Custom HeadLights.. Yay or Nay??

[Arleaux]

Very interesting thread, especially since I thought about retrofitting these lamps later on but when I went out to look at mine afterwards, it does not allow you to remove the projector lamps, only the high beams. HID's will pretty much blow any lighting out of the water so I definitely wouldn't want to compare these lamps to those.

This is what I have been waiting to hear. That sucks.

 

[cary]

A few comments on the beams from the photos you posted. They have significant hotspotting (see the black circles), they have very uneven coverage (see the red circles, it also appears on the outside but the photo won't let me say for sure). Finally, they are way out of adjustment. Look at where I have the lower green line, the cutoff should be set a little lower than that. Here is an article on how to properly adjust your lights.

http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html

Finally, you need to sort out the difference between output and pattern. I posted Hoser's pictures because they show what a good pattern should look like, whether or not they are HID's is irrelevant as to what a good pattern represents.

 

[jditom]

The next person to buy these lamps should.
Not have a bush guard on.
Install only one side and take a pic side by side comparison day and night.
Also pics with OEM and aftermarket at night in the same place.

OK who is next

 

[NVR ENUF]

This is what I have been waiting to hear. That sucks.

Having skimmed thru Hoser's thread and then checking my lights out, I thought you pulled the lamps out from the back but going over that thread again, he takes off the front housing and removes the lens from there. So I guess it has yet to be determined if I can do the same with these lamps. I'll take a better look when I remove it again later on.

Cary,

The lamps are definitely not aligned properly and I already mentioned the hotspotting being there but you keep disregarding that I have a brush guard obstructing the lamps. I see you critique lighting like a jeweler would a diamond. The average Joe would not see most of the imperfections like myself. All I see is brighter lighting than I had before. I do notice the uneven spots you mentioned but I attribute that to the grille guard. Even the wife noticed how much brighter they are because she's asked before if I had the lights on with the OEM's cause after driving newer vehicles, the stock OEM's sometimes appeared non-existant.
In Hoser's pic, it seems like the hot spot is still noticeable but not beamlike as in mine and if you look to the left, there appears unevenness and to the right, you can't tell with the trees but notice how the trees drastically hinder the lighting behind it. Now can you at least imagine the brush guards doing that also which I feel causes a lot of the uneveness you keep bringing out.

 

[Hyatus]

Though different, I think this style is reserved for a more sporty application and with a "Land Bruiser" utility is the word with me...

 

[notyourmomslx450]

I have the black ones on mine which i think look awesome. I don't have the three little led lights hooked up, just the angel eyes and parking lamps but they were not plug and play but it was very simple to connect. They are so much brighter its amazing and I really like the look of the halos. The construction of the housing is actually pretty well designed.

could you post up a pic of the black? please?

 

[jditom]

could you post up a pic of the black? please?

I second that again. We would love to see these black lights

 

[Sage Fly Rods]

Since we are trying to keep this thread on point, I'm going to post some images of what a high quality projector beam should look like. I know you (nvr enough) are happy with your beam, but looking at it objectively, it leaves a great deal to be desired, hot spotting and dark spots. As it ages and the lamp gets moisture and dust in it, it will get more noticable as output decreases. Notice how these lamps have no hot spotting, dim spots etc. Keep in mind that all the projector does is provide a sharp upper cutoff, it does not control the light below the cutoff point, that is still controlled by the lens and reflector.

The first two photos are of the Hella 90mm projector module low beam and then the matched low+high beam. The third photo is of Hoser's excellent Bosch based HID projector retrofit to his LX470.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=91642&highlight=hid+conversion

Cary I thought you smarter than that and would of figured it out by now. You can't compare those with nvr enuf's photos. He has the standard h1 bulb that came with them(not so much a cheap one but just a standard h1 bulb, definately not like the ones in your photos). In order to be fair he needs to replace those bulbs with a higher quality if your going to compare them to the HID conversion or those other projectors. I'll post a pick of mine after I upgrade mine with either silverstars or HIRs i haven't decided yet. Then we can compare them fairly.

 

[jditom]

Cary I thought you smarter than that and would of figured it out by now. You can't compare those with nvr enuf's photos. He has the standard h1 bulb that came with them(not so much a cheap one but just a standard h1 bulb, definately not like the ones in your photos). In order to be fair he needs to replace those bulbs with a higher quality if your going to compare them to the HID conversion or those other projectors. I'll post a pick of mine after I upgrade mine with either HIDs or HIRs i haven't decided yet. Then we can compare them fairly.

Sage,
Post a pic now so we can see what black ones looks like and a night shot so we can see it without a bull bar.

 

[The Nak]

Slight hijack...

... plus I can't go back anyhow since I already sold my OEM's!

Yes, that would be me . NVR, you have a PM and a paypal payment waiting for you. Just thought I'd let you know.

Nak

Please return to your regularly scheduled bickering...

 

[cary]

Cary I thought you smarter than that and would of figured it out by now. You can't compare those with nvr enuf's photos. He has the standard h1 bulb that came with them(not so much a cheap one but just a standard h1 bulb, definately not like the ones in your photos). In order to be fair he needs to replace those bulbs with a higher quality if your going to compare them to the HID conversion or those other projectors. I'll post a pick of mine after I upgrade mine with either silverstars or HIRs i haven't decided yet. Then we can compare them fairly.

Actually, I am being fair. As I previously explained a good pattern is a good pattern. There will be no difference in the pattern from H1 to H1 bulb, the focal point and length of the filament should be the same (unless they are not constructed properly) from bulb to bulb. I would love to see you run an HIR lamp in these housings that take an H1 bulb, given that HIR lamps only come in a 9011 and 9012 base (nearly the same as a 9006 and 9005). The bases, focal points, focal lengths, and plugs are completely different. As far as running silverstars, I guess you haven't gotten it yet, Silverstars are overpriced, blue tinted bulbs. On a good day they have the same 1500 lumen output as the standard H1 bulb. You knew all that right?!!! Please do explain why I should be smarter than that?!!!

I'm sure these lights do seem brighter, with that glaring hotspot that your eye focuses on, you will be able to see where the beam is easier than a smoothly blended well filled in beam.

I know you guys don't want to hear it and it is a bitter pill to swallow, but the beam quality of the lamps stinks. Pull the damage multiplier off, and they will still stink. The damage multiplier is not causing the hot spotting. Adjust them properly and will be even worse as those bright hotspots will now be focused in even closer, making them brighter, and causing the driver to focus in closer to the the front of the vehicle than out in front.

This is a direct quote from Daniel Stern, which is better than writing it all over again:

In clear conditions, more foreground light is not a good thing, it's a bad thing. Some foreground light is necessary so you can use your peripheral vision to see where you are relative to the road edges, the lane markings and that pothole 10 feet in front of your left wheels. But foreground light is far less safety-critical than light cast well down the road into the distance, because at any significant speed (much above 30 mph), what's in the foreground is too close for you to do much about. If you increase the foreground light, your pupils react to the bright, wide pool of light by constricting, which in turn substantially reduces your distance vision—especially since there's no increase in down-the-road distance light to go along with the increased foreground light. It's insidious, because high levels of foreground light give the illusion, the subjective impression, of comfort and security and "good lighting".

If you want to do a upgrade to the 80 lamps, go buy some Hella 90mm projectors and fab up some housings.

 

[cary]

Here is a little more to chew on:

Don't be fooled; it's an error to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff. In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun—whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light under the cutoff. And, as with all other automotive lamps (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, and so forth.

sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

 

[MikePL]

NVR ENUF,

You do not have to remove the whole brush guard. You can unscrew the skinny bars in front of the headlights. They are held by 4 allen screws each. It's a 10 minute job and you even don't have to bend over it.

 

[Sage Fly Rods]

First off chew on this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-...015QQitemZ250072580893QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

 

[Sage Fly Rods]

Don't worry I'm definately not going to put those in(way to high wattage) but HIRs do exist for H1 now its only a matter of time before more come out.
Second as I said before I said these lights were better because I can see down the road alot better than the stocks as Daniel stern was talking about. In fact the foreground lighting on these are worse than stocks but like stern states thats really not the important part. You don't need a super bright foreground and in some cases is actually more dangerous. In fact thats funny because I think you were the one judging these light by the cutoff point in earlier posts which is exactly what daniel stern says not to do. But anyways I don't mean to pick on you this is about the headlights so tonight or tomorrow I'll post some pics.

 

[cary]

First off chew on this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-...015QQitemZ250072580893QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

Oh boy, somebody selling fake HIR Bulbs.

Do you believe everything you read on Ebay? I guess so, since you are willing to believe that those things are HIRs. Those are plain old blue tinted ricer bulbs. Would you like to play again?

 

[cary]

Don't worry I'm definately not going to put those in(way to high wattage) but HIRs do exist for H1 now its only a matter of time before more come out.
Second as I said before I said these lights were better because I can see down the road alot better than the stocks as Daniel stern was talking about. In fact the foreground lighting on these are worse than stocks but like stern states thats really not the important part. You don't need a super bright foreground and in some cases is actually more dangerous. In fact thats funny because I think you were the one judging these light by the cutoff point in earlier posts which is exactly what daniel stern says not to do. But anyways I don't mean to pick on you this is about the headlights so tonight or tomorrow I'll post some pics.

I would suggest you go back and re-read what I posted. Try post #113 where I specifically explained to you what is controlled by the lens and reflector and what is controlled by the projector cutoff. I love how you read a tibit of information then pop out with "You don't need a super bright foreground and in some cases is actually more dangerous." Hello, read what was posted previously. Both Idaho Doug and I tried to explain these problems to you, as they exist with your lamps.

I have already addressed that HIR's are not available in H1 in my previous post. Keep in mind only Toshiba/Harrison has a license to manufacture these, they are a patented GE invention.

Did you catch the part that your lights are grossly out of alignment. They are pointed UP. The problems with your lamps will show up worse when you align them properly (i.e. hotspotting, dark spots, excessive foreground illumination). If you are going to go through the hassle of taking more photo's at least align them properly, I have provided you with the information on how to do it.

I'm sorry the truth sucks. I'm sorry the beams on these things are not very good, but that is the truth. Asthetically they may be what you are looking for, but in the middle of no-where on a dark night in the rain, I sure wouldn't want to have them.

 

[Sage Fly Rods]

Oh boy, somebody selling fake HIR Bulbs.

Do you believe everything you read on Ebay? I guess so, since you are willing to believe that those things are HIRs. Those are plain old blue tinted ricer bulbs. Would you like to play again?

BRO I'M NOT HERE TO PLAY. I'M HERE TO HELP FELLOW MEMBERS. I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT MY HEADLIGHTS OR I MAY BE RIGHT. EITHER WAY I HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND IWILL POST THE PICS OF MY LIGHTS FOR OTHER MEMBERS AND DISCUSS IT. ALL I'M SAYING IS YOU ARE NO EXPERT AND HAVE NO EXPERIENCE SO WHY CAN'T YOU JUST JUST KEEP THE SLIGHTEST OPEN MIND TO THESE LIGHTS. MAYBE YOUR RIGHT MAYBE YOUR WRONG BUT THIS FORUM IS ALOT BETTER AND PROVIDES USEFUL INFO WHEN PEOPLE ARE OPEN MINDED. I'LL POST SOME PICS AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT FAIRLY AND WITH OPEN MINDS.

 

[cary]

BRO I'M NOT HERE TO PLAY. I'M HERE TO HELP FELLOW MEMBERS. I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT MY HEADLIGHTS OR I MAY BE RIGHT. EITHER WAY I HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND IWILL POST THE PICS OF MY LIGHTS FOR OTHER MEMBERS AND DISCUSS IT. SO WHY CAN'T YOU JUST JUST KEEP THE SLIGHTEST OPEN MIND TO THESE LIGHTS. MAYBE YOUR RIGHT MAYBE YOUR WRONG BUT THIS FORUM IS ALOT BETTER AND PROVIDES USEFUL INFO WHEN PEOPLE ARE OPEN MINDED. I'LL POST SOME PICS AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT FAIRLY AND WITH OPEN MINDS.

I have kept an open mind. Have you noticed yet, my first post was not until after you posted beamshots and in direct response to those photos. I made my decisions on the evidence you provided, and that evidence shows a mediocre product.

I am all about useful information. To me useful information extends further than simply opinions of "dude I think it is better."

You keep talking about "POST[ING] SOME PICS AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT FAIRLY AND WITH OPEN MINDS", in fact you have posted several pictures several times. The problem is when we point out the problems with the lights that you love, you simply respond that we are stupid, don't know what we are talking about, are being mean, are raining on your parade, . . . . You need to take a close look a who isn't being objective.

Finally, it is rather ironic that you have several times said "ALL I'M SAYING IS YOU ARE NO EXPERT AND HAVE NO EXPERIENCE". Have you bothered reading the lighting FAQ yet? Give it a go and while you are reading it, take a look at who wrote it. Those HIR bulbs that people keep talking about. Try a search to find out where they came from and who arranged the first group buy and why the search began for a better product. Guess who did all that?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Sage,

Post 128. I'll second that you are criticizing something you aren't fully up to speed on. The hot spots and the poor pattern have nothing to do with the bulb. Hot spots are areas of too much light contrasting with areas of too little light and are fatiguing to drive with. These spots and uneven lighting would occur with better bulbs, worse bulbs - all bulbs. The output pattern, for better or worse, is not determined by the bulbs.

I'm no expert either, but lighting is a science - with right and wrong clearly defined. As to having an open mind, I can appreciate the sentiment but frankly there's little point when discussing whether something is optically correct or not in having a touchy-feely feeling that something is "better" when it simply is not.

DougM