Buffed out the pinstriping myself (1 Viewer)

[Driley]

I use one of theose porter cable buffers and they work extremely well. The only downside is that when you're done, you body feels really shaky for about an hour since the buffer has crazy vibrations. You can also use sand paper with it which is a nice bonus. Buffers can get you in trouble if your not careful with them especially with dark paint. Years ago, I had a mishap with a black 911. I was close to tears as experience got the best of me. I learned to start with a side panel or an area least noticable. Even with tons of experience, I always start far away from the hood. Then do the hood last.

Spike, make sure you are using the right size counter weights. I have 2 sets (4" & 6"). When using the brush attachments, I switch to the 4" counter weights. When using the foam pads (6" & 7.5") I switch back to the 6" counter weights. Also, make sure you have the pad on there perfectly straight. That can make the buffer want to jump out of your hand!

Maybe I am just used to the Porter Cable. I have used it for 4 years (~4 to 5 hours every weekend) and I really do not have problems with vibration.

Riley

 

[SpikeDogg]

Never thought about the xounter weights. I'll have to check on that. I only use it a couple times each year and I honestly feel as if I was using a jackhammer! Maybe we have different models. Not sure what mine is though.

 

[Driley]

A warning about random orbitals... They can burn through paint. They are definitely more gentle than direct drive units, but they can and will build up heat. If you are buffing a vehicle with a good clear coat, there should not be a problem, just use your head and be cautious.

My brother has a BMC Hooligan chopper and wanted me to try to get the swirl marks off the tank and rear fender. Every time his clothing brushes against them, it causes swirls and slight scratches. I started buffing on the tank and burned right through the black paint. We determined it had little to no clear coat. No more buffer until he gets it repainted. Also, stay away from pinstriping. There may not be any clear coat over them (ask me how I know...).

Riley

 

[Driley]

Never thought about the xounter weights. I'll have to check on that. I only use it a couple times each year and I honestly feel as if I was using a jackhammer! Maybe we have different models. Not sure what mine is though.

I have the 7424/7336 that Griot's used to sell. It came with the sanding attachments and the hook & loop (velcro) backing plate with the holes in it to vent heat. I believe it is called the 7336 once you replace the single use backing plate/pad with the hook & loop set up and the counter weights.

Here is an article about it: http://www.roadfly.com/magazine/7/porter_cable_buffer.1.html

Riley

 

[SpikeDogg]

I ordered mine through Griots so it probably is the same thing. Comes in a gray case. Compared to the pictures, mine is all black except for the middle part.

 

[SteveH]

I second the notion for using cheap orbital buffers that don't have enough guts to damage the paint. They will stall before they do any real damage, but are slow and shaky and will make your hands tingle after a while. Get one at Goodwill for $7 and you're not out much if you don't like it.

I used a pro-grade buffer on my FJ40 (which was too badly oxidized to use the cheapy buffer) and the spinning bonnet pad accidentally caught the outside rear view mirror and slammed it into the door, breaking the mirror glass. Ouch, but no biggie. Things to watch for, however.

Many paint shops sell quart bottles of liquid rubbing compound in different grits, and the 2000 grit is a good starting place for many non-clearcoat cars. It's enough to make a difference, but fine enough that it doesn't go too fast. I don't even use a power buffer on any curved or creased areas - just do those by hand. Practice on a beater car, first, if you can. The teenage neighbor kid might enjoy having his car buffed for free - or least part of it, until you get the hang of it.

Steve

 

[Driley]

I second the notion for using cheap orbital buffers that don't have enough guts to damage the paint. They will stall before they do any real damage, but are slow and shaky and will make your hands tingle after a while. Get one at Goodwill for $7 and you're not out much if you don't like it.

I used a pro-grade buffer on my FJ40 (which was too badly oxidized to use the cheapy buffer) and the spinning bonnet pad accidentally caught the outside rear view mirror and slammed it into the door, breaking the mirror glass. Ouch, but no biggie. Things to watch for, however.

Many paint shops sell quart bottles of liquid rubbing compound in different grits, and the 2000 grit is a good starting place for many non-clearcoat cars. It's enough to make a difference, but fine enough that it doesn't go too fast. I don't even use a power buffer on any curved or creased areas - just do those by hand. Practice on a beater car, first, if you can. The teenage neighbor kid might enjoy having his car buffed for free - or least part of it, until you get the hang of it.

Steve

A used buffer is a great idea. Just make sure you can still buy the accessories. A neighbor thought I would like another buffer and bought one at a yard sale. It was a 1970s Sears & Robuck 9" random orbital. It ran great, but you could not get pads for it any longer.

Just find a random orbital buffer with an adjustable speed setting. When I first started using the Porter Cable, I never ran it higher than the middle setting. Once I got used to it, I turned the speed up.

A stripped down Porter Cable can be had for about $100 and then buy the 6" counter weight and hook & loop backing plate. For less than $150.00 you will have a buffer that will last a long time.

Riley

 

[roncruiser]

Not being the original owner of my vehicle, I have always wondered about the current thickness of paint on the rig. When doing any paint detail, I always wonder how much of the clear coat is left. I'm sure it varies from one area to the next.

There are Paint Thickness Gauges out there: http://www.autopaintgage.com/
Anyone have one I can borrow for a few minutes???

 

[slinger5150]

A true orbital just mimics your hand in a offset vibrating motion. It's like applying wax with your hand only it doesn't have the voids your hand does. It's flat. They usually have about a 4 inch thick foam pad on them. Unless you're using some heavy grit rubbing compound, it would be hard to rub through paint. An actual buffer usually has a solid disc with no offset. Its basically a sanding wheel. Only difference is you can buy foam, wool and cotton pads for them. Some, like my Hitachi, have variable speed. That's one way to control swirl marks and burning through paint. The other way is both product used and pressure applied. Since there's no real padding you are basically applying solid pressure to the paint. You also need to constantly clean the pads. You're essentially pulling a thin layer of paint or clear coat off. This gets built up in the pad and needs to be removed. If its not, it will scratch the paint. For wool pads the make a tool that looks like boot spurs with a handle. This kicked the used up product out of the pad and fluffs up the pad. The critical area is your corners and fixtures. Corners are a prime area to burn paint off because its all of your pressure is being applied in that area. Also, when buffing around side mirrors and such, the pad can catch on something and really pull the buffer out of your hands. If you're not real experienced, stick with an orbital. Below are pictures of both a orbital which basically vibrates once pressure is applied and a buffer/polisher.

 

[roncruiser]

Did some generic research using Google. For the most part, base coats are 1 mil thick and clear coats are 2 mils thick.

Here's something I pulled off the some detailer site. Makes sense to me:

----------------------------------------------

"What a Detailer Should Know About Clearcoats

Although clear coats do provide additional protection, there is a limit as to how much clearcoat can be removed in the buffing or wet-sanding process without jeopardizing the long-term durability of the paint finish. When too much clear is removed by wet-sanding or buffing the problem is often not visible to the naked eye. In fact, the results must look fantastic. However, you can bet the UV protection has been dramatically reduce to the point that they color coat will be negatively affected by the sun and other factors.

For these reasons all car manufacturers now specify that the paint thickness be measured in 0.1mil, or 1/1000th of an inch before and after any wet sanding or buffing. If only 0.5 mils of clearcoat has been removed the integrity of the clearcoat is in danger. And, manufacturers could void a warranty if they know about this.

The following are the maximum allowable clearcoat reductions the major USA car manufacturers will allow: Chrysler – 0.5 mils; Ford – 0.3 mils; GM – 0.5 mils.

As a professional detailer you really should have a paint thickness gauge and it should be used on every car that you will be using a high speed buffer and compound on to correct a paint finish problem. In principle you owe it to the customer, and you owe it to yourself should you damage the paint, or have the customer come back at some later time with paint damage."

 

[on the rocks]

The Porter 7424 is by far one of the best investments you can make for your 10+ year old LC. It is amazing what you can do to your finish with one of these tools. You would have to be an idiot to burn your paint with one and one of the cheap buffers you find at SEARS are a waste of money. Also unless your into supporting the big 3M machine ditch their pads and go with the Meguires hook and loop they are about 1/3 the cost and most your local paint shops carry them. I also learned that the masking tape is a good investment for along the molding and trim.

 

[NaterGator]

Thanks alot Doug, this thread has motivated me to get out and clean the ash that has been depositing on my paint (florida fires) off, as well as a quick swirlbuster application, klasse aio, and p21s.

Lots of dual-action hand numbness in my future tonight. I always get this far and then get too worn out to clean and detail the interior. Anybody wanna come do mine?

 

[NaterGator]

The Porter 7424 is by far one of the best investments you can make for your 10+ year old LC. It is amazing what you can do to your finish with one of these tools. You would have to be an idiot to burn your paint with one and one of the cheap buffers you find at SEARS are a waste of money. Also unless your into supporting the big 3M machine ditch their pads and go with the Meguires hook and loop they are about 1/3 the cost and most your local paint shops carry them. I also learned that the masking tape is a good investment for along the molding and trim.

Indeed, painters tape saves trim like no other!

And x2 on the 7424 being superior to most other orbitals. Personally I've had luck with the sonus backing plate and pads myself, but I'm sure Meguires is also good. I gotta order more Zaino as well, nothing beats a few coats of zaino before you add on the carnuba wax, zaino lasts for-ev-er!

 

[4x4CPOSEADOG]

And x2 on the 7424 being superior to most other orbitals. Personally I've had luck with the sonus backing plate and pads myself, but I'm sure Meguires is also good. I gotta order more Zaino as well, nothing beats a few coats of zaino before you add on the carnuba wax, zaino lasts for-ev-er!

x3, I use Porter Cable 7424 when I clayed, waxed and polished all my vehicles. I also use the speed shine and best of show wax from www.griotsgarage.com. I like their product and really make the LX shines.

 

[slinger5150]

I used to detail cars for a living back in the day. At that time I'd buy product in 1 and 5 gallon containers from local detailing distributors. If you're waxing your vehicle every few months, which is about as long as a coat of wax will last, a gallon isn't as much as you think. Especially when most people have at least two cars sitting in the garage. Anyways, the gallon would usually run me $20-$30 depending on what product I was buying. Most of these guys will sell product to consumers. I just recently found a guy in Denver and bought some stuff from him. Cost me about $22 for a gallon of heavy duty cleaner and I picked up a few bonnets for the orbital as well at a couple of bucks a piece. Also got a gallon of car wash. You only need about a cap full/bucket. That'll last a long time. They also carry velcro pad systems for the buffers, which is what I use. The pads are washable and just velcro right onto the base pad. Try finding a distributor near you. If you figure you'll pay $10-$12 for a 16oz. bottle of wax at the store and can get a gallon of professional grade stuff for maybe the cost of 2 small bottles, you really can't beat it! Just my .02

 

[SpikeDogg]

If you don't have masking tape or don't want to take time putting it on, you can always use a towel to cover certain areas. May not work on body panels obviously but does help on your wipers. I always put towels over my wipers which eliminates the polish from spraying on them.
While we're on the cleaning subject, I hear that liquid laundry detergent works great in removing residue/wax from your paint. So if you're going to wax/buff, maybe give it a try. I've tried it and it leaves the paint squeeky clean and ready for wax.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Riley,

Actually I think you've got it backwards from my research. The buffers (simply rotate, have more power and speed) are much easier to damage paint with by an amateur than the orbitals (lower power, and do random circles). Buffers will easily generate enough pad speed to make serious heat and such. Just wanted to clarify and be sure we're on the same page.

Also, some have said don't bother with the cheap orbitals. Much of the point of this thread was to say that a cheap orbital worked perfectly so I disagree. I'm sure for those with detail experience they'd rather have a good one but that's the voice of experience speaking. I like the low power and idiot proofness of this approach and yet the lack of power did not make it slow or tedious. In fact, I was surprised how quickly I was standing there with everything put away. So to me I don't see a down side to a cheapy other than the good points about being sure the model you choose isn't an odd size where you cannot get replacement pads and such. Those are out there, so shop replacement pads before buying.

DougM

 

[Driley]

Riley,

Actually I think you've got it backwards from my research. The buffers (simply rotate, have more power and speed) are much easier to damage paint with by an amateur than the orbitals (lower power, and do random circles). Buffers will easily generate enough pad speed to make serious heat and such. Just wanted to clarify and be sure we're on the same page.

Also, some have said don't bother with the cheap orbitals. Much of the point of this thread was to say that a cheap orbital worked perfectly so I disagree. I'm sure for those with detail experience they'd rather have a good one but that's the voice of experience speaking. I like the low power and idiot proofness of this approach and yet the lack of power did not make it slow or tedious. In fact, I was surprised how quickly I was standing there with everything put away. So to me I don't see a down side to a cheapy other than the good points about being sure the model you choose isn't an odd size where you cannot get replacement pads and such. Those are out there, so shop replacement pads before buying.

DougM

Doug, I was saying that even with a random orbital, low speed buffer, you can and will burn through paint if you do not use it correctly and with caution. The direct drive units will build up much more heat than a random, but if you do not use a random correctly, it can do the same damage. Please point out the confusion I created. I went back and read my previous posts and thought that I was clear about that.

As far as cheap buffers, trial and error. I tried a couple of cheap, department store buffers and just did not like the results. Once I started doing other people's vehicles, I did some research and found the Porter Cable. I dropped $200 on the set up from Griot's, but could justify it by charging $200.00 per detail. I spend 2 days on a vehicle (usually Sat. & Sun.) and clean a car like I own it. I will never get rich doing this, but make enough to keep a nice selection of tools and chemicals handy to do my own vehicles.

Riley

 

[IronYuppy]

The clay comes in a small bar that you can shape out. Some clay comes with lubricant. I used the clay kit that Meguaiars puts out.

That bar is also great at removing over-spray. One time I was touching-up my sliders and didn't notice the breeze in the garage carried a nice black paint cloud over my freshly painted silver Mustang. It even cured overnight before I noticed.

One pass with the Meguaiar clay bar and the over-spray was gone without any effect on the Mustang's paint.

Good to know if you accidentally over-spray your body while touching-up sliders, bumpers, etc.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Riley,

Thanks for the clarification. I was looking at Griot's after your post. Man, they have some nice stuff! Think I'll start my Christmas list about 6 months early.....

DougM