Crazy diff carnage.....but ok 5.29s somehow

[ExpoMax]

So a few days ago my front diff started clicking. Drained it a few times and kept getting lots of metal in the oil. The last time I drained it I actually had a bold stuck in the drain that I thought was super odd.

Five bolts that hold the ring gear to the arb all backed out and preceded to jack my housing and arb locker. Absolutely insane that my whole diff didnt grenade because it got driven a good week like this.

 

[ExpoMax]

 

[ExpoMax]

 

[ExpoMax]

Only see one tiny imperfection on the ring gear

 

[LandCruisinMy93]

That is crazy.

 

[baldilocks]

Why is this crazy? The ring gear bolts backed out because they were not properly torqued, simple as that. The bolts are too large to migrate in between the gear teeth but did get jambed up here and there.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Agree. Who installed your ARB?

I'd check the case of the ARB for runout too and make sure it can be re-used.

You are very lucky it didn't just lock up.

 

[OffRoadScott]

I saw this yesterday on his build thread. I would be pissed off, especially if you paid good money for it to be installed correctly.

I have heard horror stories about a shop I was about to drop some money with to do my lift, but I think I am going to take it elsewhere after hearing some of the issues.

Doing research does pay off. Even if you have to pay a little more in the long run at least you know it is done right the first time.

 

[bajaphile]

I see Zuk scribed in the ring gear, which he probably set up.. but not necessarily the ARB. He has a good reputation in the Toyota world for differential work.

 

[Qball]

I see Zuk scribed in the ring gear, which he probably set up.. but not necessarily the ARB. He has a good reputation in the Toyota world for differential work.

I see zuk and 6/13/17 which is quite recent, I'm guessing zuk did both the gear and locker. It would only make sense unless OP would want to go through the trouble to tear out the third twice in a year.

 

[ExpoMax]

I see zuk and 6/13/17 which is quite recent, I'm guessing zuk did both the gear and locker. It would only make sense unless OP would want to go through the trouble to tear out the third twice in a year.

I talked to ZUK this morning. He definitely torqued them correctly based on all of the pictures I received. But never less he is having me send it back to him for a thorough inspection and rebuild.

 

[ExpoMax]

His notes from his previous install.

 

[TurboDennis]

I guess Mr. T knew what he was doing when he decided to use metal clips with the tabs for retaining the ring gear bolts instead of locktite. Who wouldve thought?

Why a respected gear installer would doubt the engineers that determined that those clips are NECESSARY is beyond me.

 

[mr jits]

I guess Mr. T knew what he was doing when he decided to use metal clips with the tabs for retaining the ring gear bolts instead of locktite. Who wouldve thought?

Why a respected gear installer would doubt the engineers that determined that those clips are NECESSARY is beyond me.

Probably because said gear installer has installed gears on hundreds, if not thousands of carriers without issue.
On another note, my friends ARB had the ring gear bolts back out. One was missing entirely (as in it was not in the housing to be found), and all were loose enough to be taken out by hand. Installer was certain that all surfaces were clean and loctite in place.

 

[TurboDennis]

Probably because said gear installer has installed gears on hundreds, if not thousands of carriers without issue.
On another note, my friends ARB had the ring gear bolts back out. One was missing entirely (as in it was not in the housing to be found), and all were loose enough to be taken out by hand. Installer was certain that all surfaces were clean and loctite in place.

That may be, but the fact remains - Toyota uses plenty of locktite throughout the truck, and they determined that locktite is not enough in that particular spot. With the metals clips, OP's issue would've never happened. The clips cost few dollars for the set, and can actually be reused (at least once, if you're cheap). They take an extra 2-3 minutes to put on. Why not use them?

 

[mr jits]

That may be, but the fact remains - Toyota uses plenty of locktite throughout the truck, and they determined that locktite is not enough in that particular spot. With the metals clips, OP's issue would've never happened. The clips cost few dollars for the set, and can actually be reused (at least once, if you're cheap). They take an extra 2-3 minutes to put on. Why not use them?

Have you ever installed gears? Are you a mechanic by trade?
In all seriousness, I've never removed a ring gear on a toyota 3rd (in fairness, I've only done about ten of them) and had a bolt that was remotely loose (on a third that wasn't experiencing issues). I don't attribute this to the little clips that "hold" the bolts together, as in reality all those clips are doing is preventing the bolt from backing out. That being said, I have seen bolts back out of two different thirds that had the retaining clips in place. They are not an end all be all solution to keeping the bolts retained.
I think loctite is a more than adequate solution (there are not bolt retainers on dana 60's, 70's, 14 bolts, etc) for holding the ring gear to the carrier when properly torqued and the bolts and threads were properly cleaned.
My personal curiosity has me wondering how long the loctite was allowed to set before installation and submersion in oil, or if Zuk had forgotten (or perhaps he doesn't use) loctite?

 

[nukegoat]

Could also be bad fasteners in the install kit.

 

[joez]

Could also be bad fasteners in the install kit.

I have had that once, and I also have had a bad ring gear on one install. 5.29's, and on the final torque I had the last two bolts strip before ever reaching spec. I ran back through them, and had almost half of them pull out within 5 lbs of torque. A couple heat cycles and guess what would have occurred?

Things happen.

 

[TurboDennis]

Have you ever installed gears? Are you a mechanic by trade?
In all seriousness, I've never removed a ring gear on a toyota 3rd (in fairness, I've only done about ten of them) and had a bolt that was remotely loose (on a third that wasn't experiencing issues). I don't attribute this to the little clips that "hold" the bolts together, as in reality all those clips are doing is preventing the bolt from backing out. That being said, I have seen bolts back out of two different thirds that had the retaining clips in place. They are not an end all be all solution to keeping the bolts retained.
I think loctite is a more than adequate solution (there are not bolt retainers on dana 60's, 70's, 14 bolts, etc) for holding the ring gear to the carrier when properly torqued and the bolts and threads were properly cleaned.
My personal curiosity has me wondering how long the loctite was allowed to set before installation and submersion in oil, or if Zuk had forgotten (or perhaps he doesn't use) loctite?

I do a lot of Toyota gear installs for local guys here. Mostly on 4runners/Tacomas, but have done a bunch of LC ones as well.

I agree that the bolt retaining clips are an overkill, and are probably not necessary in majority of the cases. However it would really suck to be that rare case when they were indeed needed and not used(like the OP here). Im not sure if he ended up reusing the ARB case and the gears, but either way that's a very expensive repair for something that could've been prevented by using the original retaining clips.
As I've said earlier, it adds almost no cost/time to the install and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to use them.
To be fair, i've never installed the ARB case into one of these, and it looks like the design of the case would prevent the original clips from being used (as the back side of the case where the bolts go into is not flat enough)

You said that you've seen 2 thirds where the bolts backed out with the retaining clips in place. It must've been a different design, because i dont understand how it can possibly happen on one of these diffs. The bolts are held in place by tabs that bend around the head of the bolt. There is just no way the bolts can back out, as they are physically locked from turning by the tabs.

In my personal opinion, what happened in OP's case was that the threads on the ring gear were not thoroughly cleaned. There was probably some oil left in there which prevented locktite from sticking to them.
When i install these, i always boil the ring gear in water for a few minutes (after degreasing it thoroughly with brake cleaner).

 

[mr jits]

I do a lot of Toyota gear installs for local guys here. Mostly on 4runners/Tacomas, but have done a bunch of LC ones as well.

I agree that the bolt retaining clips are an overkill, and are probably not necessary in majority of the cases. However it would really suck to be that rare case when they were indeed needed and not used(like the OP here). Im not sure if he ended up reusing the ARB case and the gears, but either way that's a very expensive repair for something that could've been prevented by using the original retaining clips.
As I've said earlier, it adds almost no cost/time to the install and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to use them.
To be fair, i've never installed the ARB carrier into one of these, and it looks like the design of the carrier would prevent the original clips from being used (as the back side of the carrier where the bolts go into is not flat enough)

You said that you've seen 2 thirds where the bolts backed out with the retaining clips in place. It must've been a different design, because i dont understand how it can possibly happen on one of these diffs. The bolts are held in place by tabs that bend around the head of the bolt. There is just no way the bolts can back out, as they are physically locked from turning by the tabs.

In my personal opinion, what happened in OP's case was that the threads on the ring gear were not thoroughly cleaned. There was probably some oil left in there which prevented locktite from sticking to them.
When i install these, i always boil the ring gear in water for a few minutes (after degreasing it thoroughly with brake cleaner).

Where I've seen the bolts back out was after a regear and people reused the original bolt retainers. Back out is a misnomer on my part. The bolts were loose (finger tight on a couple) and the retainer still in place.
I tend to bake the ring gear for a while after being cleaned with brakleen before installing the ring gear to the carrier (makes the fit up easier and gets rid of extra grease.