Converter omission (1 Viewer)

[Rainy Day FZJ]

Got the idea from another sight that I frequent. Remove the twin cat. converters and install a o2 sensor simulator to keep the check engine light off. The simulator fakes the ECM to think that there is a rear O2 sensor still being a watchdog for the dreaded and expensive converter failure. I think that it would work for the few that have no concious or emission testing in your area. Heck, the cats could be hollowed out (for visual inspection of smog police) and use the simulator to adjust the signal to keep the light off and pass the test. Or use a "test pipe" with the primary #1 o2 sensor still in place for A/F adjustments decided by the ECM.

This could help with ground clearance and with slider design/ building. All of the above is for "off-road" use only ......of coarse. Now the question is will it work? just look on the WEB at " o2simulator.com " or urdusa.com

Lets hear your opinion before I get one and cut off the converters. 8)

 

[GXO]

I won't be participating in threads to bypass emissions laws...best of luck to you

 

[Rainy Day FZJ]

What are you concerned that will put out more polution than a stinky diesel?

 

[GXO]

More concerned that we would be giving public information that allows someone to bypass emissions laws.

 

[clownmidget]

My opinion is that it's stupid, a tremendous waste of money, time and energy, but mostly unwarranted. Have you ripped off your cats off roading? I don't think so since you're talking about cutting off the perfectly normal functioning ones currently on the truck. Until you actually do that, I think my opinion takes the day. Also, I think your reasons are bogus. There's probably hundreds of 80s out there right now with sliders that somehow got mounted with those cats there and yet there are only a few that can say they've ripped the cats off or damaged them by off roading. It's also pretty trivial to add some specific cat protection to the sliders as Junk did, or go with something like Ken Hanna has for sale. This was beat in a previous thread where another thought was to turn the cats sideways to gain clearance. Either way, there really doesn't seem to be a reason to go the route you propose except for the reasons mentioned above, so have at it :

I guess the environmental, legal, ethical and moral reasons are irrelevant to you but that bothers me too. That's not really 80s tech so I'll save that rant.

As always, that's just my opinion so don't get all pissed off - it is a forum

Mike R.

 

[cruiserdan]

Removall of the cats does not realize enough (if any) gain in performance to justify doing so. In adddition it is blatantly illegal to do so on a street-licensed vehicle.


What is your justification for this mod?

 

[Doc]

[quote author=clownmidget link=board=2;threadid=16713;start=msg161056#msg161056 date=1085112709]
environmental, legal, ethical and moral reasons
[/quote]

Oh my.

If you are replacing the entire exhaut system it might be a worth while investment to buy a couple of high flow catalytic converters. I know you can get them in 2, 2.5, and 3 inch piping diameters. I'm not sure what size OE piping we have, but it's another option that would keep you legal if you have those checks.

Myself, I live in Iowa. In Iowa it's perfectly legal to run around open header all day long if I wanted too. There are some sound laws, but nothing regarding emissions. No emissions testing, no inspections, nothing.

And that's one of the reasons I went cat-less on my Integra. But, I also put out less gasses than most cars because of fuel tuning and engine management.

 

[Koffer]

NJ + No Cat = $10,000 fine :'( shop that did it $100K fine

Now I know why the smog is so bad here on the east as its blowing over from the mid west

 

[DieselROCKS]

More pollution than a big stinky diesel?? I believe diesels put out less pollution than you guys with the gassers hence the no-pollution systems

Just a FYI

Geoff

 

[Gumby]

Depends on the pollution. Diesels give off a lot of NOX and particulate. That's why they will be almost non-existant in passenger cars once the new, tougher laws go in effect.

I think that catalytic converters are a federal thing. You may not get tested, but that doesn't mean it's legal to run without them.

I am thinking about running an emulator in order to eliminate the second O2 for ease of fabrication reasons, but not to bypass the cats.

 

[GXO]

[quote author=Gumby link=board=2;threadid=16713;start=msg161217#msg161217 date=1085147543]
Depends on the pollution. Diesels give off a lot of NOX and particulate. That's why they will be almost non-existant in passenger cars once the new, tougher laws go in effect.
[/quote]

Also remember that diesels are that way because of the refining, not the engine design.

They can make diesel cleaner by refining better....or using veggie oil to run it!

 

[turbocruiser]

[quote author=Doc link=board=2;threadid=16713;start=msg161195#msg161195 date=1085144814]
Oh my.

If you are replacing the entire exhaut system it might be a worth while investment to buy a couple of high flow catalytic converters. I know you can get them in 2, 2.5, and 3 inch piping diameters.

And that's one of the reasons I went cat-less on my Integra. But, I also put out less gasses than most cars because of fuel tuning and engine management.
[/quote]

Two thoughts to share: First, in my case, I have a 3" high-flow, high-performance cat and I think this is the best compromise between pure performance and environmental stewardship. Although there might be some small amount of performance produced by having no stock cats, there is not much, if any amount of performance improvement between no cats and high-flow/high performance cats. It is simply not worth it from any performance perspective, any environmental perspective, or from the perspective of fines, impounds, fees, etc. And, although the stock cats are fine for stock exhaust, if the intent of the person posting the thread is to increase pure performance, in the end, it would be less money and less time spent to get virtually the same amount of performance AND stay within the moral, ethical and legal realms.
Second, I would argue about any assertion that anyone " puts out less gasses than most cars because of fuel tuning and engine management". There are several reasons this statement is flawed ( and no, I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm trying to share another perspective so no diss to anyone ) one reason is that nowadays MOST vehicles do have fuel tuning and engine management and ALL of those vehicles will also have cats so it is incorrect to say that with the fuel tuning and engine management you are less gassy then most cars, in fact, you are only less gassy perhaps than older cars with carbs, no cats, and no engine controls! Sorry but its true. Further, it is important to remember and to understand that regardless of how perfect fuel tuning and engine management is, and it is getting more and more perfect all the time, the whole purpose of the cat is to combust ANY remaining fuels and pollutants in the exhaust. The cat is the second internal combustion device on your vehicle ( hey cool, we all got two internal combustion devices! ) and by a catalytic process ( chemical process where a chemical reaction is accelerated and made more complete by a catalyst, in this case various platinum parts ) it more fully combusts fuels and pollutants within the exhaust stream and therefore helps with emissions. It is such a superb device, why would anyone want to remove it unless it severely restricted performance, which it does not!!! I'm trying not to sound like a prude or a prick but leave the frickin thing alone, seriously. If you must do something with it, do what I did, add a high-performance cat, finish up with a high performance exhaust system, rotate the cats so they are protected, put on your slee sliders, and call it good!!! This cat trick thing sucks in my opinion and I am sooo pleased that sooo many of you agree. As a group we, and all people who use wilderness for recreation have to stand strong with these things. Okay, sorry for the rant, and again, no offense to anyone.

 

[Doc]

We'll have to agree to disagree. The fact of the matter is that the factory ECU on my auto-xer, as well as most of them out there, keep the fuel overly rich to prevent engine damage and keep things 'safe'.

Safe is not nesicarily the most powerful. By installing a header system with super long primary runners, and a twin-looped straight through exhaust I gained a significant amount of power throughout the rpm band. This was accomplished mostly on the dyno using a fuel pressure regulator and an electronic fuel modifier for even more fine tuning during certain RPM bands. Now before anyone chimes in with 'good bye motor' I'm running 13:1 compression and have zero knock under load, even at 89 octane fuel. I usually run 92 though.

Result- I'm running much leaner than the stock ecu would normally let me, leaner in my case yields more power. Part of the dyno session was a typical emissions testing, because I did the dyno in a state that had emissions testing- the results of the test showed that my emissions were well below the amount allowed by law, and lower than about 75% of the cars of the same make, model and year as mine.

All this was done on a 4-cyl motor, so you can imagine that if I'm putting out well below the amount designated for my car, then compared to an SUV or pickup I'm putting out significantly less.

I didn't make the decision to do what I did lightly, and it DID cost a pretty penny for the set up and tuning. But, it's part of the puzzle for more hp.

All of the above has nothing to do with cruisers though, as I don't believe anyone makes long primary style headers for our trucks, or fuel management units. I'm just pointing out that you can get a cat-less vehicle to run as clean, or cleaner than a cat equiped vehicle as long as you are willing to spend the time and money it takes. Nor would you want to run a truck designed to pull some serious weight as lean as my little car.

Cliff notes: Running a cat-less cruiser is dumb.

 

[landtoy80]

New diesel semi truck now have a cat.

 

[Rainy Day FZJ]

The idea was to see if and why there are 2 read it and look at 2 cat converters on the FZJ cruisers. The post on my behalf was as I re read it and think of what I am trying to accomplish it seems to be the hornets nest.. :whoops: the 2 converters must be by everyones consensis that the land cruiser is sucha pollution monster that it needs 2 or the technology for converters has changed for the better significantly since the early 90's. I think the latter...

Use a 3" high flow single converter such as the 150 dollar type that summit and the like carry. Finish off with a quiet 3'' exhaust. The idea was just that, an idea.. Ideas get batted around here on a minute by minute basis. Some people have more ideas than money and the intent was not to step in the preverbial dog pile.. So I guess that I will have to keep my ideas to myself.

 

[clownmidget]

Well, I think you still missed the point, entirely to boot. The stock exhaust is fine. That's it. Removing it and running straight cut headers to your front fender well would only gain you a minimum increase in hp. Modifying the sh*t out of it will only gain you a minimum increase in hp. Going from the stock to 3" from the cat(s) back will only gain you a minimum increase in hp. Removing the stock muffler and installing a Borla, Flowmaster, Gibson, etc. will only gain you a minimum in hp. Removing the resonator will only gain you a minimum increase in hp. Does any of this make sense? If you haven't destroyed or ripped off the stock exhaust, put your time, energy, money, etc. into something that will actually make a noticeable difference.

Also, what do you think has changed in coverter technology in the past 10 yrs? Look into this before you assume they've "improved". They are exactly the same tech that has been used since their inception and I can assure you that the ones on your 1995 truck are identical to the ones on the Toy showroom floor.

Several folks have the supercharger on their truck and some have turbochargers and retaining the cat converters allows these to still pass emissions easily. If its a power increase you're after, those are real changes.

Also, if you don't like having your ideas challenged by a lot of folks that know different things than you, maybe you should just be quiet

Mike R.

 

[Beowulf]

>> Lets hear your opinion before I get one and cut off the converters. <<

>> So I guess that I will have to keep my ideas to myself. <<

Rainy,
It is bad form to ask for opinions and then whine about the feedback you get just because it wasn't what you expected.

Grow up.

-B-

 

[TOYOTADRUNK]

Boy,Ive got plenty of thoughts on this one for both sides , but will remain silent with my opinions, however, If you guys put as much thought into your lives as you do your exuast system, there must be little time for sleep. Iam not complaning here at all just reading and learning, keep on keeping on!!

 

[concretejungle]

Yes, some folks get entirely too uptight on this board at times. I think it could have been best put as saying it's illegal. And leave it at that. Or bring the backpressure issue up. But attacking someone for thinking is kinda silly.......just my .02 cents.