Coolant Filter Install

[rdublin]

That looks an awful lot like sand and clay. Powdered clay, when wetted, will make a sludge with a consistency varying between sour cream and cream cheese, depending on water content. Both sand and clay are used in sand casting. The clay provides a cohesive bond to hold the sand particles together. The sand grains are typically round and fine.

I found this description of post casting cleanup (http://www.metal-technologies.com/sand.asp) -

"Melting & Pouring
Melting is the preparation of the metal for casting, and its conversion from a solid to a liquid state in a furnace. It is then transferred in a ladle to the molding area of the foundry where it is poured into the molds. After the metal has solidified, the molds are vibrated to remove the sand from the casting, a process called shakeout.

Cleaning
Cleaning generally refers to the removal of all materials that are not part of the finished casting. Rough cleaning is the removal of the gating systems from the casting. Initial finishing removes any residual mold or core sand that remains on the piece after it is free of the mold. Trimming removes any superfluous metal. In the last stages of finishing, the surface of the casting is cleaned for improved appearance. In addition, at this point, the casting is inspected for defects and adherence to quality standards. This inspection may include nondestructive testing to determine whether the part will adequately perform for its intended use."

In something with as many internal passages as an engine block I would not be at all surprised if there were a small amount of residual material that was left. In fact, it could be partially bonded to the cast metal and is only released over time as the metal is worn through corrosion or fluid flow.

This would not explain why we don't see this in other engines, though. Are the LC blocks made by a single source? Are any other blocks made at the same factory? It may just be differences in the manufacturing process and/or the sand used in the molds.

 

[Rich]

That looks an awful lot like sand and clay.
...

Yep, it sure does.

I found the the grey clay like stuff clogging my radiator the first time I looked for it. I believe others have found it later after previously having a clean radiator. Christo posted a picture of an radiator core with the top tank removed that looked like it had over 8 ounces by volume of sludge totally covering the top of the core.

 

[cruiserdan]

By crackie, Rod may be on to something. My well placed contact at TMS has long claimed that the grey matter or paste or whatever the hell you want to call it was casting material. I know of only two engine families that exibit this goop. One is the 1FZ and the other is the 3VZ that was used in 88-94 trucks.


Still, it is troublesome that this material was not removed during the manufacturing process(if that is indeed the case) and the radiator becomes the scarifical anode for the material.

 

[Rich]

In the past I was always skeptical of the casting sand explanation, as all I had found in the radiator top, the radiator inlet pipe, and the heater cores was the grey clay like material.

Now that I have also recovered a large amount of what looks like fine, dark sand, I would not argue that it is not casting sand.

Dan, what does the dried material you collected look like?

 

[cruiserdan]

The material I have been exposed to is somewhat difficult to quantify. The color is best described as "field grey" a color used by the German army in the second world war. Meaning that it is a grey-green that is darkish and does not reflect much light. When still wet, it reminds me very much of valve-lapping compound. It is pasty and can easily be "suspended" by agitating it in water. It is a very fine material and when it finally dries it becomes a non-ferous very fine powder.

 

[instigator]

Rich, that's exactly the same stuff that i extracted out of my filter. and since this is your second filter change, i suspect i'll get just as much the next as i did the first. hopefully with the bypass filter installed it will become a clean system in a few filter changes.(figers crossed).

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

The color is best described as "field grey" a color used by the German army in the second world war...

Good golly Dan, are you saying the Germans are behind our rad problems? That is a great conspiracy theory!

 

[erics_bruisers]

Rich,

How long did it take you to sort all those little tan bits out of the big pile of dark gray bits?

-B-

OMG -- this is funny --

 

[Rookie2]

So is the general thought here: Presense of sludge => clogs radiator => overheats motor => leads to HG failure?

Leading to: Install coolant filter => filter out sludge => elliminate radiator clog/motor overheating/HG failure?


Rookie2

 

[RavenTai]

So is the general thought here: Presense of sludge => clogs radiator => overheats motor => leads to HG failure?

Leading to: Install coolant filter => filter out sludge => elliminate radiator clog/motor overheating/HG failure?


Rookie2

Having an overheat does increase your chances of HG failure, but many have failure without overheat, so this can possibly help with the HG but not necessarily guarantee a good HG,

Cleaning out the junk should increase cooling system parts life, especially the water pump but the rad, thermostat, heater valve, etc will also benefit

 

[Rookie2]

Raven,

If you do this mod. will you take some pics. of your install/parts list/source? This looks like a mod. I'd like to do, but the pics from the earlier portions of the thread are gone. I don't guess I have as much problem with the firewall mount, as I haven't done any washer bottle relocation. BTW, what's the purpose of that?

Thanks,
Rookie2

 

[RavenTai]

When I do the install I will do a write up w/pics and parts, I am gathering parts right now, I am going on a trip soon so it will be a little wile,

The purpose of the washer bottle relocation is to mount the second battery tray from the FJ-80 where the washer bottle now resides for dual batteries

 

[Rich]

Aluminun plate filter mount

 

[Rich]

Coolant feed

 

[Rich]

Coolant Filter

 

[concretejungle]

came in late on this one, but i have a hard time believeing that if infact the "grey matter" is remnants of the block being manufactured. How would an engine that has had fluid circulating throughout for 100,000 miles still have this stuff in the block?

Those dang germans!......

 

[harveya]

B,

And there are only two things that are unique about this engine compared to all others I have owned. 1) It has an aluminum radiator and 2) it started life with Toyota red coolant. So if i had to bet, I would bet that it is a problem with the Toyota red coolant. But that is just a guess, and I have no data to back that up. Also, it must be something else than just the coolant, perhaps poor maintenance (not by me!), mixing coolants, a bad batch of coolant, or something, as (I presume) most owners are not seeing this issue. But it is common enough that a number of reports have shown up here and in other forums specific to land cruisers.

Rich

Rich.

We have common occurences of this sludge build up in the 2LTE and 1KZTE engines in the Diesel Hilux Surfs (4Runner) that are imported from Japan. It seems to be mixing the coolant that causes it.

When these vehicles are first imported to the UK, common practice is to do a complete coolant system flush - and I mean a very comprehensive one, high power water, coolant flush solution, leaving it with the hose running through it for an hour each way through the rad etc.

The Toyota red does not mix with any other coolant without gunk forming in the system, even a small amount left over will cause a reaction with any new stuff put in (even good quality Glycol). You also need to make sure when you are flushing that the radiator is warm and also remove the thermostat while doing it.

When I get my Diesel '80 that will be the first job thta I will do as it will most likely be a new import from Japan. I'l probably spend the best part of a day doing it too.

Still the coolant filter sounds like a good idea, however I would do a really good flush on the system before fitting it otherwise it will block up in no time at all.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Rich]

Andy, the info regarding other engines also exhibiting radiator sludging is interesting. Do you know if they all come from the same engine factory as the 1fzfe?

I appreciate the value of not mixing different types of coolant. Prior to installing the coolant filter, over the course of several weeks, I thoroughly flushed the engine numerous times, draining radiator & block 4 or five times, running radiator cleaner for a week, flushing engine while warmed up and running for over an hour, and finally removing radiator and having it power flushed by a radiator shop. After doing all this there was still stuff circulating through my cooling system, and that is what motivated me to install the filter.

Tonight I examined the dark grit (picture posted previously in this thread) removed from filter with a 15x magnifiying glass. It is almost certainly sand. I do believe what I have filtered and flushed from my coolant system is casting sand & clay, leftover from the foundry. At this point in time this is the simplist explanation that fits all of my observations, is consistent with information provided by others quoting Toyota engineers, and is also consistent with the experience of one owner who since new has only used Toyota coolant who also got sludged.

 

[Rich]

I've updated the parts list on page 2 to eliminate the mangling the occurred during the forum migration.

 

[harveya]

Andy, the info regarding other engines also exhibiting radiator sludging is interesting. Do you know if they all come from the same engine factory as the 1fzfe?

I appreciate the value of not mixing different types of coolant. Prior to installing the coolant filter, over the course of several weeks, I thoroughly flushed the engine numerous times, draining radiator & block 4 or five times, running radiator cleaner for a week, flushing engine while warmed up and running for over an hour, and finally removing radiator and having it power flushed by a radiator shop. After doing all this there was still stuff circulating through my cooling system, and that is what motivated me to install the filter.

Tonight I examined the dark grit (picture posted previously in this thread) removed from filter with a 15x magnifiying glass. It is almost certainly sand. I do believe what I have filtered and flushed from my coolant system is casting sand & clay, leftover from the foundry. At this point in time this is the simplist explanation that fits all of my observations, is consistent with information provided by others quoting Toyota engineers, and is also consistent with the experience of one owner who since new has only used Toyota coolant who also got sludged.

Rich.

Actually I don't think they do all come from the same factory, some of the 2L engines are made by Daihatsu, the Diesel 1HD-T and FT engines come from Hino I think and I don't know where the Gas engines come from - they may be from Osaka.

If it is sand then the explanation of casting sand seems appropriate, although how that engine got through the manufacturing process without having the whole block acid cleaned, who knows. Someone ought to get red carded for that one.

Cheers and good luck, hopefully the filter after a few months will clean all this stuff out and you will have a nice clean cooling system.

Andy