was horrible !!!

"To stop the rust-problems, the engineers now tried to fill all box-sections of the Alfasud with a special synthetic foam. The result was even more disastrous - after a certain time water entered into the structure of the foam. The foam became a kind of sponge and rust was pre-programmed. "

b) Read this: Mike Sanders Rust Prevention Grease
Homepage
(best product for rust prevention)

Cheers
Peter


... or use fluid film http://www.fluid-film.com/
easier to get in the USA and easier to work with, but it never beats Mike Sanders Rust Prevention Grease.
 
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hehe....thats kinda what i thought. maybe i'll just try some way to get some more KBS in there.thanks for the input guys!


ehhh... couple more pictures i found
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i bought a sheet metal brake. Its a 4' pro-former box & pan brake. it sais its rated @ 16 guage, but it gets a little unhappy about having to bend 4' of 18 guage.

I dont have a shear though...wish i did. i've been doing most all of my cuts with a cutoff wheel. not very precise. i've seen a few shear/brake/roller combo type units out there, most are around $600. might not be a bad idea to check them out. i was a bit skeptical though, and most of them seemed to only be rated at 20 guage at the most....so it will really cut more like 22 or 24 guage if its not a big piece. i think a fella could do just fine without a roller too. even the 18 guage i use i can bend by hand and get the shapes i want. the 45 seems to be made out of 20 guage, and most areas i've fiddled with have deteriorated to about 30 guage metal. i get the 18 guage for added burliness, but i think 20 guage would be just fine for a cruiser repair though.
 
so i was stewing on how to suppliment my rusty, semi deteriorated columns and windshield, and give my roof structure a bit of support. once again i did a lot of muttering, staring, cursing,more staring. then it hit me,(no more back to the future jokes) i decided to go with a roll cage.

now if i was planning on superhigh speeds or really getting this thing i'd labored over for a year or so in a spot where it would roll often i would have taken a different approach. as it stands with all the time and effort i'm putting into this thing i'd hate to roll it.....lots of hard work down the drain. besides if i wanted a serious 'wheeler i would have chosen something other than a small bus and done nothing to it....then i could feel free to abuse it on the trail. however i digress....

the nascar website and i'm sure others have minimum spec's on roll cage design, mine came close but not quite. no it wont protect me from 180 mph + crashes, but it will look burly and nobody has to know its only moderately beefy, not super beefy. yup its our secret! i got about 100' of 1 1/2" cold rolled square tube, that was a smidgeon more than 1/8 " thick. maybe 3/16" or so. i didn't want to buy a tubing bender, and its a bit easier to measure/fab/cut square stock.

i started at the uprights...the body sits on the frame at a few key points, and i wanted the uprights on top of these spots as much as possible. i ended up putting the posts at 4 spots the windshield, the two pillars around the doors and in the back at the tailgate. the post at the dash/windshield i had to get fancy.. i cut a hole in the dash big enough to fit the post through. then after some measuring and cursing i made two posts, i cut an angle in them to come up straight and then match the windshield angle. it was a little tough to pound them in, and i have a decent size hole to fill where i made some accomadations for the angle i put in .but the fit in pretty stinking good and dont take up as much room as going around the dash.

between the doors was pretty much a straight piece, but behind the rear door i noticed there was no hope of getting the posts over a solid spot with some frame under it. the pillar kinda floats on the wheel well assembly. i decided to build an arch/truss type of thing. i pretty much followed the contours of the floor up over the wheel wells, going from the b pillar to the tailgate. no i doubt nascar or nhra would approve but it should distribute the loads and hide my mistakes and crappy welds. i made the posts a bit longer than i needed, and just attached to them to by bottom plate/arch thing.

i assembled the two sides of my cage, tacked it into place. then i pulled it out and gave it a good once over with the welder, to get all the little sneaky places that would have been neglected. after welding and grinding i put the whole thing back in and prepped for the top. i ended up cutting most of the new peices of metal out that i had previously installed along the top of the body. the gutter/top plate is actually pretty flat once you get the roof, reinforcement and othe stuff cut/ground down. i cut along the gutter type thing and laid my horizontal top bars along the gutter. i positioned them to be half on the gutter, and half off. this gave my gutter sheetmetal somoe support and left enough square stock to attach the posts to. right along the front seats the roof tapers in a bit so i tried to follow the lines the best i could. the posts i notched about halfway through, so the horizontal piece kinda sat on the posts. i tacked the posts to the horizontal piece of stock, and also tacked the gutter/top plate to the stock as well.

i used my old relief cut method to get something like a graceful arch in the cross members. a bit of welding and grinding, some more notching, and ta-da!! top rail arch/roof support. all fairly well tied in to the posts....well except for the front. the windshield posts were in a bit, so the top rail didn't sit on top of the posts like i would have preferred. i ended up installing a small bracket type piece under the intersection and welding the heck out of it. i used the cross piece to try to tie everything together. once again not to nascar spec's, but is does a really nice job of incorperating the original sheetmetal into a semi rigid support. besides... my newly created endo-skeleton looks cool.
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more pictures....
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i didn't want to buy a tubing bender, and its a bit easier to measure/fab/cut square stock.

:lol: You didn't mention that square tube will take waaaay longer to create a bend. I'm all for new :idea: & if you get all the bends really accurate & uniform, I bet it'll look really good & *might not look too cheap. Did you build all the arches at once or make a template? How many points will tie into the frame? I'm not really diggin the bars laying on the floor, not very clean IMO. I would have welded outriggers, under the body & from the frame, to catch all the door pillars. That means you go thru the floor. I designed an 8 pt. cage for my :pig: that way. I also went thru the roof to support a roof rack. I had to fab up some waterproof bases there. A good thing about using round tube is the fully welded junctions will show the full weld material. With the square tubing, you *need to grind down & flush the welds & that takes away from the integrity & strength of the cage design.
 
lc, i read your 40 thread....i'm quite impressed, looks good.your absolutely right on the rollbar...there are much better ways of doing it. mutch to my shame i gotta admit if your gonna do something you shouldn't try to cheeze it. however, my goal was to provide some additional structure to the body, and get some support for some other areas. not really to build a proper cage. i really didn't want to weld the cage directly to the frame just incase i gotta take it off again.

i tried to get the posts directly above the brackets or arms that the body will mount to on the frame.naa it's not making a direct connection to the frame, just as close as possible using the body mounts.

your absolutely right about the time it takes to make the bends too. the tubing bender is probably worth the money if'n you were gonna get serious. i just kinda like square stock, and you dont need too many tools to shape it.

the bends i made by measuring the same pattern, and using a cardboard template.by the way, cardboard gets pissed when you set hot metal on it. like when your checking measurements, even if its onlt there for a second or two.:doh:

the shape of the lv roof is gonna be difficult for me to match. when you use the gutters for contrast my roof got a bit taller as it went back over the rear seats. as it came back to the rear sill it taperd down a bit too. plus the roof has 4 compound curves that are a bit tricky too. in retrospect the corners might not have been too hard to make, still i doubted my technique would lend itself to any kind consistancy. i thought about this as i made the arches....should i make them all identical, or try to match the original lines of the roof? i decided to go with making them all uniform. the roof will roll along the top the rollbar cross pieces making it prety straight across the top.my decision was actually made for me...but more on that later.

i should ask, should i mount the roof metal directly to the cage, or leave a gap and try to wedge some felt or something to support the roof?
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I see you cut part of the front roof off. Unless that area was heavily tweaked, I would have tried to repair the rusted corners. Good luck on matching that factory roof contour. I don't think I would try that.

So the "cage" is more or less decorative if it doesn't tie into the frame, but only the body mounts. The factory didn't provide any roof supports so I don't think it'd be necessary. I would have done the roof mods first. Then, if you feel like supporting that sheetmetal, you could have designed the arches to sit just below the roof ( ~1/4") & add some rubber furring strips on top of them. I went with a heavy duty roof rack to prevent any future roof damage.

Are you welding your square tube vertically onto the pillars for the support or are they freestanding? I can appreciate all the fabwork you're doing & it looks really good. I know it's a hobby & it's really fun, but I think you're doing a lot of unnecessary & time consuming work, IMO. Did you know what you were getting into buying the truck? :D
 

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