Confidence check on front pass wheel bearing/spindle R&R (1 Viewer)

[eric90503]

In need of a peer review/confidence check on my 97' 80. I've got 131k on the clock and did a R&R on the front wheel bearings at 105k. ...So basically these
front passenger Koyo's have 26K on them. New spindle was installed at the same time.

About 50miles ago, I was getting what I perceived as a grinding noise that was barely audible to a moderate grinding noise, speed dependent. Initially I thought it might have been debris caught in the dust shield or a bent dust shield. Upon further inspection it is free and clear from the rotor. My next area to check was the brake pad, perhaps it was at the backing. The pad seems to be ok and no real scoring on the rotor. The grinding noise DOES seem to quiet a tiny bit when brake pressure is applied, but still there.
I don't have enough hours with these eyes to see if these bearings/spindle is still good. More concern is with the spindle as the bearings are already out and will be replaced. No felt ridges or lips on the spindle with my fingernail. Perhaps my pre-load was off? I did do the preload per fsm & 13lb fish scale method 26K miles ago upon install.

....Stumped. Need a little help if this seems familiar?

 

[eric90503]

 

[CharlieS]

I'm not remotely an expert, but several of those rollers look damaged to me. But you noted that you are replacing them, so no big deal.

 

[jpoole]

I did do the preload per fsm & 13lb fish scale method 26K miles ago upon install.

I assume this was the issue and that you were running the bearings loose. Drop this into Google to read/learn more:

80 wheel bearing preload site:IH8MUD Forum - https://forum.ih8mud.com​

I think it's smart to lift and check all 4 wheels for bearing slack periodically by push/pulling at the 12/6 oclock and then 3/9 oclock positions on the tire. Any bearing slack is going to lead to wandering, bearing/spindle wear and possibly other issues.

Most of us set the inner nut to 30 or 40 ft lb roughly, turn the hub, reset to same preload and then lock things down with the outer nut. I always re-check for tightness within a few hundred miles and then again once or twice a year after that. New bearings tend to need to be re tightened after install while old bearings rarely do in my experience. It's been a few years since I've had to re tighten any bearings on my 80 but I still check them whenever the wheels are off the ground.

 

[jpoole]

Oh yeah, spindles look serviceable to me. Feel for a noticeable lip on the bottom surface near the edge of where the bearing races ride on the spindles. If you have damage it will most likely show up there as a lip on one or the other spindle bearing contact surfaces. Tight bearings don't turn relative to the spindle which protects the spindle from wear but loose/sloppy bearings may turn on the spindle and wear a groove that makes it really hard to get later bearing installs to hold preload.

 

[JoeCova]

Did your new spindle come with a needle bearing? Needle bearings tend to fail and create a grinding or vibrating noise

The bearings and spindle looks fine (scoring/scratches on bearing rollers is normal) other than what looks like rust sploches which should never exist given the grease in there.

 

[AgentOrange]

Spindles look great. Bearings, not so much. I agree with @jpoole especially if running larger than stock tires. That preload is for much smaller tires than most of us run. I torque to 30 on new bearings and check at every oil service and in between if I have the front up for any reason

 

[eric90503]

I assume this was the issue and that you were running the bearings loose. Drop this into Google to read/learn more:

80 wheel bearing preload site:IH8MUD Forum - https://forum.ih8mud.com​

I think it's smart to lift and check all 4 wheels for bearing slack periodically by push/pulling at the 12/6 oclock and then 3/9 oclock positions on the tire. Any bearing slack is going to lead to wandering, bearing/spindle wear and possibly other issues.

Most of us set the inner nut to 30 or 40 ft lb roughly, turn the hub, reset to same preload and then lock things down with the outer nut. I always re-check for tightness within a few hundred miles and then again once or twice a year after that. New bearings tend to need to be re tightened after install while old bearings rarely do in my experience. It's been a few years since I've had to re tighten any bearings on my 80 but I still check them whenever the wheels are off the ground.

Appreciate the feedback. This is what I didn't do, after my axle/knuckle rebuilt I never came back to check the new bearings. Note taken as with my low mileage I've only done one full axle rebuild on this rig. Thank you!

 

[eric90503]

Oh yeah, spindles look serviceable to me. Feel for a noticeable lip on the bottom surface near the edge of where the bearing races ride on the spindles. If you have damage it will most likely show up there as a lip on one or the other spindle bearing contact surfaces. Tight bearings don't turn relative to the spindle which protects the spindle from wear but loose/sloppy bearings may turn on the spindle and wear a groove that makes it really hard to get later bearing installs to hold preload.

Haven't felt any lip on the race where it interfaces the spindle. One thing I did notice that the inner race does not fully engage all it's surface to the spindle. As if it only pushes back and covers 75% of the race/spindle contact surface area. I've attached a couple images with the green arrows. Upon looking at a few other members photos it seems about the same. Perhaps it's out of round or just the way it is. I've only done one rebuild on these 80's and don't have enough seat time to tell yet. I appreciate you taking the time to share bud.

 

[eric90503]

Spindles look great. Bearings, not so much. I agree with @jpoole especially if running larger than stock tires. That preload is for much smaller tires than most of us run. I torque to 30 on new bearings and check at every oil service and in between if I have the front up for any reason

Appreciate that note, I'm on 35's at the moment moving to 37"s. My new protocol!

 

[eric90503]

Did your new spindle come with a needle bearing? Needle bearings tend to fail and create a grinding or vibrating noise

The bearings and spindle looks fine (scoring/scratches on bearing rollers is normal) other than what looks like rust sploches which should never exist given the grease in there.

Yes, I believe this new spindle I popped in has the new roller bearings. Thank God for google sheets, that was 8 years ago 14k earlier. I'm hoping its not the needle bearings at 14k. It is bizzare on the corrosion spots, my hub was packed with CV2.

 

[eric90503]

Forgot to mention, the oil seal after 14k miles (I replaced the spindle after the bearings 26k ago) did put a decent groove in the spindle surface. It did its job, hoping to migrate the new oil seal for a new lane. I don't mind throwing money at this rig, just trying not to waste it. I've been noticing a few big brake kits coming to fruition on mud as of late So far, it seems spindle is still good to go.

 

[LockedCollector]

Maybe someone can clarify about the 30 to 40 ft lb torque of the inner nut. Do you back it off as per FSM or leave that torque on? I was under the impression that you torqued to seat the bearings and then back off just enough to not wear the bearing prematurely due to the full 30 to 40 ft lb torque.

 

[AgentOrange]

Maybe someone can clarify about the 30 to 40 ft lb torque of the inner nut. Do you back it off as per FSM or leave that torque on? I was under the impression that you torqued to seat the bearings and then back off just enough to not wear the bearing prematurely due to the full 30 to 40 ft lb torque.

So how I do it is I crank mine down tight. I don't put the torque wrench on it when seating everything. Then I rotate it a bunch forwards and backwards. and retighten and loosen repeatedly. After I feel ok with it, I torque the inner nut to 30 ft/lb and assemble the rest like normal.

 

[LockedCollector]

Thanks

 

[JoeCova]

Maybe someone can clarify about the 30 to 40 ft lb torque of the inner nut. Do you back it off as per FSM or leave that torque on? I was under the impression that you torqued to seat the bearings and then back off just enough to not wear the bearing prematurely due to the full 30 to 40 ft lb torque.

I torque to 43, spin the hub to seat the bearing, torque again to 43, then back up and retighten to finger tight tjen add a little extra. The rear is easier since you align the notches which generally requires you to go a little over finger tight so I do the same for the front. Pretty much was the FSM says.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Appreciate that note, I'm on 35's at the moment moving to 37"s. My new protocol!

Lose the FSM bearing preload instructions.

I had several issues with bearings being loose after a few thousand miles. Have been torquing inner nut to 30lb, rotate hub a few times with a wheel mounted, retorque to 30lb, then install lock washer, outer nut etc and typewriter it to 45lb.
Check by jacking the front end up, grip the tire at 6 & 12 o'clock, rock the tire toward and way from you. If it's loose, you'll feel a very slight mechanical clunk, more than just the flex in the tire. Any detectable mechsnical play is too loose.

There's more fretting on your spindle than I'd expect to see in that time frame, but they still look OK. Suggests not enough bearing preload

Did you grease the bushing or needle roller in the back of the spindles?

 

[mudgudgeon]

So how I do it is I crank mine down tight. I don't put the torque wrench on it when seating everything. Then I rotate it a bunch forwards and backwards. and retighten and loosen repeatedly. After I feel ok with it, I torque the inner nut to 30 ft/lb and assemble the rest like normal.

I've done basically this. I experimented with another step of using a dead blow hammer to smack the tire sidewall at 12, 3, 6, 9 o'clock to seat bearings, and found this would give me another ⅛ to ⅙ of a turn more to retorque to 30lb. I think at this point, it's splitting hairs

 

[mudgudgeon]

Maybe someone can clarify about the 30 to 40 ft lb torque of the inner nut. Do you back it off as per FSM or leave that torque on? I was under the impression that you torqued to seat the bearings and then back off just enough to not wear the bearing prematurely due to the full 30 to 40 ft lb torque.

Do not back off. This is one place where the FSM method falls down.

Many mechanics set wheel bearings by feel. This is fine for your average sedan on 6"wide, 24" tyres. Whole different deal on a 3t cruiser on 12.5 wide 37"s