CV Axle too short?!

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

Hi,

So, long story short, I had a craigslist mechanic install 2 CV axles, and he was going to install new wheel bearings at the same time... He got the axles in, and then got called out of state to do some work... I ended up having to do the wheel bearings/brake rotors/pads myself.

I got the driver side together no problems at all.

The passenger side seemed to go together OK.. maybe a little tougher to get the hub to slide all the way onto the spindle, but it seemed to go on, and rotate without trouble... Got it all put together, and noticed after I put the hub cover on, that the CV axle was not sticking out far enough to get the C-Clip on. I tried to reach behind and pull the axle "out" towards the brake rotor to get it to stick out more, but it bottoms out before it gets out far enough to get the clip on.

I pulled it all back apart, cleaned up the spindle really good to make sure there wasn't some sort of debris getting between the hub and the spindle, and put it all back together... Same thing... Seemed harder than the driver side to get the hub on slide on the spindle again, but it did go on... But again, the CV axle doesn't stick out far enough... Infact it seems the 54mm hub nut doesn't seem threaded as far onto the spindle as it should be.

I'm obviously missing something, or doing something wrong... Any idea what? I've had it apart/back together twice now and it's no different... I did pop the seal out and put a new one in, just to be sure that didn't have anything to do with it (even though the original one was seated deep enough/seemed OK)..

Anyway, any suggestions? I'm at my wits end, not sure if I should just bolt the wheel on and drive it to a mechanic or what, it SEEMS ok... Any help will be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!
--ElmoTheDestroyer

 

[Julian Stead]

Have you used a bolt in the end of the cv so you can give it a pull, I have found to much grease at the spindle bearing makes it harder to pull, it does come in the end though, a puller could be handy.

 

[Julian Stead]

Ps. When pulling on the bolt rotate the hub to move the grease around.

 

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

I have not tried pulling on it with a bolt... When I tried pulling the axle itself it seemed to bottom out (would make a bit of a metallic "thunk" when it bottoms out when sliding it back and fourth so I figured pulling on it with a bolt wouldn't produce any results... I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see what happens... It only needs to come out about the thickness of the C-Clip, so it doesn't have far to go...

Anyone happen to know of an easy to get to donor bolt? Or what the size/threadpitch is?

Thanks again!
--ElmoTheDestroyer

 

[paflytyer]

A simple one, but easy to forget...... Did you remove the old gasket before placing the new one on? It may have been (and still is) stuck to the flange.

 

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

Thanks for the idea, but it's definitely not double gasketed...

--ElmoTheDestroyer

 

[2001LC]

Are these OEM or aftermarket front drive shafts, New or Rebuilt? Do THEY MATCH old ones?
Was new snap ring and seal used on differential side of front drive shaft axle? Not your issue just good practice.
Old or New OEM bearings & races, are races seated?
Correct seals and seated correctly?
Old hub flange gasket removed & replaced with new?
Did you set breakaway preload to 9.5 to 15 LB? What was torque on adjusting nut to get that?

Toyota no longer has part number for outboard seal, this is from Tundra IIRC

Back of knuckle seal protrudes ~4mm

Back of hub seal....Flush

Breakaway preload 9.5 to 15lb

After lubing axle bearing & bushing grease can buildup between front driveshaft axle outboard bushing surface and axle brass bushing in back side of knuckle. A puller can help to insure axle is pulled all the way out. Note Clamp on back side of knuckle, not thin metal of shielding.

 

[jemsec]

As for a bolt, use one on the driver's side fender wheel. Perfect match and will always be there.

 

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

Are these OEM or aftermarket front drive shafts, New or Rebuilt? Do THEY MATCH old ones?
Was new snap ring and seal used on differential side of front drive shaft axle? Not your issue just good practice.
Old or New OEM bearings & races, are races seated?
Correct seals and seated correctly?
Old hub flange gasket removed & replaced with new?
Did you set breakaway preload to 9.5 to 15 LB? What was torque on adjusting nut to get that?

Toyota no longer has part number for outboard seal, this is from Tundra IIRC

Sorry for the delay in getting back, been crazy busy, haven't had a chance to sit down till now...

The CV axles are rebuilt ones from Oreilly. I don't know if they matched the old ones because the work was done without me being around (working).. Never had a chance to compare them really.

No idea about the snap ring/seal on the diff side of the driveshaft - Mechanic did the work while I was working so I was unable to see what he did exactly (aside from install the new CV axles).

New, National brand bearings and races. I had a local, highly rated (online) shop install the races for me. - Races seem seated fine, the inner bearing seal seats even, looks identical as the driver side which went together perfect.

Yes, they are the correct seals, and seem seated fine (again, matches the driverside perfectly and I didn't have any trouble at all on that side).

I don't even have enough clearance with the hub flange gasket completely removed.

Yes, I set preload at 14.5lbs - Torque on adjusting bolt was around 45-48 (I have a cheap, bar style torque wrench, hard to be perfectly accurate).


I haven't tried the bolt trick yet, not with a puller... I just had a minute tonight, just threw a bolt in the axle and tried to pull on it with a large vice grip and didn't get it to budge.


Will try a puller tomorrow and see how things go.... Thanks!

--ElmoTheDestroyer

 

[2001LC]

Troubles me that you state :"Infact it seems the 54mm hub nut doesn't seem threaded as far onto the spindle as it should be." dealing with aftermarket parts can be problematic.

You've not said how much total gap you have (with snap ring out)? There are 6 different thickness of snap ring, you may just need a thinner one. I've gone thicker over the years with all original front drive shaft (axle), bearing, races, hub flange. I would need to go thinner if I was to install new today.

 

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

I'm suspecting the 54mm hub nut isnt threading as far down as it should do it it being a bit chewed up. Clearly some idiot used an air chisel to remove them in the past, so they are damaged (the indentations caused by the air chisel caused "high spots" right next to the indentation) ... I don't know if this accounts for all of it, but I think it's responsible in part for what I'm seeing. If this is what's causing them not to be threaded on as far as they should be, I don't think it would affect how far the axle sticks out of the hub.

Im planning on grinding them smooth again before I reinstall them again to eliminate that being an issue.

Currently I can just barely see the gap the snap ring goes into, no way I'd even get a thin one installed currently. Unfortunately I don't have a way to measure gaps currently. Someone borrowed my feeler gauges a while back and I never got'm back... lol, didn't even think about it till now since I don't use them often.

I would have preferred to go new OEM on the driveshafts and stuff, but they just weren't in the budget. I was in a hurry to get this fixed/put together because I needed the LC for a roadtrip to pick up some furniture from my sister. I'm on disability so my budget is tight, and due to that, and some other problems it would have taken 2-3 more months to have the extra money for new OEM stuff.

I'm going to mess around with it this afternoon, I'll try to get a picture of what it looks like so you can see how far the axle is sticking out. It basically needs to come out about the thickness of a thick snapring. 1-2mm

Thanks!
--ElmoTheDestroyer

 

[2001LC]

I hate when I see hammer marks on hub flange and chisel marks on lock & adjusting nuts. Note: I like flat side of adjusting nut facing in, puts more surface on claw washer. For locking nut I go either way, flat out and get better bit with 54mm socket, or flat facing in some feel stiffer set-up.

Before using the puller, take a look at back side (knuckle butts to driveshaft) to make sure double seal set-up are seating, and there is obstruction. Also try pulling (bolt in axle with vice grip) on axle really hard while turn front drive shaft. This may help settle seals & grease between brass axle bushing and driveshaft outboard tulip.

 

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

So....

I didn't have much time today, but I did manage to pick up a feeler gauge.

I checked the gap between the knuckle/spindle assembly, and the CV axle hub ...

It does appear perhaps its the knuckle seal causing the trouble. It appears slightly further out than the good side, and the gap inbetween the axle and the seal is smaller on the bad side, which also makes it seem the seal must be out further than it should be.. Obviously its not a big difference, but I think it could be enough to be the problem...

Not sure if I'll have time to pull things apart and deal with that knuckle seal till Friday or next week... Anyone happen to have a video or good "how-to" guide to change that seal? I'm not a mechanic, but I'm not a complete idiot either, if I have a decent tutorial I should be able to do it... lol, or maybe I'll get the mechanic that did the axles to come back and do that, since it seems to be something he caused anyway... hmmm..

Thanks again!
--ElmoTheDestroyer

PS - Included a pic of the gap I was talking about being smaller on the "bad" side than the "good" side. I'm sure that indicates the seal is messed up somehow..

 

[bucfl]

Apologies for hijacking your thread. I just packed the Inner CV. I still need to do the outer. Can I use the same grease?

 

[ElmoTheDestroyr]

Yup, same stuff....