Clutch issue, won't go into reverse. 60 build (1 Viewer)

[Sandhiller]

1985 60 build, with 78 2F and 4 speed out of donor 78 40 series. Rebuilt engine, runs great, put in original clutch because it was good per the FSM and this is a budget build, not a daily driver. Flywheel and pressure plate was good, clutch was ok per FSM, new master and slave (correct for 85, 60) and everything appears to be bled and operating good. If I back the clutch adjustment out so the release bearing has the correct play then the clutch is not disengaging enough to shift the tranny with the engine running. If I increase the pressure on the throw out bearing to the point I believe the throw out would be turning all the time I can shift while engine is running, but not into reverse? The rig is on jack stands and when it is cranked in to the point I can shift, The drive shaft is still turning even in neutral...a little, it eventually stops but apparently there is still friction there...maybe that's normal and I can just see it because I'm on jack stands. The disc cannot be backwards because it does disengage some and chages with the length applied to the adjustment rod on the slave.
I checked and the only different parts between the 60 and 40 were the slave, fork and mount, I have the proper ones in, also the throw out or release bearing and the disc are the same part# between the two...Ideas...other than the "you should have put in a new clutch disc, pressure plate..blah..blah" I'm not being a smart ass but this is on a budget..so ..Helpful thoughts...

 

[Godwin]

I bet it's something with the pilot bearing.

 

[Sandhiller]

New pilot bearing, went together well, everything bolted up fine, almost looks like it could be the throw distance of the slave? I put oem size master and slave in so throw should be correct, I'm going back to zero and measured the pedal height, maybe that's it? distance of pedal movement equals distance of slave rod movement? just ban idea. I really do't want to pull the tranny. If I do I'll put in a new disc and pressure plate etc.

 

[LazarusTaxa]

I had a similar problem after I took my shifter lever out and put it back in... I could shift through 1-4 but couldn't really get it into reverse and if I could I couldn't get it out. I later learned I needed to physically pull up on the shift lever to overcome this.

I ordered a new shifter seat/seal (part number 33505-60011, $11) and that solved it for me.

So, maybe it's unrelated to the clutch altogether?

 

[Sandhiller]

I'll check that but I know my throw is part of it because I can't shift at all if I don't turn my adjustment in on my release lever. Also when I can shift 1 thru 4 I go to reverse and it wants to grind...So, maybe a synchro? if they have one? don't know all about the trannys on these.

 

[ChaserFJ60]

I'll check that but I know my throw is part of it because I can't shift at all if I don't turn my adjustment in on my release lever. Also when I can shift 1 thru 4 I go to reverse and it wants to grind...So, maybe a synchro? if they have one? don't know all about the trannys on these.

The reverse gear has no syncro to wear out fortunatly.

I would go to core basics and check trans fluid first.

I had a similar issue to yours when I installed the clutch backwards as the clutch disk will let you install it backwards. Have somebody press the clutch while your under the truck and see if the you can see it disengaging, you should see both sides of the clutch disk "lifting" from the flywheel and pressure plate, if only one side is lifting then you have a backwards clutch.

Or during installation the new pilot bearing was crushed and is locking the input-shaft into rotation... maybe.

 

[Sandhiller]

The reverse gear has no syncro to wear out fortunatly.

I would go to core basics and check trans fluid first.

I had a similar issue to yours when I installed the clutch backwards as the clutch disk will let you install it backwards. Have somebody press the clutch while your under the truck and see if the you can see it disengaging, you should see both sides of the clutch disk "lifting" from the flywheel and pressure plate, if only one side is lifting then you have a backwards clutch.

It lifts from both sides and I was very cognizant of that happening when I put it together. I also do not believe it would disengage at all if it was backwards? but as a last resort I'll have to pull the tranny back and look

 

[ChaserFJ60]

It lifts from both sides and I was very cognizant of that happening when I put it together. I also do not believe it would disengage at all if it was backwards? but as a last resort I'll have to pull the tranny back and look

It does disengage but with great force if installed backwards. If its lifting from both sides then id cut out the possibility of a backward clutch.

Is this a "New to you" transmission? Does it grind when you try and shift it into reverse or other gears?

 

[ChaserFJ60]

It does disengage but with great force if installed backwards. If its lifting from both sides then id cut out the possibility of a backward clutch.

Is this a "New to you" transmission? Does it grind when you try and shift it into reverse or other gears?

With the truck on and idling in first gear, have somebody press and hold the clutch in and see if the driveshaft stops moving. if it does then good. Can you shift into reverse with the engine off?

 

[OSS]

Pilot bearing is shot is my guess too.

 

[Sandhiller]

I'm finishing up on a break job so I can get it on the ground and see what its doing, answers to the above:
The disc lifts from both side,
The rig is new to me,
Got it w/o an engine or motor mounts, rebuilt an engine from a 78,
Tranny was in the 85 when I got it, Looks great, feels succinct on shift pattern, does not grind anywhere except reverse, shifts smooth into all the other gears.
Pilot bearing is brand new and went together smoothly.
...Now my front calipers won't bleed, apparently the pressure valve under the master cylinder is messed up. Rears bleed but not the fronts.

 

[ChaserFJ60]

I'm finishing up on a break job so I can get it on the ground and see what its doing, answers to the above:
The disc lifts from both side,
The rig is new to me,
Got it w/o an engine or motor mounts, rebuilt an engine from a 78,
Tranny was in the 85 when I got it, Looks great, feels succinct on shift pattern, does not grind anywhere except reverse, shifts smooth into all the other gears.
Pilot bearing is brand new and went together smoothly.
...Now my front calipers won't bleed, apparently the pressure valve under the master cylinder is messed up. Rears bleed but not the fronts.

I may be wrong but I don't think FJ60's have a brake proportioning valve, Can somebody else could confirm this?
Could be a clogged line?

 

[Sandhiller]

Not the "load valve" on the rear, this is the proportion valve beneath the MC, due to front disc and rear drums

 

[OSS]

If you're hearing gears grind when trying to shift it into reverse, that's because the transmission is still spinning, and it's still spinning because the clutch isn't working properly. Ckutch isn't releasing fully

 

[cps432]

If you're hearing gears grind when trying to shift it into reverse, that's because the transmission is still spinning, and it's still spinning because the clutch isn't working properly. Ckutch isn't releasing fully

It could also be an anomaly of a worn idler shaft. Mine was so worn out before I installed the 5 speed that the reverse gear would get jammed and hang up while shifting in and out of reverse. It wouldn’t fully seat into reverse unless I first popped it into second or fourth gear. Occasionally, I couldn’t get it out of reverse unless I rocked the truck back and forth with my foot to loosen the gear from its bound up state. Having a nice new idler shaft kept the gears from sitting cockeyed on the shaft when the load was reversed.

 

[Seth S]

Does it shift into all gears easily when the engine is shut off?

 

[Sandhiller]

It did...the rest of the story..I was so careful about putting in the disc backwards that's what I did. Pulled it all myself, sure enough disc was backwards. I checked the flywheel and it was perfectly flat, I roughed it up with an air buffer, just to where it was not glossy, put in a new clutch disc and pressure plate. Went together a little difficult because I was using an atv lift for the tranny lift and it went back together. Adjusted and bled the slave and bingo, all is well with that. Lesson learned...again.
Now need to tackle why the brakes won't bleed. Pretty sure its a proportioning valve problem located beneath the master cylinder..People ask about time for this job. Doing it by myself, with jack stands, a floor jack and an atv lift..2 hours to get it on the floor, the prop shafts were a little tough to gety off.
Put it together in 1 hour by myself and 2.5 with one other person so...8 man hours? maybe a little less. That Tranny is really heavy..

 

[ChaserFJ60]

It did...the rest of the story..I was so careful about putting in the disc backwards that's what I did. Pulled it all myself, sure enough disc was backwards. I checked the flywheel and it was perfectly flat, I roughed it up with an air buffer, just to where it was not glossy, put in a new clutch disc and pressure plate. Went together a little difficult because I was using an atv lift for the tranny lift and it went back together. Adjusted and bled the slave and bingo, all is well with that. Lesson learned...again.
Now need to tackle why the brakes won't bleed. Pretty sure its a proportioning valve problem located beneath the master cylinder..People ask about time for this job. Doing it by myself, with jack stands, a floor jack and an atv lift..2 hours to get it on the floor, the prop shafts were a little tough to gety off.
Put it together in 1 hour by myself and 2.5 with one other person so...8 man hours? maybe a little less. That Tranny is really heavy..

Ive been there and it SUCKS. My back hurts thinking about having to do the clutch twice in two days. Glad it was sorted out

 

[ToyotaMatt]

It did...the rest of the story..I was so careful about putting in the disc backwards that's what I did. Pulled it all myself, sure enough disc was backwards. I checked the flywheel and it was perfectly flat, I roughed it up with an air buffer, just to where it was not glossy, put in a new clutch disc and pressure plate. Went together a little difficult because I was using an atv lift for the tranny lift and it went back together. Adjusted and bled the slave and bingo, all is well with that. Lesson learned...again.
Now need to tackle why the brakes won't bleed. Pretty sure its a proportioning valve problem located beneath the master cylinder..People ask about time for this job. Doing it by myself, with jack stands, a floor jack and an atv lift..2 hours to get it on the floor, the prop shafts were a little tough to gety off.
Put it together in 1 hour by myself and 2.5 with one other person so...8 man hours? maybe a little less. That Tranny is really heavy..

Ive been there and it SUCKS. My back hurts thinking about having to do the clutch twice in two days. Glad it was sorted out

1 VERY important detail NOT to be on a budget on and for is :

- inspect BOTH shift tower dowel pins for ANY wear or if there loose at all ?

- if ANY notable wear at all , REPLACE BOTH

- next , REPLACE the rubber cup seal at base of cane socket and the white nylon cup grommet that snaps on the end of shifter stick please ! do your self a huge favor here

- the cup seal might be green or blue ?


- IF u have to replace both dowel pins USA ONLY SOR.com kit , its never failed me except when i forgot to install a wadded up paper tpwell into the shifter hole before any work starts ................

- i will bet money you have one or both bad dowel pins , i have NEVER seen a fj40 or 60 that does not ?

- oem ones are hardend steel , SOR kit is HIGH TINSLE STAINLESS ,,,,,


trust me here i have made the mistake one time of being cheap and lazy ...............i suffered in the end



i hope your pjct goes smooth from here on out


matt


the oem ones are rivited in and come loose ,

@Spike Strip / alf can verify all i prescribe above SOLID

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