Cylinder compression loss after timing chain replacement (1 Viewer)

[ppc]

You are going to find that most shops are not going to want to take any major, or often even minor repair on your Cruiser. That is not where they make their money. Just not their business model. I used to refer some jobs to a friend who operates a very good shop. He is a Cruiser enthusiast even. Or was in the past. It got to the point that he was not only turning those jobs away, but asking me not to refer them.

Modern shops make their money on quick in and out work on modern cars. Not major jobs on older rigs. They lose money trying to acquaint themselves with the quirks of rigs that rolled off the production line before some of their mechanics were even born.

And... skilled labor is expensive. Comprehensive repairs are time consuming. Machine work as well.

Looks like the dealer might have been quoting the timing chain replacement and the head work as two separate jobs. In spite of the fact that head removal would have been included in the timing chain replacement. Unethical to say the least *IF* that is what they were doing.

16 hours for the timing chain job... an additional 10 hours to quote the head separately

Assume about $180 an hour as a guess for dealership labor rates in southern CA... that would put you at just under $4700 for labor... assume as much as $1000 for the head work if it is the dealership guys pricing it... add in all the various fees and stuff they might tack on...

Yep, $6K easy. Even if they didn't jerk you around, a price right around $5k would not surprise me.


My point... if you can not do the work yourself on your land Cruiser, you ARE gonna spend money.

Trying to save money by dropping down to the lower levels of the food chain... Not a good idea. I would assume that there has got to be at least one or two guys offering mobile automotive service in your area who are skilled and experienced, ethical, well equipped and capable of handling major repairs in your driveway. Maybe? possibly?
You are not gonna find them easily IF they are out there.


Next subject:

Anything that I or anyone else has said here should have been taken as conjecture and suggestion ONLY. You really should not be paying a mechanic to do a specific task on your vehicle based only on internet guesses! No matter how confident I or others may be about what the problem with your rig is... we still have not even laid eyes on it.

You never tell a professional mechanic what is wrong with your rig and tell him to fix it. Unless you are skilled enough yourself to have diagnosed it and would be able to fix it yourself and you just do not have the time. You tell him what the symptoms are, and pass on any GUESSES that you might have and task HIM to keep that in mind and determine what the actual problem is and to fix it.


If you tell him to do something, pay him to do something, he does it, and that was not the problem... now what?

If he can not figure the problem out himself... he is not the one to be working on the rig.

And... if someone is not qualified to work on your rig... "monitoring them... when you are also not qualified to work on the rig... solves nothing. If they ARE qualified to work on your rig and you "monitor" them to make sure they do it right... Seriously?

Find someone who can fix it WITHOUT you telling them what the internet told you to do... pay them what they are worth... step back and wait.

Mark...

Very well stated.

 

[nashqadri]

I believe that you thought this was a timing belt that should be changed every100k miles or so. Timing chains are meant to last the life of the vehicle more or less. Hence, why it us usually much harder to replace one. Please do research on a job before you start on it or have someone else start on it. I think if you had done that then you would have realized that all of this was completely unnecessary. I hope this is important take away from this experience.

I agree. All this was unnecessary. Not justifying it ... just saying why i did it. There were several factors that drove me to this decision.

1. The vehicle was in extremely bad shape. The entire engine was coated with dirt and/or grease and oil due to leaks from a few different sources. Engine bay was more or less the same. Degreasers didn't work well also so it felt like the maintenance was extremely poor in the last few years.
2. A person with his dog was living out of the vehicle right along the beach. There was beach sand all over the car.
3. Engine light was on, cylinder #6 was misfiring.
4. Serpentine belts had loose fibers.
5. Fuel tank was leaking unless it only had a quarter tank of gas.
6. Coolant evaporating every 2 to 3 days but no apparently leak. Many many more issues.

These issues didnt mean that timing chain had to be replaced. None of these would have been fixed by only changing the timing chain... I know that but the general impression was that the vehicle didn't get any love. i wanted all the failure-prone parts to be replaced. My goal was to drive it up tp the Sierra's in early Oct with the family for a week long camping trip so I wanted a fairly reliable vehicle.

 

[manofthewoods]

I agree. All this was unnecessary. Not justifying it ... just saying why i did it. There were several factors that drove me to this decision.

1. The vehicle was in extremely bad shape. The entire engine was coated with dirt and/or grease and oil due to leaks from a few different sources. Engine bay was more or less the same. Degreasers didn't work well also so it felt like the maintenance was extremely poor in the last few years.
2. A person with his dog was living out of the vehicle right along the beach. There was beach sand all over the car.
3. Engine light was on, cylinder #6 was misfiring.
4. Serpentine belts had loose fibers.
5. Fuel tank was leaking unless it only had a quarter tank of gas.
6. Coolant evaporating every 2 to 3 days but no apparently leak. Many many more issues.

These issues didnt mean that timing chain had to be replaced. None of these would have been fixed by only changing the timing chain... I know that but the general impression was that the vehicle didn't get any love. i wanted all the failure-prone parts to be replaced. My goal was to drive it up tp the Sierra's in early Oct with the family for a week long camping trip so I wanted a fairly reliable vehicle.

80 series do not feature a serpentine belt. Thankfully

 

[nashqadri]

Changing the timing chain led to a cracked block. This statement begs the question - how can this be accomplished ? This must be a Guiness world record...but my mechanic (fired) did accomplish it. I dont know how and he is pretending he doesnt know either. The only thoery i could come up with is that when he pulled the motor out, he either dropped it ... the hoist broke or something.... or he accidently hammered it.... God knows what.

What are my cost effective options I wonder. Looking for advice
1. Weld the block. I dont know if its a durable solution. Please share if anyone has had any experience.
2. Get a block from a yard. I will have no idea what the head has been through. It will have to machined and may require components which may drive the cost up.
3. buy a new OEM block from Toyota - $5k
4. Buy a partial engine assembly. - $10k.

Please advise.

 

[ppc]

Cut your losses. Sell it for what you can get and move on to another 80 that is better condition. Spend the money to get a presale inspection that also includes a estimate of repair costs and valuation.

 

[mudgudgeon]

About the only option worth considering is see if you can find a used engine you can do a straight swap with and try your luck.

A new block, or new short motor from Toyota will cost you $10-15k or more by the time its built up, installled and running.

Seriously weigh up whether you want to spend that sort of coin on a POS homeless person's car

If the rest of the car was in good condition, that sort of outlay is more easily justified.

 

[Mark W]

Changing the timing chain led to a cracked block. This statement begs the question - how can this be accomplished ? This must be a Guiness world record...but my mechanic (fired) did accomplish it. I dont know how and he is pretending he doesnt know either. The only thoery i could come up with is that when he pulled the motor out, he either dropped it ... the hoist broke or something.... or he accidently hammered it.... God knows what.

What are my cost effective options I wonder. Looking for advice
1. Weld the block. I dont know if its a durable solution. Please share if anyone has had any experience.
2. Get a block from a yard. I will have no idea what the head has been through. It will have to machined and may require components which may drive the cost up.
3. buy a new OEM block from Toyota - $5k
4. Buy a partial engine assembly. - $10k.

Please advise.

Pulling the engine is not part of the process to replace a timing chain. Pulling the engine requires pulling the entire engine/transmission/transfercase assembly. There is absolutely no reason for this to be done and adds a s*** load of extra work for no point whatsoever. I seriously doubt that the motor was pulled by a mobile mechanic in your garage. If he did, then this is one of the most clueless and ****ed up operations I have heard of in quite a while.

Engine blocks do not get cracked from "being dropped". It is cast ****ing iron. It is never just hanging from the hoist bare and empty with all of the ancillary components removed (those are the parts that would get damaged if an engine was removed for no reason and somehow dropped from the hoist).

"Hammering" a block (and CRACKING A CYLINDER BORE!!!) Is simply not a thing.

Welding a cracked block (cylinder bore) is simply not a thing either.

"Yards" do not sell engine blocks. They sell engines.

The compression numbers you passed on to us (combined with the ones you mentioned seeing previously) are not the sort of symptoms that result from a cracked block

How was it determined that the block is cracked?


Mark...

 

[Batameez]

Next step should be calling another handyman to fix another thing on it that isn't broken.

 

[jsloden]

The next step would be to sell it for whatever you can get for it then buy yourself a newer car that doesn't require as much maintenance, like a camry. Then I would find a trustworthy mechanic. Just out of curiosity, how do you know the block is cracked?

 

[nashqadri]

the mechanic says he followed the repair manual.

 

[mudgudgeon]

the mechanic says he followed the repair manual.

View attachment 3767599

The only thoery i could come up with is that when he pulled the motor out, he either dropped it ... the hoist broke or something.... or he accidently hammered it.

Why did he remove the motor?

Post pics of the crack.

 

[Shipwreck]

6. Coolant evaporating every 2 to 3 days but no apparently leak. Many many more issues

I would be hesitant to blame this on your mechanic. You said back on post #43 that one of the reasons that you began the original chain replacement was that there was coolant loss of unknown origin. Unexplained coolant loss can = cracked block/head, head gasket, oil cooler leak, etc.

 

[Mark W]

the mechanic says he followed the repair manual.

There was never any reason presented here to think that he did not, beyond some assumptions you apparently made. He *may* have made mistakes. he may not have. Following the manual does not keep that from happening any more than not following it automatically causes them.

What is your point here?


Mark..

 

[nashqadri]

There was never any reason presented here to think that he did not, beyond some assumptions you apparently made. He *may* have made mistakes. he may not have. Following the manual does not keep that from happening any more than not following it automatically causes them.

What is your point here?


Mark..

Not making a point but just answering one of the questions posted here as to why did the mechanic remove the head because its not needed to replace the timing chain. So now after reading the manual he was following, i dont blame him either. He simply followed the manual and removed the head.

I would think following the maual would reduce the odds of mistakes happening.

 

[Mark W]

I would think following the maual would reduce the odds of mistakes happening.

It does. But if all you had to do was follow the manual for a guaranteed result... any IT worker, insurance adjuster or toll booth attendant could fix your Cruiser for you. Or build a space shuttle!

Mistakes happen. Even when you know your s***, mistakes happen. That is why they are mistakes.

Mark...

 

[nashqadri]

I would be hesitant to blame this on your mechanic. You said back on post #43 that one of the reasons that you began the original chain replacement was that there was coolant loss of unknown origin. Unexplained coolant loss can = cracked block/head, head gasket, oil cooler leak, etc.

Its possible it was already cracked but i am assuming that compression test readings would not have been good at the time when i was buying the car. All 6 cylinders were pretty much 180. It drove really well as well. In fact, the acceleration was better than all other LCs i test drove. I had high confidence in the motor so wanted to make sure it lasts even longer. Overall, i am still okay given I bought the car for $4500. I put in some money but not a whole lot.

 

[Mark W]

How have you determined/why do you think that you have a cracked block?


Mark...

 

[Batameez]

We don't even know if the block is cracked. Considering it appears to have been neglected so long, it may even be a seeping PHH. Can you confirm if any of the handymen who touched it were in ownership of torque wrenches as well? I have doubts the head is even torqued properly.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If this car is to be resurrected, next step really should be flat bed tow this thing to a real mechanic with a reputation for landcruiser experience.

Get a real assessment of the state of the engine from a pro, not guesses from internet clowns based on the clueless information provided.

Even if it cost you $500 to toss it to someone, it's cheap insurance and might just save you throwing 5 figures at it needlessly



***I can neither confirm nor deny my internet clown status

 

[nashqadri]

How have you determined/why do you think that you have a cracked block?


Mark...

The second mechanic after firing the first one is telling me that the block is cracked. He is a professional mobile mechanic with a truck full of all tools. He is organized and structured in his work so I like him but there is no reason to believe that he can never be mistaken. He hasn't come in a week since some parts he needs to install (coolant temp sensors and knock sensor connector) got delivered just yesterday. He will be here tomorrow. Will know more. I would still like to start the engine and see what happens.