crew cab 45 TOYOTONA

[leafsprung]

Im kinda surprised at the folks making excuses for this guy. Let him make his own excuses. He obviously posts here, why doesn't he man up and face the music. Clearly he knows there is a discrepancy between what Scott was expecting and what he provided. The guy has obviously been in the cruiser community (and frequented this website) long enough to know the difference between good and garbage. He is not some ignorant backwoods panamanian hillbilly (or am I giving him too much credit?)

Having said that, Scott should have asked for some better pictures of this thing before dropping 30+K of someone else's dough on it. If you are responsible for building a custom vehicle for someone, its up to you to determine the quality of the parts you order or recommend they order. A little homework would have gone a long way toward preventing disappointment. Scott seems like a nice guy and I really look forward to meeting him soon (so I hope he doesnt take offense to this)

Its a bummer this had to spoil such a cool project. Sounds like it will turn out in the end and I look forward to seeing it come together.

 

[goldchaser]

Common sense tells me with the amount of work done on that truck by the seller WTF wouldn't you finish off the welds properly and as he was going along attend to any rust as well,that should of been just part of the progress,$30k US isn't a drop in the pan.

Also looks like a lack of communication prior to payment,as the other bloke says not enough photos?

Hey crushers, if you wanted a truck like that you say you'd drop him $30k up,man i can see the pool of sweat next to your keyboard as your wiring the money to him.

 

[crushers]

i was not inebriated or high on myself when i made the post.

as i stated in my post, IF i wanted a 4 door similar to this one on the thread, i would drop $30 and some more. the builder has the talent but he is also new at building for others.

curious, if the job is so easy why did Eco-Offroad LLC not just build his customer this rig himself?
i would be guessing he took one look and realized that he couldn't build a similar for that price and make a profit. he bought the unit on faith and found out about the frame. then he realized he couldn't supply a frame and do the finishing touches for the budget his customer had. it embarrassed him in front of his customer so to save face he decides to post up pics of missing spot welds. (and a not acceptable rust POS frame)

to do this job properly would cost a lot more Stateside. simple as that. he received what he paid for.

lets be straight here, i am not defending false advertising. if the seller said rust free frame then he should be sourcing a frame for replacement. BUT the tub alone is worth the $30K invested (even with the missing spot welds).

he now has a good base to build a wicked one-of-a-kind ride from.

since obviously you are an expert, take another look at the hour and dollar figures in my original post and show me where i am wrong.

why not post up what YOU will build this tub for? maybe you can score some more business.

 

[leafsprung]

Wayne,
I don't think the cost to build at some other shop is any more relevant than the cost to build by NASA. Things could always be worse/more expensive. It may be a consolation prize that it wasn' more, but let's be honest, the product wasn't as described and the guy doesn't stand behind his work.

 

[kling-on]

That equates to about $26,692.12 U.S. dollars. Toyota fit and finish and only importable to the U.S. as parts/kit.

BUT the tub alone is worth the $30K invested (even with the missing spot welds)....

how do you figure when a complete truck can be had for less ??? and I bet the "bad fit and finish" on that one is still better ...

 

[Eco 45]

Moving forward.....

As they say “hind sight is always 20 20”. Looking back on things or at someone else’s judgment is always easier than facing the decision at that one moment. There used to be a time when a man’s word or his handshake was something to be trusted and you didn’t have to questions every single little detail about an item. Unfortunately today it is first talk to you attorney, then get a DNA sample, then Google the individual—if all this checks out have your attorney right a binding agreement that states you take whatever item that is presented. However, there still are a lot of mainly older individuals whom try to trust the “handshake” and it is a methodology I try to operate on. I won’t make excuses for other individual’s actions, why can’t they defend themselves? I posted in this forum to warn others about a product that did not match its description. Where would all those individuals have been that were warned about Vintage Offroad? Probably driving a vehicle they wished they never bought. For me it is about the enjoyment of seeing these older trucks back on the road and I am pretty sure that is one of the main reason this forum got started. Cruisers bring many different individuals together from different walks of life’s and experiences---it is nice to have a place to gather information that is both helpful and informative. Bickering leads nowhere and usually causes resentment. I will be starting a new thread with the build of this vehicle and hopefully the mediators’ will delete this one.

 

[crushers]

so you ignore the question...
what would it cost to have YOU build this 4 door tub? would you build it for $30K?

i guess i understand what you were getting at, a warning to others.

what set me off is when someone posts up you can get a Mint Restoration for $30K and this was a POS. my original post was directed mainly at that comment. you can NOT do a mint restoration for $30K. you can do a veneer job for that price. which lead to the value of the 4 door tub.

i do not know of ANY shop that can produce that tub for $30K. i know my hourly rate would push it to almost double the cost. i am sure your rate would also.

the frame is disgusting, i did not see the front clip so that is irrevelant. the missing spot welds is no "oh my good, what a POS".

as for the builder, after the comments in this thread, do you REALLY expect him to speak up? he would be torn to ribbons as soon as he did.

best of luck in the finishing of the build, i suspect it will turn out a beautiful ride in the end.

 

[leafsprung]

so you ignore the question...
what would it cost to have YOU build this 4 door tub? would you build it for $30K?

Who cares what he would charge to build it. I might charge a million bucks to build a laptop from scratch; that doesnt mean if I buy one for a grand I dont expect it to work.

after the comments in this thread, do you REALLY expect him to speak up?

Hell yes. I would expect him to speak up. There would be nothing to talk about if he had replied to Scott in the first place. Everyone makes mistakes, but making some effort to make it right at least means you care. If you do nothing, you must not care and thus deserve the reputation and derision you have earned. This guy doesnt want to face the music. nuff said.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Jumping in out of the blue here - and a little off tack but...


Is this not the Paul from Panama Pilgrim who now owns the Heritage Sheet Metal hard tooling that came originally from the Brazilian 40 series production line? CCOT hawks his stuff (or old stock Heritage stuff) right? Or am I combining rumors and making schtuff up?

I would expect some kind of effort from any business to address the situation. Several months have passed and I see no effort to appease the largest portion of his client base which is here on Mud. We need reassurance that he gives a crap what we think. Where else is he gonna find people to buy old Landcruiser body parts but here?

Even just a non-committal "we are in contact with the buyer and are addressing the situation" would go a long way.

That may be too little too late at this point.


As for costing 30k - I'd make one for that price - you find the frame and donor cabs and ship them to me. In fact I plan on doing that for my next build. I want to do that to my current build but I am trying to stay with my original plan.


Kevin

 

[crushers]

ummm, i care? or is that a question that isn't allowed to be asked here?

Who cares what he would charge to build it. I might charge a million bucks to build a laptop from scratch; that doesnt mean if I buy one for a grand I dont expect it to work.



Hell yes. I would expect him to speak up. There would be nothing to talk about if he had replied to Scott in the first place. Everyone makes mistakes, but making some effort to make it right at least means you care. If you do nothing, you must not care and thus deserve the reputation and derision you have earned. This guy doesnt want to face the music. nuff said.

 

[crushers]

yes, it would be nice if the original poster would respond.

you misunderstand, he sourced the parts and fabricated it up for $30K. you work for cheap if you can invest the time into that build for $30K. maybe i should send you my 75 series and get you to do the extension for a proper 4 door. $30K for labor on it would be a steal of a deal for me.
i will be in Calgary in a couple weeks, we can chat then over Pizza at Atlas with the boys...

BTW, i have seen some pics of your work. BEAUTIFUL, i would like to see it in person if you don't mind.

Jumping in out of the blue here - and a little off tack but...


Is this not the Paul from Panama Pilgrim who now owns the Heritage Sheet Metal hard tooling that came originally from the Brazilian 40 series production line? CCOT hawks his stuff (or old stock Heritage stuff) right? Or am I combining rumors and making schtuff up?

I would expect some kind of effort from any business to address the situation. Several months have passed and I see no effort to appease the largest portion of his client base which is here on Mud. We need reassurance that he gives a crap what we think. Where else is he gonna find people to buy old Landcruiser body parts but here?

Even just a non-committal "we are in contact with the buyer and are addressing the situation" would go a long way.

That may be too little too late at this point.


As for costing 30k - I'd make one for that price - you find the frame and donor cabs and ship them to me. In fact I plan on doing that for my next build. I want to do that to my current build but I am trying to stay with my original plan.


Kevin

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Sure - but I don't have much here right now. Just bits and pieces cuz I shipped the bed I made to the customer. I'm working on another one for Cameron (you worked on his LV a while ago). He just wants the parts as he has someone else in mind to assemble it. I'm working on my rig now.

Kevin

 

[crushers]

Cameron is a super good guy.
i also found his PZJ77 for him.

that is quite the old 45LV he has...

 

[merbesfield]

Updates?

 

[KillerPea]

Has this issue had any resolution?? There is a thread about a group buy of Pilgrim parts, and he has contacted a member or two about doing restorations. It would be interesting to hear if the parties involved have at least spoken.

 

[Eco 45]

Has this issue had any resolution?? QUOTE]

The polite answer would be NO!

About the only thing I heard from Paul was his laughter as he headed for the bank.

For all those considering buying parts from this individual a few things to take into consideration.

*The stamp/ press work is great
*welds are mediocre some are usable and other need to be redone
*avoid an item that comes with a frame unless you intend to rebuild 80% of it.
* some items have alignment issues.

In all reality if you needed a part from this individual I would purchase it in bare metal so you can see what needs to be addressed before paint is applied. Unfortunately, some of the South/Central Americans have a talent in making things look pretty with a heavy coat of bondo. As I have seen on many different Land Rovers, Land Cruisers and other unique vehicles that have been imported from the south. It would be nice if we could all fly down in person to parts of South/Central America to do an inspection of a vehicle, but in reality a lot of people have to go by the honesty of the seller and photos they send and hope for the best. There are bad body shops everywhere in the world, but foreign markets know that Americans have the funds (or at least had the funds before the economy died) and will pay for something that looks presentable. I have seen it time and again were someone buys a beautiful vehicles that gives them immediate gratification but down the road they have an "OH MY GOD" moment when something important falls off.

Unfortunately I am speaking from experience on the above matter.

 

[crushers]

ummm, branding all South Americans with the same brush is a bit harsh. remember North Americans have been doing the same for decades when it comes to bondo and paint.

 

[Eco 45]

Crushers if you wish to go off again as you did in the past please save it for the chat section. Please don't put words into others mouths or go about assuming things.

I am trying to participate in this thread to help others whom are considering their options of where to source certain items and what to expect.

 

[crushers]

then keep the slander out of your comments. there were no words put into anyones mouth.

this is fullfills your desires:
For all those considering buying parts from this individual a few things to take into consideration.

*The stamp/ press work is great
*welds are mediocre some are usable and other need to be redone
*avoid an item that comes with a frame unless you intend to rebuild 80% of it.
* some items have alignment issues.

all very good advice, the rest is assumptions and slander.

 

[RustyNailJustin]

ummm, branding all South Americans with the same brush is a bit harsh. remember North Americans have been doing the same for decades when it comes to bondo and paint.

Hows this for to harsh... Your Dumb!
I have been sitting on the sidelines until your comment. Bikerso has been more than decent in all his comments. Get a life!