Custom HeadLights.. Yay or Nay??

[jditom]

Thanks!


You make some valid points and I myself question the quality of the lights too before I bought them. Usually, OEM's are better but we're talking about a 10yr old lamp vs a modern style lamp. Like I mentioned before, I was looking for a more modern look anyhow as in today's vehicles. Having bought two vehicles recently and seeing how much better the lighting was than the rig, I wanted to make a change. Even the cheap E machines pc's are much better than your top-of-the-line Dell ten year's ago. The brightest light I've seen so far are the ones in our 06' Jetta. It blows the projector lights the E350 has away!

Dude, I think they look good. If you could take a night time pic on the open road that would be great. I think folks calling these lights crap when they never even touched them is a bit harsh. Folks need to chill. Good to express your oponion here but lets face it if you never used the product your oponion is almost worthless

 

[NVR ENUF]

Could you tell me if the lights have DOT/SAE stamped anywhere on the lense? This way those of us that are getting harrassed here in BC with our JDM's have cheaper alternatives. Thanks.

As CSA mentioned, I'm sure they can put whatever they want on it overseas, even in downtown LA I bet! Well, the ad for mine says yes but trusting an ebay selller is just as worse! Like I mentioned, I'm going to connect the LED's underneath the lamps to the turn signals and when I do that, I will inspect the whole housing as well. Mot brought up a good point on sealing them as well for good measure, so I will be doing that too. Better safe than sorry.

100% BRAND NEW IN ORIGINAL BOX NEVER BEEN USED
91-97 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER PROJECTOR HEADLIGHTS
DUAL HALO
1-Piece Chrome Housing
PACKAGE COMES W/ SET OF HEADLIGHTS (LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE)
THESE HEADLIGHTS ARE MADE AS AN OE DIRECT REPLACEMENT
WITH NO MODIFICATION IS NEEDED FOR INSTALLATION
S.A.E. / D.O.T. APPROVAL










​

 

[NVR ENUF]

As for all the anti-asian market haters, I'm surprised your not a Chevy or Ford owner instead!

There was a similar thread awhile back asking about these same lights and all the haters came out of the woodwork criticizing which killed that thread quickly because most were intimidated to post or didnt' want to deal with the bashing. I was going to post on that thread but this one came up so I did so here and let the bashing commence. There should be no reason to ask or take something to a different direction just cause others have nothing better to do but talk smack. You'd get nowhere in life if you can't take the initiative.

 

[cary]

As for all the anti-asian market haters, I'm surprised your not a Chevy or Ford owner instead!

There was a similar thread awhile back asking about these same lights and all the haters came out of the woodwork criticizing which killed that thread quickly because most were intimidated to post or didnt' want to deal with the bashing. I was going to post on that thread but this one came up so I did so here and let the bashing commence. There should be no reason to ask or take something to a different direction just cause others have nothing better to do but talk smack. You'd get nowhere in life if you can't take the initiative.

Apparently you are having a bit of trouble with reading comprehension. No one ever said anything about hating Asian made or Asian market products. What has been said, is that this product is crap. It happens to be Chinese made crap, but they would have said the same thing if it was Japanese made crap, indian made crap, or american made crap.

People's experience with this product and others like it is the quality of the product is crappy. Sorry you don't like that but don't accuse them of asian bashing because the product stinks. Based on the light patterns I have seen posted of these products, the quality of the beam is poor and I presume the build quality isn't any better.

 

[NVR ENUF]

People's experience with this product and others like it is the quality of the product is ****py. Sorry you don't like that but don't accuse them of asian bashing because the product stinks.

First off, I'm not accusing that some are simply bashing asian products cause then I'd be guilty as well, cause I know there are some crappy stuff being made out there as well as here in the USA but you have to face the fact that some have put their 2 cents in not even seeing first hand anything about these lamps but being highly critical because it doesn't say "made in the USA" or meet their personal standards. It's just like a thread earlier where someone introduced themselves from FRance and all of a sudden it got political! What a damn shame! Where's the 80's brotherhood? Everyone has their own taste and should not force it onto others. I don't think this is what this forum is about but I'm sure someone will reply to this and say, "hey if you want to look like a ricer, go for it!" Frankly, the only thing I'm concerned about is whether the plastic will fade as everything thing else is fine with me. So those to be highly critical and haven't had any experience with these lamps to begin with including yourself does nothing to help others and as jaditom mentioned, "lets face it if you never used the product your oponion is almost worthless"

 

[61ihc]

yes i realize that any manufacturer can stamp SAE/DOT on anything and it may not be. The funny thing is that in BC it's more important to have that stamp on a shoddy product than it is to have a quality product without it. So when the time comes I'd like an inexpensive alternative to the lights I have now, which I really like by the way since they come with built in fog lamps but are RHD specific. So for those of you who have seen these lights or have them could you tell me if this is in fact stamped on the lense? pic would be good too if possible. thanks.

 

[cary]

First off, I'm not accusing that some are simply bashing asian products cause then I'd be guilty as well, cause I know there are some crappy stuff being made out there as well as here in the USA but you have to face the fact that some have put their 2 cents in not even seeing first hand anything about these lamps but being highly critical because it doesn't say "made in the USA" or meet their personal standards.

So those to be highly critical and haven't had any experience with these lamps to begin with including yourself does nothing to help others and as jaditom mentioned, "lets face it if you never used the product your oponion is almost worthless"

Umm, you said "for all the anti-asian market haters", your words, not mine. There was never any mention in the thread about US made parts (which for lamps IMHO would be questionable, quality lamps come from France, Germany & Japan).

I have seen more than enough evidence concerning the quality of the lamps to pass judgment. Posters have (kindly) put up pictures of their beams, and the quality of their beam leaves a great deal to be desired.

I also know that OEM quality projectors, like the Hella 90mm modules, run $60 a piece. This is for the modules only, not the housing. When it runs $240 for 4 quality modules, it is going to be impossible to offer modules, wiring, custom housings, bulbs, turn signal modules, and halo's, that have any semblance of quality for less. For a BMW the same type of Eurospec drop in housing with lamps from Hella runs $600+, while you can get the same crappy ebay lights like those that have been posted for $200. There is huge difference in quality and in this case, you get what you pay for.

Sorry, I don't need to have these things in my hand to know they are junk. In 5 years my OEM lamps will still be running strongly with no leaks, clouding or otherwise, the same can't be said of these.

Newer is not always better. Even though projector lamps and multireflector assemblies are neat, as with anything execution is still the most important element. Go get a pair of quality driving lights from 15+ years ago, i.e. Cibie Osrams or Hella 3000 lamps. These are old fashioned reflector lens lamps made from the highest quality parts. They still have far better beam quality and light control than all but the best quality modern lamps.

Finally, not to be a prick, but your prior comments have shown that you don't understand basic lighting (i.e. not understanding that blinding oncoming drivers is a function of beam pattern and cutoff, not bulb brightness and lamp efficiency). I'm not sure you even know if your PIAA lamps (which aren't very good lamps) are a fog, driving, or pencil beam. Do you understand that the PIAA bulbs are utter junk also? Given this lack of understanding, why should your "hands on" opinion be any better than the one's expressed here.

 

[jditom]

Now that this post is getting out of hand let me state some facts as I see them. Only two 80 owners have stated they bought them and both are happy with them. Many hate them with no experience or have ever seen them . To cheep must be crap? (compare German labor to Asian) By comparison I could say that Slee's light harness must be crap because it costs $41 and it should cost $80. In fact it is superb quality (PS Christo you could charge more).

Not to take any side here but real life experience we have 2 to 0. So now we need a few more brave souls to try them out and all of you to post some followup experience with them (good and bad)

Glad some of you guys don't work for the FDA
That was a joke

Can we now all get along.

 

[NVR ENUF]

Umm, you said "for all the anti-asian market haters", your words, not mine. There was never any mention in the thread about US made parts (which for lamps IMHO would be questionable, quality lamps come from France, Germany & Japan).

I have seen more than enough evidence concerning the quality of the lamps to pass judgment. Posters have (kindly) put up pictures of their beams, and the quality of their beam leaves a great deal to be desired.

Funny how the one who attacks me is the one I had no intention of offending. You have to be a fool not to think that most who have made negative comments on this thread and the other one about these lamps are mainly saying so simply because these lamps are made in China or some other Asian country, not because they have hands on experience with these actual lamps(though some may have but it wasn't necessary to be so harsh). If these lamps had "Made in Germany" on them, I guarantee you it would not be nearly as negative. You speak highly of OEM lamps but as some have mentioned and even I know that some OEM's will fade like the Ford's mentioned earlier and even the older BMW's have experienced fading. Twice, these threads came up about these lamps and haters quickly extiguished them, prompting some from even bothering to post I assume. I jumped on this thread to help a fellow Cruiser, not to just bash w/o experience. A friend of mine works for Mattell and we were talking about his job cause he has to fly to Germany and China often to oversee their plants there. He told me the toys coming from China are better made than the ones coming from Germany because the workers in China take their job more seriously because they really needed them even though they were getting less than half what the workers in Germany were. I guess better unions in Germany gave more of a laid back attitude for their workers. Anyhow, you can't always discount the little guy.

I also know that OEM quality projectors, like the Hella 90mm modules, run $60 a piece. This is for the modules only, not the housing. When it runs $240 for 4 quality modules, it is going to be impossible to offer modules, wiring, custom housings, bulbs, turn signal modules, and halo's, that have any semblance of quality for less. For a BMW the same type of Eurospec drop in housing with lamps from Hella runs $600+, while you can get the same ****py ebay lights like those that have been posted for $200. There is huge difference in quality and in this case, you get what you pay for

Part of the reason why they're so expensive is because they're made in Germany. I have 2 German cars and buying parts for them can cost you your firstborn but doesn't mean they're any better than the same parts made for American cars. Have you seen BMW & MBZ reliabilty record on Consumer Reports lately?? As some have mentioned, it's worth a try for such a cheap price and the prices you just mentioned, heck it really sounds like a deal if these lamps can hold their own. $200 is nothing compare to what some of you have spent on your rigs to get it to your liking. I wanted a more modern look and better lighting and IMO, I achieved both. Only time will tell now if these hold up well.

Newer is not always better. Even though projector lamps and multireflector assemblies are neat, as with anything execution is still the most important element. Go get a pair of quality driving lights from 15+ years ago, i.e. Cibie Osrams or Hella 3000 lamps. These are old fashioned reflector lens lamps made from the highest quality parts. They still have far better beam quality and light control than all but the best quality modern lamps.

True, I just wanted to update my old rig somewhat is all. My vehicle is over 10yrs old and these lights make it look newer. They don't even look blingy in person as they do in the pics posted on ebay. Once again, these were for my old rig. If I had a newer vehicle, I wouldn't even waste the money. I see these style lights on ebay for the 100 series as well and that is such a waste cause the 100's already have good lighting, unlike the stock 80's.

[/FONT]Finally, not to be a prick, but your prior comments have shown that you don't understand basic lighting (i.e. not understanding that blinding oncoming drivers is a function of beam pattern and cutoff, not bulb brightness and lamp efficiency). I'm not sure you even know if your PIAA lamps (which aren't very good lamps) are a fog, driving, or pencil beam. Do you understand that the PIAA bulbs are utter junk also? Given this lack of understanding, why should your "hands on" opinion be any better than the one's expressed here.

Hey, I know I'm no expert. That's why I'm here to learn as much as I can. See, I just learned another thing that PIAA's are AutoZone junk. As expensive as they are, I wish I had found this site before I bought mine even though AutoZones in my area don't carry them.
All I can do here is just post what I have to share with those who were interested.

 

[NVR ENUF]

There are at least 3-4 horizontal bars and 2 large vertical uprights blocking the light in NVR ENUF's photos. The garage door is right in front of the lights- I think this is causing some pattern irregularity in the photos.

NVR ENUFF, if you modify your LX450 grill, take some detail pics to see how it fits- thanks... and take off the brushguard!

FirstToy - You are absolutely right! This is exactly what is causing what some want to call "a fractured beam." I was talking to a mechanic at work and asked him what he knew about projector lamps. He said not much but asked why? I told him about a possible fractured beam my lights might have. He questioned of such a thing. Then he made a simple comment, "it's a projector lens right?" Remember how in grade school when the teacher would roll out the projector to watch a film, everyone would want to put their hands in front of it to cast a reflection? Your brush guard is doing just that since projectors shouldn't have any obstruction in front of it.
So when I came home tonight, I grabbed a pole about the same thickness of the guard and whaddya' know!

Now my fingers!

My thumbs up approval!! I work nights and took these pics before I checked my email and had I known I was going to be taking all this heat, I would've taken a pic of me giving the "BIRD" instead!

 

[NVR ENUF]

The fracturing of the beam is not a result of damage multiplier. That sharp of a cutoff is a direct result of the design of the lamp. Any interference from those little bars would have a dimming effect, but not a sharp cutoff.

See, even with all your expertise, you did not give the actual reason for that fractured beam being there simply because you don't actually have these lamps yourself. Had I not posted this, everyone and their mothers would think these lights have defective lamps.
Sure, these lamps might not be as superior as the $600 ones you mentioned but for me, I don't want to spend $600+ for lights. If that were my only option to get a modern looking projector lamp, I would've opted for the John Deere bulb. For $200, I'm willing to give them a shot and see how they do. If they turn to crap a year later, I will gladly post my findings to help another Cruiser out.

I shouldn't post these pics because it wouldn't do the lamps justice because these projectors shouldn't have anything obstructing them as my brush guard does, which is not allowing the lamps to function at it's fullest. But, here goes and I guess more bashing to follow.

low beams

HIGH BEAMS

 

[mot]

NVR ENUF,

Now you put back your stock/OEM headlights on and take identical pics in the same condition for comparison.

Mot

 

[cary]

Since we are trying to keep this thread on point, I'm going to post some images of what a high quality projector beam should look like. I know you (nvr enough) are happy with your beam, but looking at it objectively, it leaves a great deal to be desired, hot spotting and dark spots. As it ages and the lamp gets moisture and dust in it, it will get more noticable as output decreases. Notice how these lamps have no hot spotting, dim spots etc. Keep in mind that all the projector does is provide a sharp upper cutoff, it does not control the light below the cutoff point, that is still controlled by the lens and reflector.

The first two photos are of the Hella 90mm projector module low beam and then the matched low+high beam. The third photo is of Hoser's excellent Bosch based HID projector retrofit to his LX470.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=91642&highlight=hid+conversion

 

[cary]

Here is one more from Hoser's truck.

 

[Sage Fly Rods]

FTR i love mine over the stock. I drive up through emigration canyon alot at night (really dark) and I can 100% positively say I can see better with these than the stock in all weather conditions. The brights are what are really amazing. I could see so much further down the road than i could before which gives me alot more peace of mind because there are alot of deer in that area. The light pattern in the picture NVR enuf took is not what mine look like at all so I know that is caused by his brush guard. I'm still going through winter with no problems, and no moisture has gotten in. I sealed mine with caulk too. No one has ever flashed me. I think the quality is right up there with oem. Again i'm saying as far as visbility and light output and beam pattern they are better than stock. HIR bulbs in the stock ones might be the best option as far as best light output and visibility I don't know, but I got these because they were an upgrade from stock which is what I was looking for, they looked great, not only just the angel eyes but the black housing with the antique sage is awesome too, and they seem to be good quality. Plus in ten years I'll be able to put the stock ones back and they'll be mint. Cary/Cody, i'm sure you have great knowledge but if you've never seen or experienced it first hand you shouldn't be giving opinions about it, any knowledgeable person knows that.

 

[LX_TREME]

Mot San, Also Is it possible for you get these headlight under $200 include shipping and handling to CA?

IN YOUR DREAMS!

So can we work it out lil maybe

 

[Sage Fly Rods]

Since we are trying to keep this thread on point, I'm going to post some images of what a high quality projector beam should look like. I know you (nvr enough) are happy with your beam, but looking at it objectively, it leaves a great deal to be desired, hot spotting and dark spots. As it ages and the lamp gets moisture and dust in it, it will get more noticable as output decreases. Notice how these lamps have no hot spotting, dim spots etc. Keep in mind that all the projector does is provide a sharp upper cutoff, it does not control the light below the cutoff point, that is still controlled by the lens and reflector.

The first two photos are of the Hella 90mm projector module low beam and then the matched low+high beam. The third photo is of Hoser's excellent Bosch based HID projector retrofit to his LX470.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=91642&highlight=hid+conversion

BTW thats alot how mine look. I think NVR enuf is broken up because of brush guard but i'm sure he still sees great.

 

[IdahoDoug]

NVR,

I know it seems you're getting some negative feedback here, and I want you to know - very clearly - why I personally have concerns about the light pattern. I'm not criticizing the look, which I actually find attractive, nor the quality of assembly or dust resistance as only miles and years will tell that.

And thanks for the work looking at your beam pattern again with the hand, etc. The specific concern I have with the beam pattern is the same as before the hand pictures. See in your original garage door shot where there's an elongated dark triangle starting at the center of each beam and widening as it goes outboard? That's an incredible beam pattern error - a dark spot that's not getting direct illumination. To me, that's a grievous oversight by the light's designer because it creates illumination on the road that has darker and lighter areas. That was not caused by the grill guard, and it is still clearly visible on your newer garage door shots with your hand there. It tells me in capital letters that the lamp was so casually designed that the maker never even bothered to look at the actual light pattern on a wall before cranking up production. From my experience, what they did was use the same mask (the thick glass thing in a PES lamp like yours that shapes the beam pattern) in your lights as they did in every other version they sell. They don't customize these - can't afford to - they just attempt to re-use the guts in as many outer assemblies as they think they can sell for various auto models. No surprise at these prices. I've seen this before - a buddy of mine did exactly what you did on his new Tahoe against my recommendation and they are now sitting in a box in his garage after a month of use.

In these same newer shots on the garage door do you see the wavy vertically oriented patterns in the bottom half of the beams? More uneven lighting and again not caused by the grille guard which has horizontal bars.

I'm not an automotive lighting expert because that is a science and field all to itself. But I am a lifelong automotive lighting enthusiast and spent a career developing automobiles with GM, Toyota and Lexus. And I want you to know that those are clear evidence of low quality optics that would never be accepted by any automaker due to laws preventing it. There are standardized lighting tests for patterns and evenness that these would not pass.

Looking at the patterns farther off where you are pointed out onto the street, note how there are two clear bright lines on the street coming from each lamp that look like someone's holding two flashlights. Those are called 'hot spots' and both use the available lumens very inefficiently from a power standpoint, and cause eyestrain and eye fatigue from an ergonomic standpoint. You should only see patterns like that on a type of light called a pencil beam, which is a specialized racing lamp. BTW, your lights are pointed toward each other too much as you can see these hot spots converging a bit.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but now that you've brought back pictures of what you think are good light patterns I could not let others here who don't perhaps have a background in lighting think that these are good. I sincerely want you to know I'm not posting this as an affront to you, but more as a service to others here.

Contrast your patterns to the smooth even lighting in the pictures Cary showed. That's excellent lighting. No hotspots, broad patterns of even and bright light - just what you want to drive behind for hours of fatigue-free motoring.

So, hope this comes off as intended - a dispassionate but technically correct comparison of your patterns to some excellent ones. It's like everything else in life - you get what you pay for.

DougM

 

[MikePL]

NVR, all you can do now is put the OEM headlights and sell the projectors. You need to find a dummy who will buy them. I can be that dummy if you want. LOL

 

[NVR ENUF]

Cary and ID - I definitely will agree with you that these projectors are not as high quality as OEM projectors. Later this week, if time permits, I will compare the OEM projectors on our E350 which IIRC are Bosch and the OEM projectors on the new Camry's on my exact garage door so we can examine these more closely. The elongated triangle you're speaking of is definitely caused by the brush guard and not the lamp. When I was making reflections with my hands the other night, I clearly put my fingers where those dark spots are and I touched the guards. There is no doubt in my mind that if these lamps were aimed evenly, you would see an exact reflection of the brush guard bars. I will agree about the vertical patterns though. I think the fact that these lamps are brighter than stock over compensates this defect. The one thing I noticed taking pics of the beams with my phone camera was that it vividly shows the beams as if Scotty was trying to beam me up into the Enterprise. To the naked eye, that beam is not nearly as focused as the pic reveals but you can see it. Once again, it's due to the inferior projector pattern. I took out the Canon last night but was too sleepy to post them but here they are now. You can still see the beam but in those phone pics, they appear overly exaggerated. But first, I went to Hoser's thread on HID retrofit and thanks for pointing that out, Cary. I never bother going into the 100's forum. Very interesting thread, especially since I thought about retrofitting these lamps later on but when I went out to look at mine afterwards, it does not allow you to remove the projector lamps, only the high beams. HID's will pretty much blow any lighting out of the water so I definitely wouldn't want to compare these lamps to those.

Here is a pic of Hoser's projectors before the retro.

This might not be a good pic since it could be aided by the streetlamps but the dead area I wanted to go to was closed off for some reason.

So I just pointed the lamps into an open field.

Now on the drive back home.

This is a bad one cause I was still moving a bit when I quickly decided to take a pic. I just wanted to show how bright these lights are.

I'm tempted to break my back and remove the brush guard to prove my theory that the elongated triangle is indeed being caused by it and because I'd like to see how much better the view will be with these lamps w/o any obstruction and as in the finger pics showed, these lamps are easily distorted with obstruction but I doubt anybody will be doing any driving with someone's hand in the way.lol

The positives on these lamps is that for an inexpensive alternative, you can get a stylish modern look and brighter lighting than stock.

The negatives is your getting what you pay for, an inferior projector lamp.

I will report in the future whether I still have these lamps or put them back on ebay or burned them out back!lol When I connect the LED's to the turn signals(blinking LED's look cool!), I will be sealing them for good measure. I really feel comfortable driving with these lamps and my only concern will be whether the plastic housing over the lenses will fade over time but as past OEM's have shown, they most likely will. Just driving thru my work's parking lot, I see a bunch of faded OEM plastic lenses. I was getting the paper this morning and started talking to my neighbor and noticed the lense has badly faded on her RX300 but the funny thing is, only the driver side is faded. Don't know if she spilled somthing on it or what. As long as the plastic does not fade, these lamps will stay on my rig, plus I can't go back anyhow since I already sold my OEM's!