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No, But I am willing to put a $2500 system on a $35,000 vehicle... I have an immaculate low millage 06.
Again I wont say money is not an issue but it is not the limiting factor.
Still trolling for some real life feedback!!!
Brake Upgrade
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No, But I am willing to put a $2500 system on a $35,000 vehicle... I have an immaculate low millage 06.
Again I wont say money is not an issue but it is not the limiting factor.
Still trolling for some real life feedback!!!
I may be speaking too soon, but I really doubt you're going to find many people on here with BBK's on their cruisers. There is really not very much you can do with this vehicle that requires it. Kind of sounds like you already know what you want.
I'm just trying to figure out why it is that you want such an aggressive system. Am I correct in assuming that you believe a bigger brake system will prolong your rotor/pad life? Or do you want the system because you eventually plan on driving 9,000 lbs up and down Mt. Everest on a daily basis?
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or anything, but the ONLY purpose in upgrading the brake system is heat dispersion. Any brake kit you put on your rig should be able to lock your wheels or engage the ABS on command.
I'm just trying to figure out why it is that you want such an aggressive system. Am I correct in assuming that you believe a bigger brake system will prolong your rotor/pad life? Or do you want the system because you eventually plan on driving 9,000 lbs up and down Mt. Everest on a daily basis?
I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or anything, but the ONLY purpose in upgrading the brake system is heat dispersion. Any brake kit you put on your rig should be able to lock your wheels or engage the ABS on command.
I had SP Performance Rotors installed on all 4 corners along with TRD pads. The LC has incredible stopping performance. After a 12000 miles back and forth over a mountain pass...the brake shop could not see any wear??? I put them on for the weight, steep mountain passes and in case I had to pull my enclosed trailer (use the Tundra) on occasion. Love them so far.
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Anyone try the EBC Green Stuff 6000 or 7000 brake pads?
A couple weeks later.....
I just heard a grinding at the rear of my hundy this weekend and confirmed that the rear pads were metal on metal. The grinding was killing me with every stop, but of course it is difficult to get your hands on these parts instantly. As it turned out in just a couple days I have destroyed one rotor and the other rotor is definitely worn.
I have DBA 4000 drilled and slotted rotors with Hawk pads, installed almost 2 years ago (35-40k miles).
So my assessment of the package - I really liked the stopping power and lack of fade. The lifespan is pathetic. I expected more than 30+k miles on a set of rear pads. A culprit contributing to the advanced wear is the little metal clips that hold the tabs on the brake pads. They were so tight, the brakes were not releasing from the rotor appropriately. Loose the clips.
I just picked up a set of Toyota pads (I think are Akebono) from the dealer for $100. As a matter of fact the new pads would not fit in with the metal clips at all. So tight that I needed a hammer and punch to get them apart again to remove the clips.
I had ordered another set of Hawks on line at DiscountBrakes. They claimed to be "in stock" but were not, and they didn't tell me that either, but charged the overnight delivery fee anyway. Waiting on my refund. Stay away from that company.
Now for new rotors, again
I just heard a grinding at the rear of my hundy this weekend and confirmed that the rear pads were metal on metal. The grinding was killing me with every stop, but of course it is difficult to get your hands on these parts instantly. As it turned out in just a couple days I have destroyed one rotor and the other rotor is definitely worn.
I have DBA 4000 drilled and slotted rotors with Hawk pads, installed almost 2 years ago (35-40k miles).
So my assessment of the package - I really liked the stopping power and lack of fade. The lifespan is pathetic. I expected more than 30+k miles on a set of rear pads. A culprit contributing to the advanced wear is the little metal clips that hold the tabs on the brake pads. They were so tight, the brakes were not releasing from the rotor appropriately. Loose the clips.
I just picked up a set of Toyota pads (I think are Akebono) from the dealer for $100. As a matter of fact the new pads would not fit in with the metal clips at all. So tight that I needed a hammer and punch to get them apart again to remove the clips.
I had ordered another set of Hawks on line at DiscountBrakes. They claimed to be "in stock" but were not, and they didn't tell me that either, but charged the overnight delivery fee anyway. Waiting on my refund. Stay away from that company.
Now for new rotors, again
Along with decent rotors and pads, my understanding is that new, braided lines make a big difference in brake feel.
Not that I've done it yet tho...
Not that I've done it yet tho...
Maybe I'm just lucky. Or my LC is still too young. But my pedal is the hardest of any vehicle I've ever known. I'll probably go stainless braid on the next brake job just cuz, but I'm not sure how it would change.
Nice ACD in your avatar by the way.
Nice ACD in your avatar by the way.
ok, so I may need to do a 180 on my opinion. yesterday, was on I-5 in heavy traffic doing 65ish in the middle lane when traffic came to an abrupt stop in my lane only (couldn't change lanes b/c of traffic). I was on the brakes hard to the point that I had bottomed out the pedal yet no ABS action was heard. The truck stopped, but it was because I had a large gap before the van in front of me, not because of snappy brakes. I heard the chatter of abs brakes skidding in the mitsu lancer that was following close behind me, but not my own. The vehicle was lightly loaded with 3 people and maybe 50 lbs of gear. It was on dry pavement, 65F. Vehicle and tires were completely warm after driving 20 miles already. Pads have good life and brake fluid looks new.
so... was this just because of flex in the lines? if so then it's time for some stainless braid. better pads? glazed rotors? or is this the best I can expect with the 34" tires? I know the ABS works because I occasionally hear/feel it on wet. Other than this one emergency stop everything works fine - no pulsation, easy to modulate, hard pedal.
so... was this just because of flex in the lines? if so then it's time for some stainless braid. better pads? glazed rotors? or is this the best I can expect with the 34" tires? I know the ABS works because I occasionally hear/feel it on wet. Other than this one emergency stop everything works fine - no pulsation, easy to modulate, hard pedal.
Dennis, It could be any number of things that would explain your symptom. Were the rotors dry or was it raining? What type of pads are you using? How much pad material is left? As the pad material wears the fluid level goes lower in the master reservoir. I'd at least inspect all your brake lines especially the soft/rubber sections for wear. If your lines are A-OK SS lines aren't going to correct your problem; the difference they make is rather subtle on our rigs. I assume you have the proper level of brake fluid? Last time the fluid was completely bled and renewed?
My '99 has always needed two pumps of the brake pedal to get what I consider proper firm pedal. No bleeding, rotors, pads, SS lines have helped; others have complained about the same. I have the parts on hand to rebuild the HBB per Skidoo's post. I've never owned a vehicle that exhibited this symptom. And then after the rebuild, assuming it doesn't need a whole new HBB, take it to Toyota for the final bleed with their SST to see if I can eliminate the issue (I've never taken it to Toyota for a brake bleed).
The other symptom I've experienced, and its no fun I can tell you, is on steep uphill climbs when loss of traction (because I happened to have the KK in tow) forced me to back down I've had the damn brake pedal go all the way to the floor! And that's with the proper level of brake fluid in the MC.
The brakes on the 100-Series, at least my '99, may be better than the 80-Series but IMO they leave alot to be desired.
My '99 has always needed two pumps of the brake pedal to get what I consider proper firm pedal. No bleeding, rotors, pads, SS lines have helped; others have complained about the same. I have the parts on hand to rebuild the HBB per Skidoo's post. I've never owned a vehicle that exhibited this symptom. And then after the rebuild, assuming it doesn't need a whole new HBB, take it to Toyota for the final bleed with their SST to see if I can eliminate the issue (I've never taken it to Toyota for a brake bleed).
The other symptom I've experienced, and its no fun I can tell you, is on steep uphill climbs when loss of traction (because I happened to have the KK in tow) forced me to back down I've had the damn brake pedal go all the way to the floor! And that's with the proper level of brake fluid in the MC.
The brakes on the 100-Series, at least my '99, may be better than the 80-Series but IMO they leave alot to be desired.
OregonLC said:
I wish I could say that my experience is very different from this, but I can't. In my experience the brakes seem quite weak. I've had a similar situation on a dry road where the brakes seemed to be unable to get the tires to lock and engage abs. A rather unnerving feeling for sure...
I had an Alcon BBK on my Audi allroad Quattro. A 4300 pound "car" not the LC. I dont think it's a bad idea to upgrade brakes on the LC if the money isnt a problem - this is a safety and piece of mind thing. The performance of the BBK really was pedal feel and feedback. Being able to precisely modulate and control wheel rotation. I could induce ABS with the stock Audi brakes no problem so in terms of ultimate stopping power you are not really buying much with a BBK, however with the BBK you are getting the ability to get the same stopping power repeatedly which if you drive in severe conditions like towing, mountain passes etc can be a huge benefit. I say do it.
I have stock brakes on my 2000 LC and at 141k I only recently feel some warpage and I'm looking to refresh my brakes. At this point I will simply replace everything with new OEM parts - I'm satisfied with the performance of these stock brakes. One aspect I would encourage you to look at on the high mileage LC's we have is the calipers... make sure they are performing properly. 12 years and 141k may mean time to rebuild them.
I have stock brakes on my 2000 LC and at 141k I only recently feel some warpage and I'm looking to refresh my brakes. At this point I will simply replace everything with new OEM parts - I'm satisfied with the performance of these stock brakes. One aspect I would encourage you to look at on the high mileage LC's we have is the calipers... make sure they are performing properly. 12 years and 141k may mean time to rebuild them.
I've got to say I replaced my stock rotors around 140k and the entire system seemed pretty immaculate for how old it was. I'm pretty impressed with the condition of the LC overall at 150k.
RobRed said:
would a bbk also require master cylinder upgrade?
i actually have my brake rebuild kits up front and rear but need to get around to rebuilding them. anyone know of a good writeup and how easy/hard it is to rebuild? looks like just taking the calipers apart, cleaning, and replacing all the rubber parts? anything to watch ou for or different abou our calipers?
Dan, the weather conditions were completely dry at the time. To my knowledge, the pads are OEM Toyota and were recent within the last 7k miles or so.
My thought with the lines is that flex in the system must be limiting sufficient force getting to the pads to induce pending lockup and therefore ABS activation. Are you able to get ABS to activate on dry pavement?
My next thought was to go to different pad material.
The pedal is very firm at idle, doesn't feel like there's any air in the systems at all.
I can see where larger brakes would help with fade, but I would have thought our 4-pot calipers could develop enough force to lock it up on a single stop!
I can get the ABS to function on dry pavement if there is some sand/gravel otherwise I don't think with my current MT/R Kevlar's I can get ABS/tires to skid on dry clean concrete.
Remember the tire does all the actual stopping at the pavement...so the tire choice plays apart too.
I am really interested in the Stoptech 355mm rotor/big brake kit for the fronts but I'd like to know if the proportioning would be screwed up as a result. The ART plus Porterfield carbon/kevlar pads really get me significantly more peak braking power (and incredible rotor longevity) but it comes at the expense of modulation. Larger rotors (with matching calipers), at least in theory, would get both better modulation with more peak braking power.
But damn...can somebody else step off this high dive first!
Remember the tire does all the actual stopping at the pavement...so the tire choice plays apart too.
I am really interested in the Stoptech 355mm rotor/big brake kit for the fronts but I'd like to know if the proportioning would be screwed up as a result. The ART plus Porterfield carbon/kevlar pads really get me significantly more peak braking power (and incredible rotor longevity) but it comes at the expense of modulation. Larger rotors (with matching calipers), at least in theory, would get both better modulation with more peak braking power.
But damn...can somebody else step off this high dive first!
You need to check for corrosion of caliper bores and pistions, if they are, replace. Otherwise like you say, and the FSM write up is best to follow. Think the 2004 FSM is available for free download somewhere on the net, seen posts here. 04 FSM should be usable for any year on this job.
Interms of BBK upgrades the stock master should be able to handle it - the LC master is pretty stout.
I havent done any brakes on the LC yet but in the past rebuild kits have always been straight forward.
I can get the ABS to function on dry pavement if there is some sand/gravel otherwise I don't think with my current MT/R Kevlar's I can get ABS/tires to skid on dry clean concrete.
Remember the tire does all the actual stopping at the pavement...so the tire choice plays apart too.
I am really interested in the Stoptech 355mm rotor/big brake kit for the fronts but I'd like to know if the proportioning would be screwed up as a result. The ART plus Porterfield carbon/kevlar pads really get me significantly more peak braking power (and incredible rotor longevity) but it comes at the expense of modulation. Larger rotors (with matching calipers), at least in theory, would get both better modulation with more peak braking power.
But damn...can somebody else step off this high dive first!
I cant say much positive about Stop Tech (Audi experience).
One thing no one has talked about is using the stock calipers, which are pretty stout, and larger rotors plus pads.
The ABS controller will handle the proportioning. One thing about the LC is the larger rear brakes that are already biased rear. You shouldn't feel much in that regard.
I take it you've had negative experiences with Stop Tech? I have zero experience with them, one way or the other, BTW.
Fortunately for me I went Alcon, however I know plenty of folks that wish they didn't go stop tech. If I were going to do this again I would put my own kit together - pull together Cayenne brakes (6p brembo) or find something that is essentially over the counter with easy parts replacements.
