Builds Chicago builds a 40

[chicago]

One thing that I would recommend at this point is to take pictures of the split case disassembly as they come off. It has been a week or better since then, and things have gotten moved, or ive just second guessed on the order to the point that things sort of look the same and well....Im confused.

Also...the shop press makes life A TON EASIER! I wish that I had this from the beginning. That in itself would have saved a few days of grief.

Ill post up the completion after I figure out what that thing is.

HTH someone!

 

[chicago]

Of course now that Im writing this, and looking back it seems so elementary...

 

[EWheeler]

Would that be the same box as the Grand Wagoneer? You see those fairly often at P&P. That's what I got my Pitman arm off of. Say what you want about Jeeps but those battle wagons were as overbuilt as any Toyota.

The J20 box is not the same as the Wagoneer box. If you follow the link I posted, I posted pictures of the larger piston J20 box compared to a Mid 80's wagoneer box. I too used the pitman arm from the wagoneer box.

 

[rusty_tlc]

The J20 box is not the same as the Wagoneer box. If you follow the link I posted, I posted pictures of the larger piston J20 box compared to a Mid 80's wagoneer box. I too used the pitman arm from the wagoneer box.

none of the attached images are showing up. Woody mentioned that the image files would take a whole day to move to the new server.

 

[chicago]

So the t case is back together about 98%.
The rear output bearing adjusting shim is TOO THICK, so I cant get it to the right pre load. I got the rebuild kit from CCOT, and Im surprised that their kit doesnt come with new shims?
SOOOOO, I have to track down a set of shims for it.
So, for those of you to keep in mind, if youre rebuilding the split case, make sure that the your kit has the adjusting shims.
These go UNDER the rear bearing race in the rear bearing retainer.

ALSO, I talked with OrangeFJ45 who was able to clue me in on what that mysterious part was...Its an oil slinger that goes in the FRONT of the t case under the oil seal on the input shaft. There is NO MENTION of this part in the FSM, ANYWHERE! So watch out for it.

Cant seem to post pics right now with the server issues here, so Ill post em later.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Kieth-those shims do not come with any rebuild kit. There are 14 thicknesses and they cost $7 each.

The aftermarket gaskets are slightly thicker than OEM gaskets and that throws off the pre-load.

The good news is that I have a virtually complete set of shims. You have to trial and error it to find the right one , at least there was not a simple way that I could figure.

I'll send you the shim pack if you like and you can figure out what you need and replace what you use or booger up.

Let me know. I think I could find it and mail on Monday.

 

[chicago]

Kieth-those shims do not come with any rebuild kit. There are 14 thicknesses and they cost $7 each.

The aftermarket gaskets are slightly thicker than OEM gaskets and that throws off the pre-load.

The good news is that I have a virtually complete set of shims. You have to trial and error it to find the right one , at least there was not a simple way that I could figure.

I'll send you the shim pack if you like and you can figure out what you need and replace what you use or booger up.

Let me know. I think I could find it and mail on Monday.

PM sent!

Thanks a TON Andy!
I appreciate it.

 

[rusty_tlc]

PM sent!

Thanks a TON Andy!
I appreciate it.

Who would have guessed Andy would have those shims???

 

[orangefj45]

righton keith, glad i was able to help.

and for that "right stuff" you're gooping on there. i like it and use it but only on some applications. usually in the corners of the engine pil gaskets and such because it withstands even synthetic oils where some silicones won't.

however, on t-cases and transmissions i use loctite 518 anaerobic sealer, also known as gasket maker. only takes a small bead right on both sides of the gesket and works extremely well.

what you're doinf will work, but if you have to take this assy back apart, you're gonna hate yourself. it's gonna be a major bitch getting all of that sealer off along with the gasket. the 518 makes it a lot easier........

hth

georg


ps: post some pics of the completed gear train so we can come up with the right twin-stickkit for your split case. the only varibale will be where we located the shifter pivot and how. should'nt be a big deal.

 

[chicago]

righton keith, glad i was able to help.

and for that "right stuff" you're gooping on there. i like it and use it but only on some applications. usually in the corners of the engine pil gaskets and such because it withstands even synthetic oils where some silicones won't.

however, on t-cases and transmissions i use loctite 518 anaerobic sealer, also known as gasket maker. only takes a small bead right on both sides of the gesket and works extremely well.

what you're doinf will work, but if you have to take this assy back apart, you're gonna hate yourself. it's gonna be a major bitch getting all of that sealer off along with the gasket. the 518 makes it a lot easier........

hth

georg


ps: post some pics of the completed gear train so we can come up with the right twin-stickkit for your split case. the only varibale will be where we located the shifter pivot and how. should'nt be a big deal.

Thanks Georg!
There actually are no gaskets per se with the adapter, which is why I opted to OVER KILL the right stuff. I was thinking the same thing after I applied it that when I need to go back into the assembly, its gonna be a nightmare to get that crap off.

Glad you checked in, and here are the pics of the assembly if the server will allow me to post....

First pic is of the oil slinger location. If this is STILL wrong lemme know.
The next two are of the PS of the set up. The 203 seems to shift OKAY. Im hoping that when I get the split case output torqued down right it will be a little more consistent/ smoother. I need to press apply pressure to the output shaft (forward into the case) for it smooth out, and that is with the bearing retainer OFF. Also, Im only shifting with that little nub by hand.

BTW, when applying the torque converter and getting the trans mounted permanently...What needs to happen? IIRC, I need to fill the torque converter with some ATM fluid? Is there a gasket between the trans and the engine block? Should I put fluid in it (the trans) immediately? I rotated the trans output shaft, and it sounds as if some of the seals may be a bit dry (there is a squeak that sounds like dry rubber).

Thanks,

Keith

 

[orangefj45]

that's the proper slinger location but you have it in there backwards. a small magnet should help........;p the tabs need to go towards the front of the case. this little part helps keep the oil flowing thru the front bearing and keeps contaminants from settling in the nose cone in front of the bearing.

as for the auto, i usually put one quart of atf in the converter and then slide it into the pump. you'll have to add the fluid slowly as it will not just let you pour it intothe spout. the fluid needs to work it's way thru the vanes in the converter and the level will drop slowly.
make sure the converter is seated all the way in the pump. it should go on in three "steps" sinve there are 3 sets of splines that need to line up. simply slide the converter in, then spin it and it'll go in further. keep doing so until you get to the third set of splines which is actially the oil pump. there should be s discernable sound of the copnverter bottoming out in the pump. one easy way to tell if it's seated allthe way is to try to get your fingers between the converter and the trans case ( at the bottom of the converter along the trans pan ). another way to check is when you install the transmission to the engine itself ( no gasket there btw ). you should be able to mate the transmission housing to the block and the converter should still have room between itself and the flexplate. if not, then DO NOT force them together or you will break the pump drive. NEVER use the bell housing bolts to suck the transmission up to the engine block. that's a great way to crack a transmission housing. the converter should have to slide towards the flexplate by about 3/16" in order for the mounting pads to sit flushagainst the flexplate.
add 4 quarts of atf to the trans but no more. once the engine is started, immediatley add another 4 quarts and thenstart checking the fluid level, keeping the engine running.
hth

georg

 

[chicago]

If you're going to buy a new box, may as well get the larger piston box from the J20. See my advice above.

I posted some pics of the difference in size for the different boxes in this thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/136752-saginaw-twisted-spline.html#post5192066

Hey E wheeler!
The local autozone sells this for 114 buck with core, and 137 w/o core. Gonna order it toady if I have a chance.

Thanks for the tip on that! A LOT cheaper than I expected to find!

 

[boots4]

BTW, when applying the torque converter and getting the trans mounted permanently...What needs to happen? IIRC, I need to fill the torque converter with some ATM fluid? Is there a gasket between the trans and the engine block? Should I put fluid in it (the trans) immediately? I rotated the trans output shaft, and it sounds as if some of the seals may be a bit dry (there is a squeak that sounds like dry rubber).

Yes you need to fill the t.converter with ATF before you put it in. It takes some time to fill but I get 1 1/2qts in mine before I put it in, you should at least put 1 qt in it. Make sure the piolet on the t.converter is paint free and the hole on the flywheel is debris free. I coat them with a little grease to keep the rust away. When bolting up the t.converter to the flywheel do it evenly.

On my tranny there is a rubber o-ring that goes on my adapter that seals against the tranny when bolted together.

If you want to start your engine with the tranny hooked up then yes you'll need to fill the tranny so you don't burn up the pump.

EDIT: oops, didn't see the next page, looks like Orange already answered some questions.

 

[chicago]

that's the proper slinger location but you have it in there backwards. a small magnet should help........;p the tabs need to go towards the front of the case. this little part helps keep the oil flowing thru the front bearing and keeps contaminants from settling in the nose cone in front of the bearing.

as for the auto, i usually put one quart of atf in the converter and then slide it into the pump. you'll have to add the fluid slowly as it will not just let you pour it intothe spout. the fluid needs to work it's way thru the vanes in the converter and the level will drop slowly.
make sure the converter is seated all the way in the pump. it should go on in three "steps" sinve there are 3 sets of splines that need to line up. simply slide the converter in, then spin it and it'll go in further. keep doing so until you get to the third set of splines which is actially the oil pump. there should be s discernable sound of the copnverter bottoming out in the pump. one easy way to tell if it's seated allthe way is to try to get your fingers between the converter and the trans case ( at the bottom of the converter along the trans pan ). another way to check is when you install the transmission to the engine itself ( no gasket there btw ). you should be able to mate the transmission housing to the block and the converter should still have room between itself and the flexplate. if not, then DO NOT force them together or you will break the pump drive. NEVER use the bell housing bolts to suck the transmission up to the engine block. that's a great way to crack a transmission housing. the converter should have to slide towards the flexplate by about 3/16" in order for the mounting pads to sit flushagainst the flexplate.
add 4 quarts of atf to the trans but no more. once the engine is started, immediatley add another 4 quarts and thenstart checking the fluid level, keeping the engine running.
hth

georg

So just ONE quart into the converter?
Im planning on pulling the trans off today and get that set up and ready for final placement, but even the dry mount was a bit tight to fit.... Since we had line up the motor and trans and tacked the mounts in, I figure I can do the rest of the the drive train assembly in stages with the tub OFF the frame?
Roger on the oil slinger being backwards!!!! Ill get back to that...thankfully a MINOR detail.

A couple more questions for you Georg...
EGR block off and EVAP block off... Im not gonna need em per the smog refs directly...what to do to eliminate them from the motor?

 

[chicago]

Yes you need to fill the t.converter with ATF before you put it in. It takes some time to fill but I get 1 1/2qts in mine before I put it in, you should at least put 1 qt in it. Make sure the piolet on the t.converter is paint free and the hole on the flywheel is debris free. I coat them with a little grease to keep the rest away. When bolting up the t.converter to the flywheel do it evenly.

On my tranny there is a rubber o-ring that goes on my adapter that seals against the tranny when bolted together.

If you want to start your engine with the tranny hooked up then yes you'll need to fill the tranny so you don't burn up the pump.

EDIT: oops, didn't see the next page, looks like Orange already answered some questions.

Thanks boots...
you bring up another point that I didnt consider...is it better to mount the converter to the flywheel FIRST, or to the trans first?
Seems that itll be a bitch bolting the converter to the flywheel once IN the trans?!

 

[chicago]

AutoZone.com | | Steering Gear (Power Steering) | REMAN STEERING GEAR BOX

The autozone link to the 6529 PN from E wheeler!

 

[chicago]

Pretty cool youtube video on the torque converter install and mate to the motor...if anyone is interested?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFFIPyv2C_4

I was about to get mine mated up, until I was torquing the flex plate bolts...the LAST ONE stripped on the head and I couldnt get it torqued! GOD D@MN MOTHER F*CKER B*TCH F*&ING WH@$E!!!!
Yeah...NOT TOO HAPPY!

Hence the reason the rig is named Jezebel as its the feminine profanities that come out!

 

[orangefj45]

Thanks boots...
you bring up another point that I didnt consider...is it better to mount the converter to the flywheel FIRST, or to the trans first?
Seems that itll be a bitch bolting the converter to the flywheel once IN the trans?!

Did you read my reply above?????


The converter has to get installed onto the trans, NOT the flexplate. You need to get 3 sets of splines engaged to seat the converter all the way. No way in he'll your gonna do that by bolting it to the flexplate first.

One quart of ATF in the converter is more than enough.

 

[orangefj45]

Pretty cool youtube video on the torque converter install and mate to the motor...if anyone is interested?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFFIPyv2C_4

I was about to get mine mated up, until I was torquing the flex plate bolts...the LAST ONE stripped on the head and I couldnt get it torqued! GOD D@MN MOTHER F*CKER B*TCH F*&ING WH@$E!!!!
Yeah...NOT TOO HAPPY!

Hence the reason the rig is named Jezebel as its the feminine profanities that come out!

Not a bad video and it gets the point accross. Couple of corrections though:

1) that's not a flywheel; it's a flexplate. Flywheels are use with standard transmissions

2) jaming a converter into the flexplate will not lock up an engine; it'll break the pump gears or rotor everytime if it doesn't crack the trans case first.

3) the alignment dowels are a great idea and I use them all the time when installing a t-case onto a trans ( on the bench ) or when I install the backing plates, gaskets and spindles on a set of knuckles. However, it is extremely uncommon to have enough trans tunnel clearance to be able to use them when installing an auto onto zn engine already in a vehicle. Wishful thinking!!! But it works great out of the car or if there's no body on the frame.

Rant over.


Georg

 

[orangefj45]

Ps; that squeaking noise you're hearing when you turn the trans output is the rear sprag it's a one-way roller clutch mechanism and is supposed to make that noise so no problem there. But that is a good question and well worth noticing/asking.