Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters

[Economist LC76]

? on those dates. ‘65‘s have amp meters.

3rd Post here covers this topic

Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters

There seems to be a lot of questions about Clusters, Gauges, Speedo and Odo meters, so I thought why not set up a page as a reference guide / database / knowledge center? Over time I collected a lot of pictures. I created a Gallery with all the photos I have, which you can see here...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[middlecalf]

Well that 2nd generation set was around in '65, which is before '69 IIRC. And I'm wondering how many '69s have a generation one cluster. So this boy scout is still confused on the published dates.

 

[jumans]

FSM’s for cluster explanation and repair.

As my father always said: Prepare before you begin and another one of his: Preparation is 90% of the success. So let’s start with the documentation.
Here are the chapters related to cluster and gauges from the FSM’s.

From the 1971 FSM for 2nd generation clusters
If you want this in pdf format, you can download it from here: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwGk8zcL34N4YWQ4NDljMDQtYzNjMy00NmZjLWEzZDEtMDY3OTg4MDMxNjE0

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From the 1972 / 1973 FSM also for 2nd generation clusters.
This one is the same as the one above but for the purists under us…. the lay out is a bit different. Pdf format download: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwGk8zcL34N4NDIwMmUxYjUtMzY1NC00ODA4LTljOGUtMjJjYjAwOGM4NGQz

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From the 1974 till Jan 1979 FSM for 3rd generation clusters.
Pdf format download:
FSM cluster 75 - 78.pdf

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I didn’t put in the 1979 till April 1986 FSM because that FSM is a mix of 40 series and 60 series and it’s not clear to me what is related to which series. Maybe later when I find out what is what or somebody shines a light on this.


Rudi

Hi Rudi,
Did you have any luck with finding more information on the 4th generation gauges 1983 version. Look for the PDFs

Cheers Julian

 

[ToyotaMatt]

One page history. Thanks for inspiration @bj40green
View attachment 2365985

hello my Economist non-usa friend , matt here


this is the first time i have seen this true work of TEq TECH art !

may i inquire as one artist to another , who hand crafted this and when ?

please feel free to PM me to discuss this topic further .........

thanks

this NOS KPH example is my personal favorite

​

 

[jarhead3121]

So dumb question. This is probably the coolest thread (and forum) I've ever seen! I just got my 73 FJ40 with an SBC 350 swap. The fuel gauge doesn't work, and he has an aftermarket water temp gauge installed. This led me to believe the issues were common (since it's fuel and temp that do not work), but would the SBC conversion potentially be at the root? I definitely need the fuel gauge resolved, so that's priority 1. Priority 2 will be getting the speedo and ODO working. I need to see if they did the proper speedo cable switch over or not, so hoping that resolves the speedo. ODO, I may have to take it all apart and do that clean/restoration. I plan to do a Sniper EFI conversion, and as part of that, I want to move the temp gauge back to the stock gauge and use that spot for the EFI display. I'm wondering if the fact that the water gauge is on it's own, if that's not contributing as well. I know.. wrote a book. Apologies.

 

[jarhead3121]

Actually.. doing some additional digging, looks like the PO didn't get the water temp union to convert the SBC temp sensor to the Toyota union. So basically, it's hanging out disconnected. I'm presuming this would cause the issue with the fuel gauge since they are tied together?

 

[1911]

The

Actually.. doing some additional digging, looks like the PO didn't get the water temp union to convert the SBC temp sensor to the Toyota union. So basically, it's hanging out disconnected. I'm presuming this would cause the issue with the fuel gauge since they are tied together?

They are grounded together, so that is the first place to look. As I recall, the ground for both is through a small tab on the back of the cluster case, which is susceptible to loosening or corrosion.

 

[jarhead3121]

The


They are grounded together, so that is the first place to look. As I recall, the ground for both is through a small tab on the back of the cluster case, which is susceptible to loosening or corrosion.

Yep.. further investigation reveals that the temp gauge is just dead.. which is expected since it doesn't have any input. The fuel gauge pegs to the right (full) side. I'm hoping it's just a ground issue/simple fix. I ordered some test light material to follow the FSM instructions. Hoping to check that this weekend.

 

[jarhead3121]

So weird update.. had her out and about today running errands. I'm used to the E-brake light being on and telling me I'm stupid. Had some admirers checking her out and drove off. Didn't get far before I knew something was off.. Fuel Gauge was WORKING, but my E-brake was engage but no light. Fixed that and things were fine. Going down the road a bit, the fuel gauge pegged again. At the next stop, I put her in neutral and engaged the E-brake, voila! Fuel gauge! Took the E-brake off and things worked until I got home. Just checked and gauge is out again. Are the Brake light and Fuel gauge linked somewhere? I'm guessing a bad ground/wiring job somewhere I need to chase, but super stoked to know the gauge works!! (I'm assuming it's accurate.. that's for another time..)

 

[Baja73]

Hi Geaff,
That's the Speed Sensor. Full name VSV or Vehicle Speed Sensor.
It was used in some markets (not all markets) and was part of the ECE (Emission Control Equipment) or ECC (Emission Control Computer) system. It was for gasoline trucks only.
View attachment 1015871

View attachment 1015891

In some other markets it was used to sound an alarm with a buzzer at a certain speed.

Rudi

Can someone please clarify what happens to these terminals. I have a 73. Do these terminals close at a certain speed? Is it meant to close and become a ground path? Please advise. Thanks.

 

[Engineer8000]

It is a reed switch that sends pulses to the emissions computer. The pulse rate depends how fast the truck is moving.

 

[Jnryan]

Hi, new to all this and a total mechanical novice. Would a '77 temp sender (20011) work with a 4th gen cluster? Supposed to be a JDM imported into the UK. No VIN but Engine and chassis numbers are '77, following this thread realised cluster is post '79. Replaced sender as original not working, replacement also not working. Gauge and wiring work, gauge reads hot when touch wire to engine block. Any suggestions?

 

[waiting for time]

Hi, new to all this and a total mechanical novice. Would a '77 temp sender (20011) work with a 4th gen cluster? Supposed to be a JDM imported into the UK. No VIN but Engine and chassis numbers are '77, following this thread realised cluster is post '79. Replaced sender as original not working, replacement also not working. Gauge and wiring work, gauge reads hot when touch wire to engine block. Any suggestions?

Check the temp sensor in the engine.

 

[45inCO]

I have a new to me 1966 FJ45 with what appears to be the original 1F engine, and I am trying to understand the gauge cluster in order to get my temperature and fuel gauge working. From reading through this excellent thread and others, it appears that my generation (2nd gen) of cluster should use a fuel sender with a built in bi-metallic voltage regulator and the longer style temperature sender with the stud on the top (which is what is installed). Whether my 55 year old cluster is still using the original gauges is another question, but the speedometer is the screw on cable type, so that is consistent.

Right now my fuel gauge reads zero or near zero all the time, and my temperature gauge reads backwards. When I start the engine, the temperature gauge moves all the way to hot and then as the engine warms up it moves back towards the middle. When running up a hill the gauge moves further towards cold - the first tick above cold.

Here is what I am seeing when I run some simple tests on the fuel gauge:

1. If I short the fuel sender to ground, the gauge moves to full (I un-short before it hits full so as not to burn it out).
2. If I replace the sender with a 110 ohm resistor, the gauge sits at about 1/2 Full, with a 200 ohm resistor it is about 1/8 full and with 50 ohm it is about full.
3. With the sender disconnected, I measure around 11.8V at the wires coming from the gauge to the sender.
4. The sender reads about 130 ohms empty, and 10 ohms full (I did the test a while ago so I may have this backwards), but does not seem to move the gauge needle.

And on the temperature gauge:

1. The sender is the stud on top type and measures ~40 ohms when cold and disconnected (~55F).
2. If I disconnect the sender, the needle on the gauge is all the way to the left (cold).
3. If I measure the voltage coming from gauge to the sender while disconnected it is ~11.8V.

Any thoughts on why my temperature gauge is working backwards? Based on the voltage measurements, there does not appear to be a voltage regulator built into the gauge as I am seeing the full ~12V at the sender, should there be one?

The fuel gauge may just be the wrong sender, but should I see ~12v at the sender wires with the sender disconnected, or should it be 7v?

Thanks in advance for any help. I will pull the cluster this weekend and poke around inside, but it would be good to be forearmed with what it should be doing.

 

[Drake2]

Great thread, thanks to the OP for getting it started!

 

[Living in the Past]

Haven't followed these thread but can tell the lights were replaced by gauges years before 69. Have a 9/64 FJ45 and 9/67 FJ40 that both have gauges. In the restore sticky in the 25 section on the finished FJ40 projects you will find Destin's 64 build. His has gauges. As far as I know the charge and oil lights were replaced by gauges at the same time. The generator being replaced by an alternator is when the lights when away. That was some time around 63/64.

 

[Searcher356]

Haven't followed these thread but can tell the lights were replaced by gauges years before 69. Have a 9/64 FJ45 and 9/67 FJ40 that both have gauges. In the restore sticky in the 25 section on the finished FJ40 projects you will find Destin's 64 build. His has gauges. As far as I know the charge and oil lights were replaced by gauges at the same time. The generator being replaced by an alternator is when the lights when away. That was some time around 63/64.

My 63 FJ45 had lights and a generator. VIN 3FJ45-131034.
I changed to gauges before I went to alternator. I believe the first OE ammeter was +/- 50A, then later +/- 30A when the trucks were built with alternators.
I changed the sending unit for the temp when I went from light to gauge.

 

[45inCO]

After some more experimenting - it turns out the gen 2 (ie pre 1972) temperature senders also have a bi-metallic voltage regulator inside the sender, like the fuel sender. I was testing this sender from SOR:

https://www.sor.com/sorimages/product/182-12A-big.jpg

When passing ~200mA of current through the sender, you see the characteristic on/off of the mechanical voltage regulator. The period of this seems to change with the temperature. So this is not actually a resistive temperature sender.

Maybe this was commonly known, but it was news to me. However none of this explains why my temperature gauge reads backwards. Maybe the gauge itself has been changed to a different generation?

 

[45inCO]

One more update on this saga - the reason my temperature gauge works backwards is that it is a later model (post - 9/72) gauge that some PO switched into the cluster on my '66 FJ45. There is no way this is ever going to work - the later model gauge expects a ~7v supply from the fuel gauge, which my early fuel gauge does not have. It also expects a resistive temperature sender, where the resistance of the sender decreases with increasing coolant temperature, my 1F (pre 9/72) temperature sender is actually a mechanical voltage regulator that decreases the voltage as the coolant temperature increases. This explains why early temperature gauges sit all the way to the right on 'H' when the vehicle is off and then the needle deflects to the left.

I am left with two choices, either find an early pre-72 temperature gauge (seems like a tough quest) or add a voltage regulator and post-72 temperature sender to work with my later temperature gauge. I will likely go with the later option - does anyone know if the auto parts store senders like the one below work with the later (2F) temperature gauges? I can't find a resistance spec.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ATM1434033

 

[John McVicker]

I actually think you have a good chance of finding a pre ‘72 temp gauge in MUD’s Classified/Wanted section. Might take a bit of time, but post up and see if you get lucky.