reducers from 1-5/8" to 1-1/2" are readily avaliable. The problem might be the fan shroud mounting points and dealing with retrofitting a custom shroud that works.....
Cooling issues with CSF 2517 - what temp does your rig's A/C shut off? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rbdave
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The replacement lower hose (that I'm still using) that I got requires me to double clamp the engine side because it's slightly larger than an OEM Toyota hose. That might work for you. I don't mind since instead of using the radiator drain, I'll just pull the lower hose at the engine and drain it there. Usually don't have to bust it loose and it's faster, but the caveat is: you got to be quick not to get scalded if doing with a hot engine...lol
interesting....i am at a cross road....go with a custom radiator that cost 8x more $$$
or....go with the TYC from Amazon..$140, retrofit a 93+ fan shroud, $80, a few custom hoses....still have left over to spare for other upgrades...
i am sold...
which lower hose did you go with? BTW. is the 1fz-fe lower hose a reducer from 1-5/8" to 1.5" to engine bay???
or....go with the TYC from Amazon..$140, retrofit a 93+ fan shroud, $80, a few custom hoses....still have left over to spare for other upgrades...
i am sold...
which lower hose did you go with? BTW. is the 1fz-fe lower hose a reducer from 1-5/8" to 1.5" to engine bay???
I'm very glad to hear you have realized better cooling performance. There are certainly conditions where one radiator type is superior to another. It would be helpful if your gains had been recorded in actual degrees rather than needle position on the factory gauge...but even so...your results are empirical evidence of improvement.
One thing I would like to clear up though is the notion that 'current' coolants are designed to 'benefit' aluminum radiators and other parts. And the suggestion that 'todays' coolants do not help copper.
I will address the later claim first: There are a number of different coolant 'types' available (today, right now) that contain different corrosion inhibitors. PH buffers and other additives. The reason for this is that both older and modern engines use different metals that will be in contact with the coolant or have dis-similar metals in actual contact with one another. Picking the correct coolant for your system is important. It is sometimes erroneously suggested that there is only one type of antifreeze out there (today's coolants).
The coolants designed to 'help' prevent corrosion (galvanic) of aluminum radiators can hardly be thought of as 'benefiting' it (in the sense it enhances the metal). They are designed for a very specific reason. To 'protect' (not enhance/benefit) the aluminum.
Aluminum on a Galvanic Scale is right at the top. Only a few other common metals (Beryllyium, Zinc and Magnesium) are more Anodic. Aluminum is one of the least 'noble' metals there is. Meaning under certain conditions...it will corrode faster than the others, unless measures are taken to prevent it.
Copper is a highly 'noble' metal by comparison. Even the Lead/Tin solder used in most Copper/Brass radiators is vastly more noble than aluminum. But the metals contained in this type radiator also need 'protection' and there are coolants designed for that.
BOTH radiator types will corrode. The trouble occurs when you have dis-similar metals in contact with one another or are joined by solution (antifreeze).
Unless you have an ALL aluminum engine to go along with your all aluminum radiator...then galvanic corrosion needs to be attenuated.
One of the most important (and most often neglected) things you can do for your cooling system is to flush it at regular intervals and refill with fresh coolant of a type required for your vehicle. Coolants break down and the PH of the coolant is critical to prevent corrosion.
As for Automobile manufacturers not using copper/brass radiators anymore: That is a fact too plain to require argument.
But...we should consider the reasons why. It is NOT because Aluminum conducts heat better than copper, it does not. IF it were possible to build a Copper/Brass radiator in the same configuration...it would easily out-cool the Aluminum one.
Aluminum is used for the following reasons:
1. The radiator can be made from one homogeneous material.
2. Aluminum being a stronger metal can have wider (therefore fewer tubes and fins). A copper/brass radiator with similar cooling capacity will need to have more tubing and fins.
3. Lower cost of material.
4. Less weight (dramatically less weight).
The advantages of Aluminum over Copper from a manufacturing standpoint are huge and it simply makes no sense to do otherwise.
So...the 'Best' radiator you can put in any vehicle (modern) would be an ALL aluminum unit (no stinking plastic or crimped seals, etc).
And not to cast aside the Copper/Brass radiators, many folks (I am one) have no trouble with them. They were 'good enough' for most vehicles under most conditions for at least a hundred years. But...some conditions require something better. So just consider your needs and choose accordingly.
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Company name and/or link please. Ron Davis?
Ron Davis aluminum radiators for racing, offroad, performance street car, and other custom applications
Part Number 1-4516407 is $1069.00 plus shipping
i know its steep..but seems like every bit of an upgrade on the 80s is about $1000+
Wow, you're testing my ROF memory. I believe when I replaced the OEM radiator with the CSF, I used a NAPA hose, since the closet Toyota dealer is a 3 hr drive (in good weather). So whatever the NAPA book said for size is what I used. Also, the lower hose in a 1FZ comes in 2 parts because for part of the distance, a metal tube exists. So you actually have, in sequence starting at radiator: Radiator, rubber hose, metal hose section, 2nd rubber hose, then the engine (thermostat housing). Not familiar with 3FE setup so hope this is not confusing.
BTW, ROF stands for retired old fart...lol.
^^^^^ Hah. I'll have to add that to my list of acronyms. I am one...too.
I replaced my lower hoses with NAPA units as well. Pretty sure they gave me 'Gates' brand hoses. Good thick parts.
LMAO...thats funny
Well the 3-FE is exactly the same, a 90 degree bend to a hard pipe from the lower, then a short section to the water pump, and they are all 1.5" ID
so perhaps the best way to retrofit the TYC radiator is to possibly find a hose reducer from 1-5/8" to 1.5" in a 90.....in a perfect world.
I ran the CSF 2517 for two years and just removed it a few days ago. I see it as a well built radiator that fit perfectly, but with my temps climbing to 205+ while doing nothing more than driving down a flat highway with the AC on in 90-95 degree outside temp, I had to try something else. This radiator worked well on the trail with a modded black hub fan clutch and adequately on days when i did not run the AC. Climbing mountains on the pavement even on days in the 50-70 degree range would send my digital temp gauge to 210 easily. A year ago we took a 4,000 mile tip around the west and I had to pull over a few times and engage the hand throttle to let her cool off. I did this once it surpassed 220 degrees.
I ordered a "foreign made" all aluminum radiator recently that was given a favorable review by another Mud member. It appeared to be of decent quality for the price I paid but its dimensions were off and i didn't feel like dealing with more modifications so, I will send it back. I was warned of this exact issue with these low cost "performance" radiators by @Tools R Us.
I just can't see spending the big bucks on a Ron Davis so i ordered a radiator from Toyota discounted online under the assumption that it is the best I can get of the radiators with plastic tanks, which i don't really like. After much research, I came to the conclusion that, although some have had good luck with other brand, cheaper plastic radiators, quality control where these units are made is loose resulting in very inconsistent reviews from the American masses that were attracted by the low cost. Time always tells the story.
I ordered a "foreign made" all aluminum radiator recently that was given a favorable review by another Mud member. It appeared to be of decent quality for the price I paid but its dimensions were off and i didn't feel like dealing with more modifications so, I will send it back. I was warned of this exact issue with these low cost "performance" radiators by @Tools R Us.
I just can't see spending the big bucks on a Ron Davis so i ordered a radiator from Toyota discounted online under the assumption that it is the best I can get of the radiators with plastic tanks, which i don't really like. After much research, I came to the conclusion that, although some have had good luck with other brand, cheaper plastic radiators, quality control where these units are made is loose resulting in very inconsistent reviews from the American masses that were attracted by the low cost. Time always tells the story.
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IIRC, the metal to rad hose is longer and more bent on the 3FE, so the 1FZ hose isn't going to work. Pretty simple hose, so if you have FLAPS that will let you behind the counter with the 3FE hose, finding one that will work should be doable.
this is exactly what i am going thru right now. the CSF is adequate for a mall crawler or someone just commute around town, possibly a stock rig with no added weight and larger tires, armors, etc. But for the majority of us who regularly wheels in moderate climate that requires getting to the trailhead via fireroads or highway passes, the CSF unit is just not up to par with keeping up with the added stress of the motor and higher RPM...At this point, i might just take the plunge and go with the big daddy Ron Davis and deal with this issue once and for all and never have to worry about running past 215 on a hot day up the passes and fireroads. My time is money and i cheap insurance to keep my motor going for another 100k plus....
Are you speaking about the 91 in your signature? I didn't realize there was an issue keeping the 3fe cool. It would be nice if you post up your temp results as a comparison after you have been running the Ron Davis.
Yes, my 91 in my sig.
i dont have solid numbers before my radiator swap as i am purely went by the idiot gauge and before the stock radiator blew, i had never experienced overheating even with stock fan clutch. With the CSF, new clutch and 15k fluid and new thermostat, and a good seal around the shroud and radiator, i am having experienced temp ceep past 220 3 times now, to a point i had to nurse the motor back down to 210 range.. Normal temp on highway @ 65-70mph with AC should never get over 200 IMO on a 95 degree in Socal, and i am @ 205-210 already with very little room for when i go up highway passes or hill cimbs, and not long before my temp hits 220+
I agree completely that your temps are unacceptable. What I can't reconcile is that I have the same radiator (for about 4 years now) operating under the same temps (90-105°F ambient) at roughly the same altitude (for most of SoCal)...I am at 300' and I don't have cooling issues. I run between 190-195 on the highway with A/C on. I also have a modded fan clutch (20K cst) and an Aux fan on my A/C condenser...so we aren't too dissimilar there.
I have never questioned the trouble that those who have posted here have had using the 2517...its just bewildering that some do and some don't. I would fully expect to see elevated temps at high altitude in extreme heat and under slow, off-road conditions (most of the guys in Arizona). But just going down the highway...?
Surely...there is more to it than just the design? Perhaps a bad run of radiators, recent cost cutting changes...I don't know. I've been happy with mine and I push it pretty hard at times towing. Might get the temp up to 208° F or so towing uphill, but it very quickly recovers.
Anyway, I hope you get the issue sorted out...I completely understand your concerns and would do the same if I were in that position.
The factory gauge, as you mentioned, has the RT mod and has been found to be fairly accurate over the years, since it was 1st posted.
Since when is "protect" not considered to be a benefit? Never said "enhance". I get it that there's more than just one type of antifreeze available, but we're talking 1FZ and 3FE here. Some with copper as their OEM radiator. And I do regular maintenance on my cooling system. I use the Prestone green which is one of the more readily available antifreeze/coolants.
I really don't think you've made much of an argument to continue to use a copper radiator. "Some conditions"??? How about: Some modifications owners have made have caused the copper radiator's performance to fall below the expectations of the owners. I don't know about you, but I'll trade a reasonable upgrade in my cooling sytem maintenance schedule for head & sholders better performance, especially at a very affordable price. I'm with you though, believe me, on an all aluminum "(no stinking plastic or crimped seals, etc)" radiator, but that'll have to wait for the prices to drop. I can always go back to my CSF, which I boxed up in the TYC shipping box, if the TYC fails.
Thanks for the MUD support, we are truly blessed with this group of knowledgeable gearheads.
I also have a aux fan from landcruiserphil, and although it keeps my AC cold on stop and go traffic, once the engine temp gets above 210, there is very little the fan can/could do, and dumping extra heat in front of the already hot radiator is just asking for disaster. The problem i am having with the all metal brass/copper unit is that it can stay @ 190-200 all day on highway with AC blasting, but as soon as i hit a hill going up a long highway pass that requires me to downshift and maintain 65mph @ 3.5-4k rpm...all bets are off, 215-220 at the top of the climb, and what bothers me is that although the temp will ceep back down on descent, it could never recover back to 190 range, and it lingers around 200-210 no matter how much downhill or flat ground i am on...at this rate, once i hit another hill climb, i am easily back @ 210-215 again.....
my 15k fan is working its magic, and it roars...how do i know? whem i am @ 4L on slow fireroads climb above 3k rpm, the fan really pulls hard and i can see my temp goes down rapidly from 210, 208, 205...within mins. The trouble is when i am at lower RPM at the same grade on 4H, the temp creeps back up due to fan not pulling hard enough, and the radiator struggles to shed fast enough.
Well the Ron Davis alum. radiator will be here in a couple weeks, i will definitely be hoping to see a good 10-15 degree drop, or so i hope.
I am very excited to see someone put the R/D radiator in an 80 series. One thing we can all agree upon...is that it represents the pinnacle of cooling efficiency of the radiators currently available.
And since you have 'hard numbers' already to compare to....the differences will be of good value.
I believe Joey (NLXTACY) has a Ron Davis aluminum installed in his 80, if you wanted to ask him any questions. He has a 1FZ engine, though.
NLXTACY
Wits' End
Yup RD and 1FZ with SC. Going on three years now I think.
