Blueprint Engines or other Crate Motor Supplier?

Drake2

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Well, seems like the cost to rebuild my carbureted Chevy 400 small block would be about $5800 if the shop does not run into any weird issues. 90 day warranty. I am thinking of changing plans and going with a BluePrint Engines 350 small block Sniper EFI crate motor ($7000). Anyone have other crate motor supplier recommendations:

These are the specs of the 350 crate motor I am considering:

  • HP & Torque: 341 HP / 371 FT LBS
    Compression Ratio: 9.0:1
    Aluminum Heads
    Hydraulic Roller Cam
    Cast Iron Crankshaft
    Hypereutectic Pistons

BLOCK:​

  • NEW BluePrint Cast Iron Block
    Manufactured and Machined in the USA!
    4-Bolt Main
    4.000" Bore
    1-Piece Rear Main Seal
    Mech fuel pump provision: Yes
    Passenger Side Dipstick
  • Drilled and tapped for clutch linkage

ROTATING ASSEMBLY:​

  • Cast Iron Crankshaft
    3.480" Stroke
    Forged 5.700" connecting rods
    Hypereutectic pistons
    Internal Front/ External Rear engine balance

CYLINDER HEADS:​

  • BluePrint Aluminum Cylinder Heads - H8002K
    64cc chamber
    2.02" intake/1.60" exhaust valves
    195cc intake/75cc exhaust runners

CAM SPECS:​

  • Cam Type: Roller
    .477 Intake .471 Exhaust
    202 Intake / 212 Exhaust duration
    @ .050 - 115 degree lobe separation

IGNITION TIMING:​

  • 32 Degrees Total at 3500 RPM

ALSO INCLUDES:​

  • Valve covers
    Oil pan
  • Harmonic Balancer
  • Spark plugs and Wires
    Timing cover
  • Aluminum intake
  • Waterneck and Thermostat
    HEI distributor
    EFI system
    Dyno test results shipped with engine
  • Front Accessory Drive with Water Pump, A/C Compressor, Alternator, and Power Steering Pump (Does not fit Corvette)

WARRANTY:​

  • 30 month / 50,000 mile
Engine picture shows carbureted but it would have Sniper EFI kit installed

BP350CTCF_1903x.png


BP350BP350CTCK_8fe2f9cc-914e-4a3d-9fda-266f5de81dcc_1903x.jpg
 
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Skreddy

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I have no personal experience with Blueprint, ATK, or any other crate engine supplier. To me, $7000 for a small block crate seems exorbitant. I could get a 600+ hp big block from Vortecpro for that kind of money and he’s considered one of the best.
I would look for another machine shop or even look at summit/jegs. I see an ATK 383 crate for $4400. Chevrolet also still offers crate engines with good warranty as well.
 

Drake2

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I have no personal experience with Blueprint, ATK, or any other crate engine supplier. To me, $7000 for a small block crate seems exorbitant. I could get a 600+ hp big block from Vortecpro for that kind of money and he’s considered one of the best.
I would look for another machine shop or even look at summit/jegs. I see an ATK 383 crate for $4400. Chevrolet also still offers crate engines with good warranty as well.
I will call ATK for more details and thanks for mentioning them as I had not heard of them before.

Drake
 

cruisermatt

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$5800 to rebuild a SBC? Are they casting a new block from scratch in the backyard?

If youre willing to drop that much coin on an engine why not get a nice low mileage Gen 4 6.2, a Terminator X, you'd still come out well ahead money wise and have a way nicer setup that doesn't use cork gaskets or a distributor :meh:

The day of the crate 350 is over

Oh yeah, and $30 plates from Amazon will bolt it up to your existing mounts :meh:
 

Drake2

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$5800 to rebuild a SBC? Are they casting a new block from scratch in the backyard?

If youre willing to drop that much coin on an engine why not get a nice low mileage Gen 4 6.2, a Terminator X, you'd still come out well ahead money wise and have a way nicer setup that doesn't use cork gaskets or a distributor :meh:

The day of the crate 350 is over

Oh yeah, and $30 plates from Amazon will bolt it up to your existing mounts :meh:
Actually it's not a rebuild. It's all new and yes they are casting a brand new block here in the USA (not sure if it's in a backyard or not ;)). Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately I have no idea and probably even less than that, if that's possible, about those newer engines and what is a Terminator X? I looked up Vortec 6200 L92 if that is what you are talking about. Looked like a mile of wiring harness and I assume a ton of sensors, electronics, and computers. Only one little computer and one O2 sensor for the Sniper EFI IIRC. I need to keep it simple and reliable while keeping in mind that electrical & wiring are my enemies (I cant begin to tell you how much I despise wiring and electrical). I recognize everything on an old school crate 350 and can probably access everything on it on the side of the road if necessary. Besides the engine needs to connect to my TH400 auto (old school and no OD) which connects to the NP205 transfer case (more old school). You'd be hard pressed to break the TH400 or the NP205. Most of the driving 40's I have had over the last 30 years have either been the 2F or an old school carb fed 350. Basically I just have no clue about the newer stuff and am probably too old to start learning it.

Drake
 

cruisermatt

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Actually it's not a rebuild. It's all new and yes they are casting a brand new block here in the USA (not sure if it's in a backyard or not ;)). Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately I have no idea and probably even less than that, if that's possible, about those newer engines and what is a Terminator X? I looked up Vortec 6200 L92 if that is what you are talking about. Looked like a mile of wiring harness and I assume a ton of sensors, electronics, and computers. Only one little computer and one O2 sensor for the Sniper EFI IIRC. I need to keep it simple and reliable while keeping in mind that electrical & wiring are my enemies (I cant begin to tell you how much I despise wiring and electrical). I recognize everything on an old school crate 350 and can probably access everything on it on the side of the road if necessary. Besides the engine needs to connect to my TH400 auto (old school and no OD) which connects to the NP205 transfer case (more old school). You'd be hard pressed to break the TH400 or the NP205. Most of the driving 40's I have had over the last 30 years have either been the 2F or an old school carb fed 350. Basically I just have no clue about the newer stuff and am probably too old to start learning it.

Drake

I was joking in reference to the rebuild cost on your original 400.

It’s all super easy. It all just plugs in.. Its not any more sensors or data then a Sniper, its the same software even, just has the injectors at the intake ports where they belong. Theres two battery connections and two relays you’ll have to set up. Just read the instructions and you’ll be fine!
And yes, your th400 will work fine with a $25 converter snout spacer from Amazon.

If my 80 year old neighbor can do it with zero prior EFI experience …

I don’t think you realize how much better the newer engines are. The basic truck motor is like a factory race engine compared to even a really nice SBC. All the gaskets are reusable. Everything is siamese. The intake is super light. Best part is zero RTV or sealants.

Also, a relevant meme. :grinpimp:


20F0C085-A799-4AC2-91BD-BE229F259B53.jpeg
 

EWheeler

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Actually it's not a rebuild. It's all new and yes they are casting a brand new block here in the USA (not sure if it's in a backyard or not ;)). Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately I have no idea and probably even less than that, if that's possible, about those newer engines and what is a Terminator X? I looked up Vortec 6200 L92 if that is what you are talking about. Looked like a mile of wiring harness and I assume a ton of sensors, electronics, and computers. Only one little computer and one O2 sensor for the Sniper EFI IIRC. I need to keep it simple and reliable while keeping in mind that electrical & wiring are my enemies (I cant begin to tell you how much I despise wiring and electrical). I recognize everything on an old school crate 350 and can probably access everything on it on the side of the road if necessary. Besides the engine needs to connect to my TH400 auto (old school and no OD) which connects to the NP205 transfer case (more old school). You'd be hard pressed to break the TH400 or the NP205. Most of the driving 40's I have had over the last 30 years have either been the 2F or an old school carb fed 350. Basically I just have no clue about the newer stuff and am probably too old to start learning it.

Drake

I've dumped thousands into a stroked vortec 454 rebuild (489ci engine now) only to have the same old dog of an engine, with a bit more torque and a nice sounding lope. I should have listened to those telling me the newer technology in the 8.1 was far and beyond the older vortec architecture and pursued a motor swap, or just went with a remanned stock engine swap. So, I know what spending good money on bad ideas is all about and results in. You will be so happy if you drop a crate 4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2 in instead of spending $7k on an old crappy SBC. Even a high mileage junkyard motor will likely make you happy versus a SBC platform. You can get an ECM with a standalone harness, which means that the ECM does not need ANY input from your transmission for operation.

Two years ago I sold a perfectly good LS1, with standalone harness, fuel pump, & ECM for $4k (i replaced it with a stroked LS3 that I got as a complete running plug & play package for $9k). I'm sure a similar or better deal can be found. If you get a good harness, the only wiring you need to do is:

-power from battery
-grounds
-power to fuel pump
-signal wire to tach
-check engine light
-power to electric fan(s) if you use them

everything else is literally plug & play.\


IF you are DEAD set on a SBC platform, @DangerNoodle is selling a basically new 383 stroker....
 

DangerNoodle

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I've dumped thousands into a stroked vortec 454 rebuild (489ci engine now) only to have the same old dog of an engine, with a bit more torque and a nice sounding lope. I should have listened to those telling me the newer technology in the 8.1 was far and beyond the older vortec architecture and pursued a motor swap, or just went with a remanned stock engine swap. So, I know what spending good money on bad ideas is all about and results in. You will be so happy if you drop a crate 4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2 in instead of spending $7k on an old crappy SBC. Even a high mileage junkyard motor will likely make you happy versus a SBC platform. You can get an ECM with a standalone harness, which means that the ECM does not need ANY input from your transmission for operation.

Two years ago I sold a perfectly good LS1, with standalone harness, fuel pump, & ECM for $4k (i replaced it with a stroked LS3 that I got as a complete running plug & play package for $9k). I'm sure a similar or better deal can be found. If you get a good harness, the only wiring you need to do is:

-power from battery
-grounds
-power to fuel pump
-signal wire to tach
-check engine light
-power to electric fan(s) if you use them

everything else is literally plug & play.\


IF you are DEAD set on a SBC platform, @DangerNoodle is selling a basically new 383 stroker....

Ha, you had pretty much the same experience as me. Matt told me the same info, and I should have listened. It would have been cheaper for me to go 5.3 / 6.2 -> auto. Honestly, I love my 383. Tons of power, amazing torque curve, sounds nice, was super simple to wire, but my 40 is just too short for the drivetrain I have in it.

Also, I'm getting rid of everything if I can, radiator and support, fuel pump, hydramat, headers, exhaust, entire hyperspark and sniper setup, I'll even give you my Dakoda Digital -> Sniper bim if you are running one. Literally a drop in package for a 40.
 
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EWheeler

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Ha, you had pretty much the same experience as me. Matt told me the same info, and I should have listened. It would have been cheaper for me to go 5.3 / 6.2 -> auto. Honestly, I love my 383. Tons of power, amazing torque curve, sounds nice, was super simple to wire, but my 40 is just too short for the drivetrain I have in it.
You can bolt a shorter drivetrain right up to that 383.....

Someone (@Drake2 ) will be getting a nice setup if they decide to pick up your drivetrain !!! hahaha
 

DangerNoodle

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You can bolt a shorter drivetrain right up to that 383.....

Someone (@Drake2 ) will be getting a nice setup if they decide to pick up your drivetrain !!! hahaha

I know, but I can get a really good price on an R 2.8... If someone doesn't want it, I'll probably stick a 700r4 and a 3:1 split case I have lying around behind it.
 

Drake2

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I've dumped thousands into a stroked vortec 454 rebuild (489ci engine now) only to have the same old dog of an engine, with a bit more torque and a nice sounding lope. I should have listened to those telling me the newer technology in the 8.1 was far and beyond the older vortec architecture and pursued a motor swap, or just went with a remanned stock engine swap. So, I know what spending good money on bad ideas is all about and results in. You will be so happy if you drop a crate 4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2 in instead of spending $7k on an old crappy SBC. Even a high mileage junkyard motor will likely make you happy versus a SBC platform. You can get an ECM with a standalone harness, which means that the ECM does not need ANY input from your transmission for operation.

Two years ago I sold a perfectly good LS1, with standalone harness, fuel pump, & ECM for $4k (i replaced it with a stroked LS3 that I got as a complete running plug & play package for $9k). I'm sure a similar or better deal can be found. If you get a good harness, the only wiring you need to do is:

-power from battery
-grounds
-power to fuel pump
-signal wire to tach
-check engine light
-power to electric fan(s) if you use them

everything else is literally plug & play.\


IF you are DEAD set on a SBC platform, @DangerNoodle is selling a basically new 383 stroker....
You guys are killing me but you may be right :hmm:. I will look into the LS option. A friend of mine owns a salvage yard that works with newer vehicles. Let's see what the LS option cost looks like. Help me out with some specifics. What should I have him locate for me? LS1, LS2, LS3, etc. Can it come from a car or truck platform and what mileage would be considered too high to bother with? Should it come with the harness, ecm, etc or is that standalone harness a different purchase?

Thanks
 

StinkyPig

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@Drake2
I recently purchased a 383 with a Sniper from BluePrint for a C10 project. The engine has been good and the service has been...ok.
I purchased a transmission from them as well and they use an outside vendor...3 trannys later and its good. But it was a struggle and expensive on the time and labor side of things.

I've also gone the LS route in a number of FJ's. Its not easier or faster to install. But yes, the result is much better.
 

EWheeler

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You guys are killing me but you may be right :hmm:. I will look into the LS option. A friend of mine owns a salvage yard that works with newer vehicles. Let's see what the LS option cost looks like. Help me out with some specifics. What should I have him locate for me? LS1, LS2, LS3, etc. Can it come from a car or truck platform and what mileage would be considered too high to bother with? Should it come with the harness, ecm, etc or is that standalone harness a different purchase?

Thanks

@cruisermatt Is a better source for info as he has actually done these swaps in a 40 before. All my V8 experience is in tube frame sand cars....

You don't need and LS. A true LS engine is an aluminum block, which you don't need. An Iron block engine will be just fine and can be had much cheaper. There are so many different variations and displacement on these engines, I can't really say what "model" you should be after. I know you want something that does not have DOD - displacement on demand, or VVT - variable valve timing. I think there are ways to delete this junk, but it's just easier to get an engine without the junk to begin with. You want the engine & ALL accessories attached, and the ECM. Easier to just buy a standalone harness than go through the trouble of getting what you need out of a factory harness, in my opinion. Too much room for error that would have you chasing your tail. I think I paid $700 for my standalone harness, I know there are companies out there selling for $450-$500 with good reviews.
 
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Well, seems like the cost to rebuild my carbureted Chevy 400 small block would be about $5800 if the shop does not run into any weird issues. 90 day warranty. I am thinking of changing plans and going with a BluePrint Engines 350 small block Sniper EFI crate motor ($7000). Anyone have other crate motor supplier recommendations:

These are the specs of the 350 crate motor I am considering:

  • HP & Torque: 341 HP / 371 FT LBS
    Compression Ratio: 9.0:1
    Aluminum Heads
    Hydraulic Roller Cam
    Cast Iron Crankshaft
    Hypereutectic Pistons

BLOCK:​

  • NEW BluePrint Cast Iron Block
    Manufactured and Machined in the USA!
    4-Bolt Main
    4.000" Bore
    1-Piece Rear Main Seal
    Mech fuel pump provision: Yes
    Passenger Side Dipstick
  • Drilled and tapped for clutch linkage

ROTATING ASSEMBLY:​

  • Cast Iron Crankshaft
    3.480" Stroke
    Forged 5.700" connecting rods
    Hypereutectic pistons
    Internal Front/ External Rear engine balance

CYLINDER HEADS:​

  • BluePrint Aluminum Cylinder Heads - H8002K
    64cc chamber
    2.02" intake/1.60" exhaust valves
    195cc intake/75cc exhaust runners

CAM SPECS:​

  • Cam Type: Roller
    .477 Intake .471 Exhaust
    202 Intake / 212 Exhaust duration
    @ .050 - 115 degree lobe separation

IGNITION TIMING:​

  • 32 Degrees Total at 3500 RPM

ALSO INCLUDES:​

  • Valve covers
    Oil pan
  • Harmonic Balancer
  • Spark plugs and Wires
    Timing cover
  • Aluminum intake
  • Waterneck and Thermostat
    HEI distributor
    EFI system
    Dyno test results shipped with engine
  • Front Accessory Drive with Water Pump, A/C Compressor, Alternator, and Power Steering Pump (Does not fit Corvette)

WARRANTY:​

  • 30 month / 50,000 mile
Engine picture shows carbureted but it would have Sniper EFI kit installed

View attachment 2865552

View attachment 2865553
I’d go directly to GM $3750:

A friend bought a 350, 290 hp crate from GM a few years back for less than 2k. She then bolted up a 6 pack to the top of it. It was for a 1970 California speed shop ‘26 Ford 2 door coupe… so an LS motor didn’t seem quite right and there was absolutely no space to spare.

My first 350 was $300 and it lasted 21 years… and my current $300 for a 4 bolt main with 72k miles. The valve train was a beautiful golden colour after a quick wipe with a towel. I don’t have bragging rights on how much money I spent… but it’ll get me there and back for the next 25 years.
 
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M1A1cruiser

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@Drake2,

I realize you said you're not terribly interested in the newer engines - though I see the thread evolving as I type.

I'll just say that I had good luck with a salvaged/rebuilt LM7 5.3L V8 from BD Turnkey (no affiliation other than as a past customer). Granted, I was putting it into a 60. But it was my first engine swap and went pretty easily. There's plenty of documentation (my own, but others are probably better) on MUD and the electronics really aren't bad as you should be able to get a complete unit. Engine mounts, cooling, fuel delivery to be addressed, but you shouldn't have to worry about the electronics beyond providing power to the ECU. I'm not a wiring expert, and was able to do this on a learn-as-you-go project.

I don't have a dog in the fight, can't comment on what's "better" than another, and I'm currently in diesel world where as long as the glow plugs are warm and there's fuel getting there it'll run, so I can appreciate being EMP-proof! But I offer this as a 'don't limit yourself' comment.

HTH. Regards, Travis.-
 

cruisermatt

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You guys are killing me but you may be right :hmm:. I will look into the LS option. A friend of mine owns a salvage yard that works with newer vehicles. Let's see what the LS option cost looks like. Help me out with some specifics. What should I have him locate for me? LS1, LS2, LS3, etc. Can it come from a car or truck platform and what mileage would be considered too high to bother with? Should it come with the harness, ecm, etc or is that standalone harness a different purchase?

Thanks

All the info is out there already. But my short answer is.
If you’re willing to spend $5-7k, get yourself a nice COMPLETE LY6 or L96 (iron block 6.0) or L92 (aluminum Block 6.2) in the $2500-3k range, and spend then $1400 or so on a Terminator X Max.
And $250 GM muscle car oil pan kit.

The major “turnkey” suppliers are not worth the extra cost for what you get in my opinion.
 

EWheeler

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All the info is out there already. But my short answer is.
If you’re willing to spend $5-7k, get yourself a nice COMPLETE LY6 or L96 (iron block 6.0) or L92 (aluminum Block 6.2) in the $2500-3k range, and spend then $1400 or so on a Terminator X Max.
And $250 GM muscle car oil pan kit.

The major “turnkey” suppliers are not worth the extra cost for what you get in my opinion.
@Drake2

I've not used the terminator stuff, but looking at the kit that matt suggests, it seems like an incredibly good value. ECM & harness in one package as a plug & play kit, it's a no brainer. Just need to make sure to order the correct kit for you engine. The early engines have a 24x reluctor wheel, and the later engines have a 58x reluctor wheel on the front of the crank for timing signal. Gotta match the ecm to the reluctor wheel.
 

cruisermatt

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It has a built in wideband too which is normally $200.

A plug and play standalone that can do drive by wire, auto transmission control, a touchscreen controller and includes a wideband for less then $1500 is a steal.

Ive installed about a half dozen of them theyre awesome
 

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