Coolant Filter Install (1 Viewer)

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Who can guess ?

B,

Volume wise, all of the coolant circulates through the filter in a reasonably short period of time. I haven't measured the flow rate, but I imagine it is not very long before all of the coolant makes a pass through the filter; after all, there is only 4 gallons of coolant in total. So it becomes a matter of chance as to whether or not any particular particle gets caught by the filter or the radiator first. And of course, the filter is much more efficient than the radiator in terms of capturing particles.

As far as the cause of the sludge, I can only guess. First, I don't know what it is. Somebody previously stated, I think on this forum, that it is left over casting sand. Well, I don't know what casting sand looks like, but this stuff, when dry, is very fine, like talcum powder. What I do know, is this is the only engine I have owned that I have ever seen with this problem. And there are only two things that are unique about this engine compared to all others I have owned. 1) It has an aluminum radiator and 2) it started life with Toyota red coolant. So if i had to bet, I would bet that it is a problem with the Toyota red coolant. But that is just a guess, and I have no data to back that up. Also, it must be something else than just the coolant, perhaps poor maintenance (not by me!), mixing coolants, a bad batch of coolant, or something, as (I presume) most owners are not seeing this issue. But it is common enough that a number of reports have shown up here and in other forums specific to land cruisers.

When I bought the truck, it had what looked like new, clean Prestone in the radiator. 10K miles later I dipped my finger in the top of radiator and came up with sludge. Upon draining the coolant what looked nice and green in the radiator looked brown and nasty in the bucket. Perhaps it was a mix of green and red coolant, I don't know. I do expect that had I done a more thorough examination (I.E. drained radiator and examine dcore) when I purchased that the problem would have been evident then.

After cleaning the radiator I have been using Prestone, based on having used it for years in other engines with aluminum heads with no problems.

I do expect that the filter will make a major difference in the rate of accumulation of sludge in the radiator. I won't know for sure until I pull out the radiator and have it flushed again and then run it for a few thousand miles.

A side benefit of the filter is that it should prolong the life of the water pump. That in itself would not be sufficient justification to go to all the trouble to install one. My main motiviation is to avoid a clogged radiator and a overheated engine. Clearly, In my experience, just cleaning the radiator and changing the coolant is not sufficient to cure the problem.

Rich
 
Who can guess ?

OK maybe I missed it but Cdan said part of OBA and you said "half right" but then explained it's for the filter for radiator sludge. I'm going back to reread but ???
 
Re:Who can guess ?

Rich,

>> 1) It has an aluminum radiator and 2) it started life with Toyota red coolant. <<

We have seen the sludge build up in a '93 with the 3 core brass radiator that was well maintained by the original owner who used only Toyota Red from day 1.

This is only a single data point but it does beg the question of whether or not the sludge is occurring with AL rads or AL heads... combined with heat and Toyo Red and all the other variables.

-B-
 
Who can guess ?

[quote author=jroc link=board=2;threadid=7062;start=msg58755#msg58755 date=1067924769]
OK maybe I missed it but Cdan said part of OBA and you said "half right" but then explained it's for the filter for radiator sludge. I'm going back to reread but ???
[/quote]

Cdan was right about the mounting part, but wasn't right about what was being mounted. :). I didn't actually expect anybody to guess I would be mounting a coolant filter. It's kinda of a nitch application in a land cruiser. I would be glad not to need one.

Other's may find the mounting plate idea useful for other purposes, as it would be handy for mounting anything else that would fit in the space and not be cooked by the exhaust pipes.
 
Who can guess ?

Rich,

I am extremely interested in what you find in the filter. How long are you expecting/intending to run the filter before a changeout - I'm guessing you've done some guesstimating based in the filter's intervals in a Peterbilt?

My truck has regularly put a thin sediment of this grey paste in the overflow tank. I've owned it since new and the Toyota red was only in it for the first few years before I swapped it for green Prestone until this spring. Now it's got orange Zerex in it and literally a couple days ago I noted the presence of a very small amount of the grey sludge in the overflow. Interesting.

On another thread, someone had cut a rad in half (Christo?) and had quite a bit of the sludge on hand. There was some discussion about having it analyzed and pitching in as a group. I say someone who knows how to set up a Paypal account and who has access to this testing should make this happen - I'd gladly pitch in and I'm sure dozens would.

I'm thinking we should start a "Pitch in a few bucks for grey sludge analysis" thread.

Nice job on the plate, BTW. You had me in the garage for about 10 minutes kinda eyeballing various bolt patterns while the car warmed up. :D

Doug
 
Who can guess ?

Doug,

In a big diesel they may run a filter for 3000 hours, or 150,000 miles, or a year, whichever comes first.

I figured on running the filter for a year or so, unless curiosity gets the better of me. I don't drive the truck much more than 10k a year. I'll cut open the first one just for jollies.

Regarding the overflow bottle. What I see in mine is mostly black particles and not the gray sludge. I think the black particles are yet another substance, that is lighter than the gray sludge, and thus more apt to end up in the overflow.

Gray sludge, black particles. An outsider would probably consider us all nuts! :eek:

But so far, it's the only problem that I have had. Other than the washer diverter valve. And the display lights on the Cd player. And the ... ;)
 
Who can guess ?

If it helps anyone I am installing basically the same setup but using "off the shelf" products. NAPA has a filter base, part # 4019, and the water filters are part numbers 4070 to 4074. The 4070 contains no SCA (supplemental coolant additive) charge. The 4071 contains 4 units, 4072 6 units, 4073 8 units, and the 4074 12 units. I have a kit/tool (like litmus paper) that also comes from NAPA to test the PH etc. of the water and then can use an additive (SCA) to bring the system in balance. The filters with the additive can do the same thing but you are taking a chance since you don't know what it needs. I would recommend just using the 4070 and having the system tested or testing it yourself if you want to go the extra step. That way the filter is working full time. On some of my trucks we used to have them setup with SCA/filter on a bypass circuit and after testing the coolant would open the filter circuit to add SCA if needed. Also, until someone can come up with a reason for this mystery sludge, I would prefer to filter some of it rather than use additives that may exacerbate the problem.
Bill

Oh, sorry, since I can't see pics I couldn't guess. :'(
 
Who can guess ?

Rich:

Part #s / Mfg, please?
 
Who can guess ?

Quoting the Wulf:
"We have seen the sludge build up in a '93 with the 3 core brass radiator that was well maintained by the original owner who used only Toyota Red from day 1."


That was me and it sounds like Doug is seeing the same thing. I was told by someone at TMS that it is casting material. I'm not sure I buy that any more. I suspect that the engine is somehow "manufacturing" the stuff by some sort of reaction process.

I am in the process of looking for a lab to test the stuff. I haven't had a chance to pursue it recently.

D-
 
Who can guess ?

I have the black particles as well. These are flat like flakes and typically around the size of the oregano you shake onto pizza, right? Only image I could think of :-\ Interestingly, I've noticed when you smear them between fingers, they're kinda grey/claylike so they could well be the stuff that settles into the now infamous grey sludge.

I get these particles only from the block drain. Since many do not take the time and trouble to drain/flush the block, it may well be this is how the buildup occurs.

As to the casting sand, I'll also agree with CDan to disagree. No way would Toyota's production process be so sloppy as to leave these amounts in the 4.5 block in such a widespread fashion, for one. Secondly, casting sand I'm familiar with is gritty and this stuff doesn't seem to feel abrasive in the least.

So, what about that Paypal account and thread? If CDan will manage it, someone will provide the sample, I'm in for say $5 and I'm sure at least a dozen others would.

Doug
 
Who can guess ?

Black flakes almost sounds like black rust scale vs another mineral. (Fe3O4 if my memory serves me right)

http://www.butler-machinery.com/Present/9

Do stock rads have a liner? Could this be deteriorating and causing it?
 
Who can guess ?

.... and here I thought the plate was to be mounted under the steering wheel so Gumby's momma wouldn't hit the wheel anymore with her head. :flipoff2:
 
Who can guess ?

You know, guys, I keep reading this thread and somehow my mind pictures sludge and filter and comes up with clogged filter.

I've replaced a sludged radiator so I know what the stuff looks like. I've never torn apart a coolant filter but it must have some kind of "trap" in there.

Aren't you worried about a clogged filter in like maybe 1.5 hours?

Can't seem to get that image out of my mind.

Ed
 
Who can guess ?

[quote author=landandsea link=board=2;threadid=7062;start=msg59034#msg59034 date=1067998828]

Aren't you worried about a clogged filter in like maybe 1.5 hours?

[/quote]


Ed, that could happen, and that would be great. That would mean that the filter is super effective (or alternatively - way too much sludge in engine :( ). The picture is perhaps a bit deceiving, as the filters are quit large, being way bigger than the oil filters used on the 80.

My radiator has been cleaned out once, and at its worst, never looked like what Christo pictured. I will be having the radiator flushed again. I am not expecting the filter to clean the radiator, but am hoping it does prevent it from ever becoming clogged again.

Anyway, the filter is a bypass filter. The input is tee-ed into the flow going to the heaters before the heater control valve and the output is tee-ed into the return flow after the heaters. If it clogs totally, then the system behaves just like before it was installed. No harm, but no further benefit until replacement. I got a case of filters for something like $60 bucks. I am not certain that I will ever use all of them, presuming the cause of the sludge formation is no longer present. Who knows – this is certainly a learning experience for me.

I will be able to detect total clogging by the fact that the filter element would not get very hot, due to lack of flow of hot coolant. Now, the filter head does have a set of unused inlet and outlet ports. If I wanted to do a proper job of monitoring the situation, I could install a small pressure gauge in each and monitor the pressure differential across the filter element. This would give clear indication when the filter was mostly blocked and wouldn't cost much. An inline flow meter would work better but at more expense.

For now I will just check the filter from time to time and verify that it is getting nice and toasty. By the way, it would be a great addition for you guys who work outside in the cold northern regions. It makes a great hand warmer.
;)
 
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Here is a list of the parts I used:

The mounting plate I made myself. Used 12" x 6" x .375” aluminum. I used aluminum as opposed to steel in order to make it easier to cut and shape with my equipment. I also made spacers that are located behind the plate at three of the bolts holes. The spacers are .7" in diameter; which I turned down from .75 inch diameter aluminum rod and drilled for the mounting bolts. The aluminum I ordered from www.metalexpress.net.

The 4 plate mounting bolts I used are 8mm x 1.25 x 50mm.

I Used 2 10mm x 1.25 x 30mm bolts to mount the filter head to the plate. I threaded the plate for these bolts. You will need longer bolts if you wish to through bolt using nuts.

Baldwin Filter Head, part number CFB5000 - This is the filter head only. It does not include the plugs, valves, or hose barbs. www.baldwinfilters.com

Baldwin Coolant Filter, part number B5134 - This filter contains no SCAs (supplemental coolant additives). I believe only wet sleeved diesel engines routinely require SCAs be added to the coolant by the operator. I will omit the long explanation. But be aware most coolant filters include SCAs inside as most coolant filters are installed on diesel engines that require the addition of SCAs. Adding too much SCAs will cause problems. If the shop does not stock these filters, then you may need to buy a case of 12. That is is minimum order from Baldwin. I purchased the filter head and filters from a local Peterbilt service center.

All brass fittings are manufactured by Parker http://www.parker.com/ead/cm1.asp?cmid=396

Quantity 2 of 3/8” male NPT Countersunk Hex-Head Plug, Parker part number 219P-6 for plugging unused ports in filter head.

Quantity 2 of 3/8” male NPT x 3/8 female NPT mini ball valve, Parker part number MV608-6. Shutoff valves eliminate coolant from draining from the lines when changing filters. These are very cool.

Quantity 1 of 3/8” male NPT x ½” beaded hose barb, Parker part number 68HB-8-6, for the filter outlet.

Quantity 4 of 3/8” male NPT x 5/8” beaded hose barb, parker part number 68HB-10-6, 1 is for filter inlet, other 3 are for constructing tee connection to heater hose.

Quantity 1 of 3/8" female NTP x 3/8” female NTP x 3/8" female NTP tee, Parker part number 2203P-6, used with 3 of the hose barbs listed above to construct a 5/8" barbed tee. The supply store did not stock a 5/8" tee, so I made one up from the 4 parts. Find a good brass 5/8" tee and save some money.

Quantity 1 of 180 degree bend pipe, Toyota part number 87248-60480. This connects one side of the inlet tee to the heater valve.

Quantity 1 ½” x ½” x ½” tee, part number unknown, came out of the supply stores odds and ends bin, for connecting the filter outlet to the existing heater outlet hose.

The 5/8" feed hose I used is Gates Green Stripe. Need 4 feet (will have just a little extra left over), Gates part number 28441.

The 1/2" outlet hose I used is Gates Safety Stripe. Need 2 feet (and will have extra left over). I would have used Green Stripe, which is a premium hose, but couldn’t find any local stocking suppliers. If any of you know of a supplier (by the foot) for 1/2" Gates green stripe hose please let me know.

I covered the 1/2 return hose with a thermal protective sleeve, as it passes above the exhaust header. Thermo Sleeve from Thermotec, part number 14010 - www.thermotec.com.

The hose clamps I used are AWAB. These are premium 316 all stainless steel clamps including the screw being stainless. The serrations do not pierce the band, so they do not chew up the hose. I bought these from West Marine. Need 8 to fit 5/8" hose and 6 to fit 1/2" hose. These will never corrode and will never fail. West Marine and these clamps are expensive, but one of their stores is close to me and thus is convenient. These are premium quality hose clamps that are very unlikely to ever fail.
 
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Who can guess ?

Rich,
Great write-up and links. Thanks.
Bill
 
Re:Who can guess ?

Rich,

Nice write up - thanks for taking the time. Also, how many feet of 1/2 inch do you need? Looks like you typo'ed it. Thanks.

Doug
 
Re:Who can guess ?

[quote author=IdahoDoug link=board=2;threadid=7062;start=msg59227#msg59227 date=1068049553]
Rich,

Nice write up - thanks for taking the time. Also, how many feet of 1/2 inch do you need? Looks like you typo'ed it. Thanks.

Doug
[/quote]

A couple of feet are plenty. Here is a pic that includes the outlet connections.
 

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